Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I believe ESOL kids do get pullouts. But they are in the classroom most of the time. How would FCPS consistently stratify learners in a way that doesn't segregate them based on english ability?

Why do we segregate based on math ability? Isn't AAP segregating those with different academic strengths and needs? Why does it make a difference when it's language? Just leaving them in the classroom with non-ESOL isn't serving either group to the best of our ability.

Math ability isnt a protected class.

Is language?

No but national origin is and discrimination based on language has been equated to discrimination based on national origin

Equated by whom? What statute? What Supreme Court case? "Equated" by FCPS is all I can see.

Intentionally grouping students into classes for no rational reason other than national origin would be unlawful. Grouping students by ability is not unlawful, regardless of how it shakes out. Yes, you might fund that grouping students by English-language proficiency results in American-born students grouped in with Indian-born and Nigerian-born students, because each of those countries speaks English, while other groups of students who have less of a grasp on the English language are grouped together. So what? That's not unlawful.

What seems to be missing here is that without basic grasp of the english language teachers can't determine what their level of content knowledge is in each subject. So how would they effectively and legally group them?

Even if schools translated every written material into all languages, the kid would still have to be grouped with like-knowledged kids ... And the instruction would still be in english... Leading them right back to where we started. The teacher speaks English and the kid doesn't so they can't perform.

There's no problem with "right back to where we started." Kids who cannot speak/read/understand English are necessarily going to need to be in remedial/less challenging classes, because they'll be doing the work of learning the basics of English as they also tackle some substantive learning (history, science, literature) in that "new" language for them. That sounds pretty challenging and it sounds like they will certainly be learning key skills and improving. And that's exactly what they, and all of us, should expect from school.

We are a nation with a dominant language, like every other nation. Here, our language is English. We cannot throw non-English speakers/readers, or weak English speakers/readers, in with children who are fluent with the language, maybe even advanced, and who need to be challenged with the substantive information (the history, science, literature, etc.) that they are reading in English.

People are making it so complicated because they're afraid someone will call them a racist. Clown world.

Anonymous wrote:Will FCPS get a new Superintendent next year, or if
Brabrand's contract is renewed, will he accept the position? Will the SB continue to immerse themselves in the day-to-day operations and dictate how to run FCPS?

Maybe change the SB composition to 50% men instead of 0%, and there will be less focus on feelings. It's worth a try at least.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In a couple years, this will have been a blip. The same families, students, and teachers will be here. There's plenty of complaining on this board, that's what it's for. But while FCPS is (and has been) a bit soft in the ES area, the MS and HS are very good.

FCPS HS teacher. After we go back to normal, only the teachers and staff slightly less useful than a sack of hair will still be around. Yes, there are plenty of those, so you'll be stuck with many of the same teachers. The ones with actual qualifications are over FCPS and teaching, and will be applying to other, better-paying jobs. The families and students will remain the same. Those with resources will supplement the crap curriculum and their kids will go to good colleges. Kids who are average and lower middle class and down will be ignored. FCPS leadership will continue to tout itself as a world class schools system. Life will go on.

I can't speak for ES and MS, but I have watched my highly rated high school go from academics-focused to feelings-focused. I'm a proponent of self care and mental health, but for admin to encourage an end of year party in lieu of ANYTHING that demonstrates your learning? Come on.

Don't forget sports, the crown and jewel of high school achievement.

So what's the solution besides venting on this forum? I'm not being snarky. What can be done?

We need more Academy programs where students can get all As if they affirm their commitment to social justice. Just ask Keys Gamarra.

Will FCPS get a new Superintendent next year, or if
Brabrand's contract is renewed, will he accept the position? Will the SB continue to immerse themselves in the day-to-day operations and dictate how to run FCPS?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In a couple years, this will have been a blip. The same families, students, and teachers will be here. There's plenty of complaining on this board, that's what it's for. But while FCPS is (and has been) a bit soft in the ES area, the MS and HS are very good.

FCPS HS teacher. After we go back to normal, only the teachers and staff slightly less useful than a sack of hair will still be around. Yes, there are plenty of those, so you'll be stuck with many of the same teachers. The ones with actual qualifications are over FCPS and teaching, and will be applying to other, better-paying jobs. The families and students will remain the same. Those with resources will supplement the crap curriculum and their kids will go to good colleges. Kids who are average and lower middle class and down will be ignored. FCPS leadership will continue to tout itself as a world class schools system. Life will go on.

I can't speak for ES and MS, but I have watched my highly rated high school go from academics-focused to feelings-focused. I'm a proponent of self care and mental health, but for admin to encourage an end of year party in lieu of ANYTHING that demonstrates your learning? Come on.

This is a little dramatic but I agree with everything except the part that teachers and parents will leave. It is the same in my high school. Academics are not important and the focus is all on mental health and equity in name only. That means our admin tells us to slow down, waive assignments, don’t give tests and tell them to express feelings. In a high school honors math class.

The pendulum will swing again. We are way over on one side right now.

Anonymous wrote:In a couple years, this will have been a blip. The same families, students, and teachers will be here. There's plenty of complaining on this board, that's what it's for. But while FCPS is (and has been) a bit soft in the ES area, the MS and HS are very good.

FCPS HS teacher. After we go back to normal, only the teachers and staff slightly less useful than a sack of hair will still be around. Yes, there are plenty of those, so you'll be stuck with many of the same teachers. The ones with actual qualifications are over FCPS and teaching, and will be applying to other, better-paying jobs. The families and students will remain the same. Those with resources will supplement the crap curriculum and their kids will go to good colleges. Kids who are average and lower middle class and down will be ignored. FCPS leadership will continue to tout itself as a world class schools system. Life will go on.

I can't speak for ES and MS, but I have watched my highly rated high school go from academics-focused to feelings-focused. I'm a proponent of self care and mental health, but for admin to encourage an end of year party in lieu of ANYTHING that demonstrates your learning? Come on.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I believe ESOL kids do get pullouts. But they are in the classroom most of the time. How would FCPS consistently stratify learners in a way that doesn't segregate them based on english ability?

Why do we segregate based on math ability? Isn't AAP segregating those with different academic strengths and needs? Why does it make a difference when it's language? Just leaving them in the classroom with non-ESOL isn't serving either group to the best of our ability.

Math ability isnt a protected class.

Is language?

No but national origin is and discrimination based on language has been equated to discrimination based on national origin

Equated by whom? What statute? What Supreme Court case? "Equated" by FCPS is all I can see.

Intentionally grouping students into classes for no rational reason other than national origin would be unlawful. Grouping students by ability is not unlawful, regardless of how it shakes out. Yes, you might fund that grouping students by English-language proficiency results in American-born students grouped in with Indian-born and Nigerian-born students, because each of those countries speaks English, while other groups of students who have less of a grasp on the English language are grouped together. So what? That's not unlawful.

What seems to be missing here is that without basic grasp of the english language teachers can't determine what their level of content knowledge is in each subject. So how would they effectively and legally group them?

Even if schools translated every written material into all languages, the kid would still have to be grouped with like-knowledged kids ... And the instruction would still be in english... Leading them right back to where we started. The teacher speaks English and the kid doesn't so they can't perform.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:ESOL keeps coming up. Would it be a horrible thing for them to have a dedicated ESOL class? Wouldn't it be more efficient and better serve them? And also students need to actually be held back if needed instead of just moved constantly forward.

Exactly, as well as 3-4 levels of classes as PP said. Currently we just have regular and AAP in elementary, but we need at least one other level to differentiate between the disparate abilities of students. Also, there is no reason why schools cannot switch kids back and forth midway through the year, if a level is deemed inappropriate.

What is being done now is madness in terms of learning; most kids cannot learn much when the whole class is taught at exactly the same level. Group work by level is also minimal, which is another serious issue. Elementary kids have minimal opportunity in the classroom to work within a similar ability group.

I guess this depends on your school. Our kids went to large schools with many students who learning English, but they were still in appropriae reading groups every year.

Level 1 + 2 ESL students do get pulled out in middle and high for specialized classes. It can be possible. Special ED and ESOL staffing is abysmal in ES. If each grade level had a dedicated ESOL teacher and SPED teacher, there could be a change for the better.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I believe ESOL kids do get pullouts. But they are in the classroom most of the time. How would FCPS consistently stratify learners in a way that doesn't segregate them based on english ability?

Why do we segregate based on math ability? Isn't AAP segregating those with different academic strengths and needs? Why does it make a difference when it's language? Just leaving them in the classroom with non-ESOL isn't serving either group to the best of our ability.

Math ability isnt a protected class.

Is language?

No but national origin is and discrimination based on language has been equated to discrimination based on national origin

Equated by whom? What statute? What Supreme Court case? "Equated" by FCPS is all I can see.

Intentionally grouping students into classes for no rational reason other than national origin would be unlawful. Grouping students by ability is not unlawful, regardless of how it shakes out. Yes, you might fund that grouping students by English-language proficiency results in American-born students grouped in with Indian-born and Nigerian-born students, because each of those countries speaks English, while other groups of students who have less of a grasp on the English language are grouped together. So what? That's not unlawful.

This sounds like a great way to get kids the English language support they each would need. Who would be against this?

People who think acknowledging differences is the same as saying someone is "less than."

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I believe ESOL kids do get pullouts. But they are in the classroom most of the time. How would FCPS consistently stratify learners in a way that doesn't segregate them based on english ability?

Why do we segregate based on math ability? Isn't AAP segregating those with different academic strengths and needs? Why does it make a difference when it's language? Just leaving them in the classroom with non-ESOL isn't serving either group to the best of our ability.

Math ability isnt a protected class.

Is language?

No but national origin is and discrimination based on language has been equated to discrimination based on national origin

Equated by whom? What statute? What Supreme Court case? "Equated" by FCPS is all I can see.

Intentionally grouping students into classes for no rational reason other than national origin would be unlawful. Grouping students by ability is not unlawful, regardless of how it shakes out. Yes, you might fund that grouping students by English-language proficiency results in American-born students grouped in with Indian-born and Nigerian-born students, because each of those countries speaks English, while other groups of students who have less of a grasp on the English language are grouped together. So what? That's not unlawful.

This sounds like a great way to get kids the English language support they each would need. Who would be against this?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I believe ESOL kids do get pullouts. But they are in the classroom most of the time. How would FCPS consistently stratify learners in a way that doesn't segregate them based on english ability?

Why do we segregate based on math ability? Isn't AAP segregating those with different academic strengths and needs? Why does it make a difference when it's language? Just leaving them in the classroom with non-ESOL isn't serving either group to the best of our ability.

Math ability isnt a protected class.

Is language?

No but national origin is and discrimination based on language has been equated to discrimination based on national origin

Equated by whom? What statute? What Supreme Court case? "Equated" by FCPS is all I can see.

Intentionally grouping students into classes for no rational reason other than national origin would be unlawful. Grouping students by ability is not unlawful, regardless of how it shakes out. Yes, you might fund that grouping students by English-language proficiency results in American-born students grouped in with Indian-born and Nigerian-born students, because each of those countries speaks English, while other groups of students who have less of a grasp on the English language are grouped together. So what? That's not unlawful.

Anonymous wrote:And, here's a dirty little secret. The ESL students stay in ESL for years. Students arrive as freshmen unable to read, speak or understand any English and...will refuse to answer in English two years later. They fully expect and demand a translator and get one. Often they'll miss entire class periods waiting for an interpreter.

Calls home have to be interpreted. Translations services must be available for school meetings.

Are there statistics on ESL grad rates?

The only thing that is dirty is your filthy suggestion this is somehow the norm. You people are so despicable.