Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:For many people, a leave of absence isn’t an option. Not everyone qualifies for FFCRA - if your employer has over 500 employees, it doesn’t apply to you, and if your employer has fewer than 50 employees, they may qualify for an exemption. That means a lot of people can only take unpaid leave, and they have zero job protection if they do. And even if you do qualify, not everyone can afford to give up a third of their pay, especially if they’re still paying for childcare they can’t use in order to keep their spot for when things re-open.

I am talking about unpaid leave.
If you aren’t taking any time off because you can’t afford to, then you have my sympathies. I am specifically addressing those people who don’t need to work, could stay home, but choose not to because SAHPs are whatever awful thing (stupid, lazy, boring, childlike, etc.). It’s a pretty vocal and particularly nasty contingent on this board.

Not all employers will allow employees to take an unpaid leave of absence. You do your job or your quit. And yes, I would say quitting your job to take care of your children full time is a substantial life change, whether you need the paycheck or not. There's not guarantee you'll easily find another job, especially if we head into a longer rescission like some are predicting.

Of course you would be able to find another job. Stop with this narrative that you and the other women on this board are somehow unworthy, are so lucky that anyone would hire them, and are required to put up with any and all BS because it might never happen again. You sound like you are in an abusive relationship.

Who said anything about women? I was talking about people generally. Quitting a job when there's a good chance we're heading into a recession isn't a good idea for anyone unless you're okay dropping out of the workforce for a year or more.

+100 Sure, I could afford to quit for a year or two, but as a 42 year old woman heading into a recession? Not advisable. That, and my family’s health insurance is tied to my job, and there’s this pandemic happening.

Anonymous wrote:SAHM, just stop! Oftentimes there are unwarranted and unfair attacks on SAH parents on this board, but this is not one of them.

WAH full-time in quarantine is fine, easy even.
SAHP/ schooling kids in quarantine is fine, enjoyable even.
Doing both is hellish and exhausting. I know, because I did it for 2.5+ months.
We recently hired a nanny who works 3-4 days, and I am juggling leave to basically be "off" with the kids the other 1-2 days. Guess what? EASY. FUN!

It's not staying at home in quarantine with the kids that is hard. It is working 40-60 hours full-time while doing so that is miserable.

Anonymous wrote:Op here. We are at the beach. Kids have been fishing and swimming between school.

Kids will be able to participate in some outdoor activities this summer and we just got notification that soccer season is planning to start in August.

We are in a better place.

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For many people, a leave of absence isn’t an option. Not everyone qualifies for FFCRA - if your employer has over 500 employees, it doesn’t apply to you, and if your employer has fewer than 50 employees, they may qualify for an exemption. That means a lot of people can only take unpaid leave, and they have zero job protection if they do. And even if you do qualify, not everyone can afford to give up a third of their pay, especially if they’re still paying for childcare they can’t use in order to keep their spot for when things re-open.

I am talking about unpaid leave.
If you aren’t taking any time off because you can’t afford to, then you have my sympathies. I am specifically addressing those people who don’t need to work, could stay home, but choose not to because SAHPs are whatever awful thing (stupid, lazy, boring, childlike, etc.). It’s a pretty vocal and particularly nasty contingent on this board.

Not all employers will allow employees to take an unpaid leave of absence. You do your job or your quit. And yes, I would say quitting your job to take care of your children full time is a substantial life change, whether you need the paycheck or not. There's not guarantee you'll easily find another job, especially if we head into a longer rescission like some are predicting.

Of course you would be able to find another job. Stop with this narrative that you and the other women on this board are somehow unworthy, are so lucky that anyone would hire them, and are required to put up with any and all BS because it might never happen again. You sound like you are in an abusive relationship.

Who said anything about women? I was talking about people generally. Quitting a job when there's a good chance we're heading into a recession isn't a good idea for anyone unless you're okay dropping out of the workforce for a year or more.

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Anonymous wrote:I will do what's best for the overall health and safety of my family. If that means we continue to shelter-in-place, then so be it. My kids go outside and play every day. They sometimes play at a distance with other kids. My older kid connects with friends online. I took my kids to the park on Monday, but we kept our distance from other people. This isn't an all or nothing situation, and it never really was. You just have to be mindful, careful, and minimize people contact at this junction. It won't last forever. Yes, its very, very challenging teleworking, being tech support, teaching kids, and trying to make sure assignments are turned in, particularly when teachers are vague, but it is what is for now. I haven't been 100% successful and I dare anyone at work or school to complain about it. I am doing my best.

+ 1

I thinnk people who are having mental breakdowns are the ones who were not very involved parents even before COVID. I think the pandemic has made it clear how dysfunctional many families were. That is the reason child abuse and domestic violence has increased to. Earlier people could escape outside the home. Now we are at home and if it is not a haven then everything falls apart.

It is not an all or nothing situation. People are being creative and kids are also playing outside, studying and connecting with friends online. Is your house is a bit messier? Are the chores not done? Have you not been folding clothes after doing laundry? Yes. For most of us all of this is happening and these are minor inconveninces. There are a lot of benefits of staying at home too - kids being able to sleep in duing the week, No commute, Being with family, leisurely pace of school work, no running from one EC to another...these are all benefits that evens out the drawbacks.

Wait what? Are you saying that if you’re having a hard time now that means your family was already dysfunctional or you were a checked out parent? That’s ludicrous.

DP here. Yes, I think parents who were super hands off/checked out before or outsourced at ton of things are struggling more now. I am SAHM whose husband works a regular 40 hour/week job. We didn't outsource cleaning or have childcare beyond an occasional date night. This hasn't really been that much of an adjustment for us other than everyone missing friends, which is a little better now that we are seeing people outdoors.

I have a different take. I think the parents who were very controlling before, such that their kids didn't have unapproved interactions and who already limited playdates, no exposure to babysitters, no group camps, etc., are not struggling. This is their dream, in fact -- they can isolate and control their kids even more.

This is sooooo spot on! Now the controlling parents are even more emboldened than they were before, and now they can judge everyone else. It really is about control. I sense a lot of anxious kids in our future.

No sweetie, good parents probably avoided letting their kids play with yours because they can spot negligent parents and poorly bought up children. Functional families have a way to make things work. If you have not lost your job and are in good health, then this pandemic is nothing that cannot be endured with grace. People are freaking out because they have to feed the kids or keep the house clean or educate them, even though they are working from home and can take out time to post on DCUM. It is lack of planning and organization that has made these parents into failures. Many parents are lacking in adulting skills like cooking, cleaning, teaching elementary school kids or even knowing how to parent. Many parents are drinking, being neglectful and being unhappy because they want someone else to be with their children.

They are having a MENTAL MELTDOWN. Well, there is probably going to be another 18 months of this stuff.

Imagine having a 40+ hour a week job on top of whatever it is you do. This is why I say, SAHMs should probably step back and let the grownups talk about grownup topics.

Then quit, take a leave of absence, or find childcare.
It’s hardly the fault of some SAHM that you can’t manage your life.

I have childcare (a nanny). I am living my best life right now. But I know many people whose kids were in daycare, and it’s tough to interview or trust a new nanny right now. Or some people have SN school-age kids and it’s hard to manage them while working. Anyone with two brain cells can understand that there are tough situations that don’t arise out of dysfunctional families. Anyone who doesn’t (like this SAHM) should probably stop participating in discussions above their level of understanding.

I’m not the above SAHM poster. I work part time without childcare. Working full time while providing full time care to a special needs child is insane. And the reasons that SAHMs get slammed (can’t hack it at work, don’t need any mental stimulation, etc) all imply that this is something anyone can do, but most people choose not to.

So, either admit that you cannot be a SAHM, and the reason you are working is because you have put yourself in a situation where you need the money, or realize that every day this is a choice you make and stop complaining about it.

You think people should make fundamental life change to deal with the momentary challenges of a temporary crisis? That’s, um, stupid.

You can’t take time off work without making a “fundamental life change?” What happens if you need surgery, or when you had a baby, or you have an accident and need a few months to recover? You are never going to work again?

THIS.

Are you all really this dumb? Do you understand how leave works at the vast majority of jobs? If you have a baby, need surgery, are sick/injured, or are taking care of a sick family member, there are specific types of sick/disability/family leave that you can take for a specific amount of time. You generally can't use those for kids being home due to COVID. The FFCRA is the only type of leave available for the majority of people whose kids are home due to COVID-19. And not everyone is even eligible for that. Even if they are, it's a maximum of 12 weeks. Meaning if you took it when it was first approved, your leave would be just about over. With no sign of schools/camps/childcare opening.

Also, GTFO acting like what's going on now is anything like normal SAHM life. I have done both. When I was home we did a mix of hanging out at home, meeting up with friends, and going places like the farm, the pool, the library, etc. We visited grandparents. They did part time preschool once they were old enough. I had outlets by going to the gym and going to dinner with friends or date nights with my husband. None of that is happening right now. Maybe you're just a weirdo with no friends or life, so you never did any of those things before. But for most moms this is a drastic change no matter if they worked or stayed home.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For many people, a leave of absence isn’t an option. Not everyone qualifies for FFCRA - if your employer has over 500 employees, it doesn’t apply to you, and if your employer has fewer than 50 employees, they may qualify for an exemption. That means a lot of people can only take unpaid leave, and they have zero job protection if they do. And even if you do qualify, not everyone can afford to give up a third of their pay, especially if they’re still paying for childcare they can’t use in order to keep their spot for when things re-open.

I am talking about unpaid leave.
If you aren’t taking any time off because you can’t afford to, then you have my sympathies. I am specifically addressing those people who don’t need to work, could stay home, but choose not to because SAHPs are whatever awful thing (stupid, lazy, boring, childlike, etc.). It’s a pretty vocal and particularly nasty contingent on this board.

Not all employers will allow employees to take an unpaid leave of absence. You do your job or your quit. And yes, I would say quitting your job to take care of your children full time is a substantial life change, whether you need the paycheck or not. There's not guarantee you'll easily find another job, especially if we head into a longer rescission like some are predicting.

Of course you would be able to find another job. Stop with this narrative that you and the other women on this board are somehow unworthy, are so lucky that anyone would hire them, and are required to put up with any and all BS because it might never happen again. You sound like you are in an abusive relationship.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For many people, a leave of absence isn’t an option. Not everyone qualifies for FFCRA - if your employer has over 500 employees, it doesn’t apply to you, and if your employer has fewer than 50 employees, they may qualify for an exemption. That means a lot of people can only take unpaid leave, and they have zero job protection if they do. And even if you do qualify, not everyone can afford to give up a third of their pay, especially if they’re still paying for childcare they can’t use in order to keep their spot for when things re-open.

I am talking about unpaid leave.
If you aren’t taking any time off because you can’t afford to, then you have my sympathies. I am specifically addressing those people who don’t need to work, could stay home, but choose not to because SAHPs are whatever awful thing (stupid, lazy, boring, childlike, etc.). It’s a pretty vocal and particularly nasty contingent on this board.

Not all employers will allow employees to take an unpaid leave of absence. You do your job or your quit. And yes, I would say quitting your job to take care of your children full time is a substantial life change, whether you need the paycheck or not. There's not guarantee you'll easily find another job, especially if we head into a longer rescission like some are predicting.

Of course you would be able to find another job. Stop with this narrative that you and the other women on this board are somehow unworthy, are so lucky that anyone would hire them, and are required to put up with any and all BS because it might never happen again. You sound like you are in an abusive relationship.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For many people, a leave of absence isn’t an option. Not everyone qualifies for FFCRA - if your employer has over 500 employees, it doesn’t apply to you, and if your employer has fewer than 50 employees, they may qualify for an exemption. That means a lot of people can only take unpaid leave, and they have zero job protection if they do. And even if you do qualify, not everyone can afford to give up a third of their pay, especially if they’re still paying for childcare they can’t use in order to keep their spot for when things re-open.

I am talking about unpaid leave.
If you aren’t taking any time off because you can’t afford to, then you have my sympathies. I am specifically addressing those people who don’t need to work, could stay home, but choose not to because SAHPs are whatever awful thing (stupid, lazy, boring, childlike, etc.). It’s a pretty vocal and particularly nasty contingent on this board.

Not all employers will allow employees to take an unpaid leave of absence. You do your job or your quit. And yes, I would say quitting your job to take care of your children full time is a substantial life change, whether you need the paycheck or not. There's not guarantee you'll easily find another job, especially if we head into a longer rescission like some are predicting.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For many people, a leave of absence isn’t an option. Not everyone qualifies for FFCRA - if your employer has over 500 employees, it doesn’t apply to you, and if your employer has fewer than 50 employees, they may qualify for an exemption. That means a lot of people can only take unpaid leave, and they have zero job protection if they do. And even if you do qualify, not everyone can afford to give up a third of their pay, especially if they’re still paying for childcare they can’t use in order to keep their spot for when things re-open.

I am talking about unpaid leave.
If you aren’t taking any time off because you can’t afford to, then you have my sympathies. I am specifically addressing those people who don’t need to work, could stay home, but choose not to because SAHPs are whatever awful thing (stupid, lazy, boring, childlike, etc.). It’s a pretty vocal and particularly nasty contingent on this board.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I will do what's best for the overall health and safety of my family. If that means we continue to shelter-in-place, then so be it. My kids go outside and play every day. They sometimes play at a distance with other kids. My older kid connects with friends online. I took my kids to the park on Monday, but we kept our distance from other people. This isn't an all or nothing situation, and it never really was. You just have to be mindful, careful, and minimize people contact at this junction. It won't last forever. Yes, its very, very challenging teleworking, being tech support, teaching kids, and trying to make sure assignments are turned in, particularly when teachers are vague, but it is what is for now. I haven't been 100% successful and I dare anyone at work or school to complain about it. I am doing my best.

+ 1

I thinnk people who are having mental breakdowns are the ones who were not very involved parents even before COVID. I think the pandemic has made it clear how dysfunctional many families were. That is the reason child abuse and domestic violence has increased to. Earlier people could escape outside the home. Now we are at home and if it is not a haven then everything falls apart.

It is not an all or nothing situation. People are being creative and kids are also playing outside, studying and connecting with friends online. Is your house is a bit messier? Are the chores not done? Have you not been folding clothes after doing laundry? Yes. For most of us all of this is happening and these are minor inconveninces. There are a lot of benefits of staying at home too - kids being able to sleep in duing the week, No commute, Being with family, leisurely pace of school work, no running from one EC to another...these are all benefits that evens out the drawbacks.

Wait what? Are you saying that if you’re having a hard time now that means your family was already dysfunctional or you were a checked out parent? That’s ludicrous.

DP here. Yes, I think parents who were super hands off/checked out before or outsourced at ton of things are struggling more now. I am SAHM whose husband works a regular 40 hour/week job. We didn't outsource cleaning or have childcare beyond an occasional date night. This hasn't really been that much of an adjustment for us other than everyone missing friends, which is a little better now that we are seeing people outdoors.

I have a different take. I think the parents who were very controlling before, such that their kids didn't have unapproved interactions and who already limited playdates, no exposure to babysitters, no group camps, etc., are not struggling. This is their dream, in fact -- they can isolate and control their kids even more.

This is sooooo spot on! Now the controlling parents are even more emboldened than they were before, and now they can judge everyone else. It really is about control. I sense a lot of anxious kids in our future.

No sweetie, good parents probably avoided letting their kids play with yours because they can spot negligent parents and poorly bought up children. Functional families have a way to make things work. If you have not lost your job and are in good health, then this pandemic is nothing that cannot be endured with grace. People are freaking out because they have to feed the kids or keep the house clean or educate them, even though they are working from home and can take out time to post on DCUM. It is lack of planning and organization that has made these parents into failures. Many parents are lacking in adulting skills like cooking, cleaning, teaching elementary school kids or even knowing how to parent. Many parents are drinking, being neglectful and being unhappy because they want someone else to be with their children.

They are having a MENTAL MELTDOWN. Well, there is probably going to be another 18 months of this stuff.

Imagine having a 40+ hour a week job on top of whatever it is you do. This is why I say, SAHMs should probably step back and let the grownups talk about grownup topics.

Then quit, take a leave of absence, or find childcare.
It’s hardly the fault of some SAHM that you can’t manage your life.

I have childcare (a nanny). I am living my best life right now. But I know many people whose kids were in daycare, and it’s tough to interview or trust a new nanny right now. Or some people have SN school-age kids and it’s hard to manage them while working. Anyone with two brain cells can understand that there are tough situations that don’t arise out of dysfunctional families. Anyone who doesn’t (like this SAHM) should probably stop participating in discussions above their level of understanding.

I’m not the above SAHM poster. I work part time without childcare. Working full time while providing full time care to a special needs child is insane. And the reasons that SAHMs get slammed (can’t hack it at work, don’t need any mental stimulation, etc) all imply that this is something anyone can do, but most people choose not to.

So, either admit that you cannot be a SAHM, and the reason you are working is because you have put yourself in a situation where you need the money, or realize that every day this is a choice you make and stop complaining about it.

You think people should make fundamental life change to deal with the momentary challenges of a temporary crisis? That’s, um, stupid.

You can’t take time off work without making a “fundamental life change?” What happens if you need surgery, or when you had a baby, or you have an accident and need a few months to recover? You are never going to work again?

THIS.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I am talking about unpaid leave.
If you aren’t taking any time off because you can’t afford to, then you have my sympathies. I am specifically addressing those people who don’t need to work, could stay home, but choose not to because SAHPs are whatever awful thing (stupid, lazy, boring, childlike, etc.). It’s a pretty vocal and particularly nasty contingent on this board.

I know you're not actually looking to understand, but I'll bite. I work because I enjoy my work and did not enjoy being a SAHM the few months I tried it. I am high enough up in my organization that I cannot just stop working for a few months with no notice. I had months to prepare for my maternity leave and still checked in from time to time. There is no time to train other employees to take over my work and they are also overwhelmed with homeschooling and caring for their children. When I was on maternity leave, they were in the office and their kids were in daycare and school. And honestly, if I were in an accident, I'd likely be calling into meetings and teleworking as soon as possible - with my kids in school and daycare. This situation that we're currently in is like no other.

I get that somewhat. That is why I am still working part time. But if you need to take time off, it's ok. You don't have to push yourself to the point of breakdown.
I was doing a fellowship in child psychiatry when my oldest child was diagnosed with leukemia, and I felt like I couldn't take time off. If I left the fellowship, there wouldn't be enough fellows, and the program was at risk of losing funding from the ACGME. I also had a research project and several things I was doing that seemed very important at the time. I was really trying to figure out how I could be with my child the way that he needed me to AND continue what I was doing at work.
One of my mentors, a child psychoanalyst whom I respected very much, pulled me aside and told me "you're not as important here as you think you are. If you had a stroke tomorrow, this place would keep on running." And he told me to go and be with my child. So I left. People were mad, they wouldn't offer me a job a few months later when I was looking for part time work. But the fellowship still exists. It didn't go under. People adjusted. I actually went back and finished my fellowship a couple of years later, something I was told that I would never be able to do.

Probably, there are people you work with who have a spouse who is out of work and managing most of the childcare, or don't have children, or have older children who are out of the home. Other people can take over some of what you are doing. Or some of it can go undone. What would happen if you died? If you had a stroke? If you were hit by a bus? People would adjust. If you need to take time off, you can.