Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:At the end of the day, elite private schools are not the sole ticket to a meaningful and satisfying life, and they certainly don’t guarantee one.

+1

This needs to be pinned at the top of the thread. Thank you.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Even with all the talk of financial aid obscures the large middle ground demographics that used to be able to afford expensive private colleges in the past, the upper middle classes (or lower upper middle class if we want to narrow it more specifically) are now priced out - they don't get financial aid or only a token amount, and they can't really cover the full tuition without enormous financial sacrifice that is not worth it at that level.

Your part in bold: "worth it" is subjective, and you'd be better off just saying "I can afford it but I don't think it is worth it". That's completely acceptable.

Funnily enough, all the defensive posters talking about the amazing financial aids at the Ivies don't talk about it relative to their own kids. Did their kids get amazing packages? Or are they just making an assumption without firsthand experience? There are certainly those who get full or substantial financial packages but the funny thing is that package offers can and do vary widely between the Ivies for admitted students and that alone tells you something about not taking it for granted anyone with a HHI under x amount is getting a full ride, or even with a HHI of 150 or whatever they'll get the aid they need to make it work.

Again to the parts in bold: They are people who have done the research, run the NPCs, and quite probably prepared for the occurrence.

Personally I am full pay at an Ivy and a NESCAC. Yeah I'd love to have a beach house but that is not what I saved for during the last 20 years. And I feel good about it. My choice, you make yours.

Cool it Marie Antoinette.

Being judgmental about other people's lifestyle decisions or career decisions that are not "bad" decisions is petty and silly. As is dismissing other people's pointing out the flaws in the higher education economic model. The whole model is morally bankrupt if it demands this degree of financial sacrifice that could nearly bankrupt a family. It's effectively robbing the rich to pay the poor and telling the donut hole "middle" to suck it up without any sympathy.

Of course many in the donut middle are looking at other options and making things work, but trying to shame people for talking about the increasingly unsustainable world of higher education costs only makes you, well, Marie Antoinette.

Your reading comprehension is bad and you don't understand the history of the French revolution either.

My post says clearly: "My choice, you make yours." I respect any choice WRT what something is worth.

My post also answers a question (I assume) you asked about whether the opposing side had any experience.

Where do you see judgment? You are the one (unsuccessfully) throwing pejoratives.

NP. I think your insinuation that people could afford the most expensive colleges if only they didn’t buy that beach house (or luxury cars, or whatever) is where the pushback is. I don’t have a beach house, or a luxury car (love my Honda), my kitchen just screams 1992 (when the house was built), and so on. Still couldn’t have saved the $80K needed to go to Amherst or Yale.

Sorry, but I was speaking of my own decision only. I would like a beach house. I could have bought one. I didn't. Me. No insinuation. My choices. I don't know how many times I have to say it.

As for you: What did the NPC for Amherst or Yale say when you entered your data?

Not PP, and I would like a beach house, too - but cannot afford one.

The NPC for Yale (where my DC was admitted) for us said $68K. Yale offered $5500 in student loans and work-study. That's it.

I will politely ask you also:

https://admissions.yale.edu/affordability-details

Families earning between $75,000 and $200,000 (with typical assets) contribute a percentage of their yearly income towards their child’s Yale education, on a sliding scale that begins at 1% and moves toward 20%.

There is no income cutoff for financial aid awards. Some families with over $200,000 in annual income receive need-based aid from Yale.

So your income is well above $200k? Or do you have assets that you cannot liquidate?

I don't know what Yale means by "typical assets." Our house is paid off and our HHI is $240K. We have about a year's worth of living expenses in a savings account per our financial planner's advice (the FP also advised us to have the house paid off by the time DH was 65), and we have retirement savings.

I'm 60 and DH will be 65 this year, and has Parkinson's - he will retire in the next year or so. We certainly expect he will need long-term care, which neither FAFSA nor the CSS contemplate. He has other health issues that have made him ineligible for long-term care insurance (and for that matter, for disability insurance other than what he has at work). Dementia and longevity run in both of our families.

We can pay about $50K/year per kid for college, and no more.

I anticipate that DCUM will tell us to use everything we have outside of retirement accounts, including our home equity, but our FP (and any others who know what they are talking about) would disagree.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Classic “I don’t have any money left after I spend it all” thread.

College pricing is now more differentiated than ever. The donut hole that existed when I was a kid has actually been fixed. You just don’t like being asked to save what you could have, if you had made it a priority.

Oh, really? Then this entire thread and all these posters' experiences are just made up stories?

Kid, someday when you grow up, you will realize life is not fair. Most people don't jump straight into 6 figure salaries upon graduation with no debt. There are things like life expenses that get in the way. There are things like bad economies and unemployment. There are things like oh, Mom needs financial help. There are many, many things that get into the way of being able to build up the kind of savings to pay for an Ivy degree without assistance while still being responsible for your retirement and having a decent place to live and living a decent life.

Shrugs. No one is entitled to a fancy degree. We all know that. But whining that parents didn't save enough money and should be shamed is a childish thing to do when you don't have any clue as to what their life story was.

But a lot of the PP's experiences are based on fears of what they think will happen rather than what they have directly experienced. Or they chose to not try for private schools because of these fears. As someone who has gone through the process, the net price calculators for each school are dead on--or slightly less generous than reality-- to what we received as a family whose income is considered in the "donut hole" and who have assets. Private elite schools had more generous financial aid policies, less elite private schools had more generous merit aid policies. There are places to write about extenuating circumstances in your financial aid application (for instance expenditures on parents). So the best advice is to go to the net price calculators and see what they say. In our experience, a portion of the aid for some schools will be direct unsubsidized loans through the govt--but these have maximums ($5,500 freshman year, slightly higher each year after--no more than $27K total for undergrad education) but the rest of the aid is grants at many elite schools.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:$69K**

If it is Yale:

https://admissions.yale.edu/affordability-details

Families earning between $75,000 and $200,000 (with typical assets) contribute a percentage of their yearly income towards their child’s Yale education, on a sliding scale that begins at 1% and moves toward 20%.

There is no income cutoff for financial aid awards. Some families with over $200,000 in annual income receive need-based aid from Yale.

So your income is well above $200k? Or do you have assets that you cannot liquidate?

No, income is $210K. I’m not liquidating my retirement account or selling my house to pay for something that research shows makes little difference in one’s life trajectory.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Even with all the talk of financial aid obscures the large middle ground demographics that used to be able to afford expensive private colleges in the past, the upper middle classes (or lower upper middle class if we want to narrow it more specifically) are now priced out - they don't get financial aid or only a token amount, and they can't really cover the full tuition without enormous financial sacrifice that is not worth it at that level.

Your part in bold: "worth it" is subjective, and you'd be better off just saying "I can afford it but I don't think it is worth it". That's completely acceptable.

Funnily enough, all the defensive posters talking about the amazing financial aids at the Ivies don't talk about it relative to their own kids. Did their kids get amazing packages? Or are they just making an assumption without firsthand experience? There are certainly those who get full or substantial financial packages but the funny thing is that package offers can and do vary widely between the Ivies for admitted students and that alone tells you something about not taking it for granted anyone with a HHI under x amount is getting a full ride, or even with a HHI of 150 or whatever they'll get the aid they need to make it work.

Again to the parts in bold: They are people who have done the research, run the NPCs, and quite probably prepared for the occurrence.

Personally I am full pay at an Ivy and a NESCAC. Yeah I'd love to have a beach house but that is not what I saved for during the last 20 years. And I feel good about it. My choice, you make yours.

Cool it Marie Antoinette.

Being judgmental about other people's lifestyle decisions or career decisions that are not "bad" decisions is petty and silly. As is dismissing other people's pointing out the flaws in the higher education economic model. The whole model is morally bankrupt if it demands this degree of financial sacrifice that could nearly bankrupt a family. It's effectively robbing the rich to pay the poor and telling the donut hole "middle" to suck it up without any sympathy.

Of course many in the donut middle are looking at other options and making things work, but trying to shame people for talking about the increasingly unsustainable world of higher education costs only makes you, well, Marie Antoinette.

Your reading comprehension is bad and you don't understand the history of the French revolution either.

My post says clearly: "My choice, you make yours." I respect any choice WRT what something is worth.

My post also answers a question (I assume) you asked about whether the opposing side had any experience.

Where do you see judgment? You are the one (unsuccessfully) throwing pejoratives.

NP. I think your insinuation that people could afford the most expensive colleges if only they didn’t buy that beach house (or luxury cars, or whatever) is where the pushback is. I don’t have a beach house, or a luxury car (love my Honda), my kitchen just screams 1992 (when the house was built), and so on. Still couldn’t have saved the $80K needed to go to Amherst or Yale.

Sorry, but I was speaking of my own decision only. I would like a beach house. I could have bought one. I didn't. Me. No insinuation. My choices. I don't know how many times I have to say it.

As for you: What did the NPC for Amherst or Yale say when you entered your data?

Not PP, and I would like a beach house, too - but cannot afford one.

The NPC for Yale (where my DC was admitted) for us said $68K. Yale offered $5500 in student loans and work-study. That's it.

I will politely ask you also:

https://admissions.yale.edu/affordability-details

Families earning between $75,000 and $200,000 (with typical assets) contribute a percentage of their yearly income towards their child’s Yale education, on a sliding scale that begins at 1% and moves toward 20%.

There is no income cutoff for financial aid awards. Some families with over $200,000 in annual income receive need-based aid from Yale.

So your income is well above $200k? Or do you have assets that you cannot liquidate?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Even with all the talk of financial aid obscures the large middle ground demographics that used to be able to afford expensive private colleges in the past, the upper middle classes (or lower upper middle class if we want to narrow it more specifically) are now priced out - they don't get financial aid or only a token amount, and they can't really cover the full tuition without enormous financial sacrifice that is not worth it at that level.

Your part in bold: "worth it" is subjective, and you'd be better off just saying "I can afford it but I don't think it is worth it". That's completely acceptable.

Funnily enough, all the defensive posters talking about the amazing financial aids at the Ivies don't talk about it relative to their own kids. Did their kids get amazing packages? Or are they just making an assumption without firsthand experience? There are certainly those who get full or substantial financial packages but the funny thing is that package offers can and do vary widely between the Ivies for admitted students and that alone tells you something about not taking it for granted anyone with a HHI under x amount is getting a full ride, or even with a HHI of 150 or whatever they'll get the aid they need to make it work.

Again to the parts in bold: They are people who have done the research, run the NPCs, and quite probably prepared for the occurrence.

Personally I am full pay at an Ivy and a NESCAC. Yeah I'd love to have a beach house but that is not what I saved for during the last 20 years. And I feel good about it. My choice, you make yours.

Cool it Marie Antoinette.

Being judgmental about other people's lifestyle decisions or career decisions that are not "bad" decisions is petty and silly. As is dismissing other people's pointing out the flaws in the higher education economic model. The whole model is morally bankrupt if it demands this degree of financial sacrifice that could nearly bankrupt a family. It's effectively robbing the rich to pay the poor and telling the donut hole "middle" to suck it up without any sympathy.

Of course many in the donut middle are looking at other options and making things work, but trying to shame people for talking about the increasingly unsustainable world of higher education costs only makes you, well, Marie Antoinette.

Your reading comprehension is bad and you don't understand the history of the French revolution either.

My post says clearly: "My choice, you make yours." I respect any choice WRT what something is worth.

My post also answers a question (I assume) you asked about whether the opposing side had any experience.

Where do you see judgment? You are the one (unsuccessfully) throwing pejoratives.

NP. I think your insinuation that people could afford the most expensive colleges if only they didn’t buy that beach house (or luxury cars, or whatever) is where the pushback is. I don’t have a beach house, or a luxury car (love my Honda), my kitchen just screams 1992 (when the house was built), and so on. Still couldn’t have saved the $80K needed to go to Amherst or Yale.

Sorry, but I was speaking of my own decision only. I would like a beach house. I could have bought one. I didn't. Me. No insinuation. My choices. I don't know how many times I have to say it.

As for you: What did the NPC for Amherst or Yale say when you entered your data?

Not PP, and I would like a beach house, too - but cannot afford one.

The NPC for Yale (where my DC was admitted) for us said $68K. Yale offered $5500 in student loans and work-study. That's it.

Anonymous wrote:$69K**

If it is Yale:

https://admissions.yale.edu/affordability-details

Families earning between $75,000 and $200,000 (with typical assets) contribute a percentage of their yearly income towards their child’s Yale education, on a sliding scale that begins at 1% and moves toward 20%.

There is no income cutoff for financial aid awards. Some families with over $200,000 in annual income receive need-based aid from Yale.

So your income is well above $200k? Or do you have assets that you cannot liquidate?

$69K**

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Even with all the talk of financial aid obscures the large middle ground demographics that used to be able to afford expensive private colleges in the past, the upper middle classes (or lower upper middle class if we want to narrow it more specifically) are now priced out - they don't get financial aid or only a token amount, and they can't really cover the full tuition without enormous financial sacrifice that is not worth it at that level.

Your part in bold: "worth it" is subjective, and you'd be better off just saying "I can afford it but I don't think it is worth it". That's completely acceptable.

Funnily enough, all the defensive posters talking about the amazing financial aids at the Ivies don't talk about it relative to their own kids. Did their kids get amazing packages? Or are they just making an assumption without firsthand experience? There are certainly those who get full or substantial financial packages but the funny thing is that package offers can and do vary widely between the Ivies for admitted students and that alone tells you something about not taking it for granted anyone with a HHI under x amount is getting a full ride, or even with a HHI of 150 or whatever they'll get the aid they need to make it work.

Again to the parts in bold: They are people who have done the research, run the NPCs, and quite probably prepared for the occurrence.

Personally I am full pay at an Ivy and a NESCAC. Yeah I'd love to have a beach house but that is not what I saved for during the last 20 years. And I feel good about it. My choice, you make yours.

Cool it Marie Antoinette.

Being judgmental about other people's lifestyle decisions or career decisions that are not "bad" decisions is petty and silly. As is dismissing other people's pointing out the flaws in the higher education economic model. The whole model is morally bankrupt if it demands this degree of financial sacrifice that could nearly bankrupt a family. It's effectively robbing the rich to pay the poor and telling the donut hole "middle" to suck it up without any sympathy.

Of course many in the donut middle are looking at other options and making things work, but trying to shame people for talking about the increasingly unsustainable world of higher education costs only makes you, well, Marie Antoinette.

Your reading comprehension is bad and you don't understand the history of the French revolution either.

My post says clearly: "My choice, you make yours." I respect any choice WRT what something is worth.

My post also answers a question (I assume) you asked about whether the opposing side had any experience.

Where do you see judgment? You are the one (unsuccessfully) throwing pejoratives.

NP. I think your insinuation that people could afford the most expensive colleges if only they didn’t buy that beach house (or luxury cars, or whatever) is where the pushback is. I don’t have a beach house, or a luxury car (love my Honda), my kitchen just screams 1992 (when the house was built), and so on. Still couldn’t have saved the $80K needed to go to Amherst or Yale.

Sorry, but I was speaking of my own decision only. I would like a beach house. I could have bought one. I didn't. Me. No insinuation. My choices. I don't know how many times I have to say it.

As for you: What did the NPC for Amherst or Yale say when you entered your data?

$69L

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Even with all the talk of financial aid obscures the large middle ground demographics that used to be able to afford expensive private colleges in the past, the upper middle classes (or lower upper middle class if we want to narrow it more specifically) are now priced out - they don't get financial aid or only a token amount, and they can't really cover the full tuition without enormous financial sacrifice that is not worth it at that level.

Your part in bold: "worth it" is subjective, and you'd be better off just saying "I can afford it but I don't think it is worth it". That's completely acceptable.

Funnily enough, all the defensive posters talking about the amazing financial aids at the Ivies don't talk about it relative to their own kids. Did their kids get amazing packages? Or are they just making an assumption without firsthand experience? There are certainly those who get full or substantial financial packages but the funny thing is that package offers can and do vary widely between the Ivies for admitted students and that alone tells you something about not taking it for granted anyone with a HHI under x amount is getting a full ride, or even with a HHI of 150 or whatever they'll get the aid they need to make it work.

Again to the parts in bold: They are people who have done the research, run the NPCs, and quite probably prepared for the occurrence.

Personally I am full pay at an Ivy and a NESCAC. Yeah I'd love to have a beach house but that is not what I saved for during the last 20 years. And I feel good about it. My choice, you make yours.

Cool it Marie Antoinette.

Being judgmental about other people's lifestyle decisions or career decisions that are not "bad" decisions is petty and silly. As is dismissing other people's pointing out the flaws in the higher education economic model. The whole model is morally bankrupt if it demands this degree of financial sacrifice that could nearly bankrupt a family. It's effectively robbing the rich to pay the poor and telling the donut hole "middle" to suck it up without any sympathy.

Of course many in the donut middle are looking at other options and making things work, but trying to shame people for talking about the increasingly unsustainable world of higher education costs only makes you, well, Marie Antoinette.

Your reading comprehension is bad and you don't understand the history of the French revolution either.

My post says clearly: "My choice, you make yours." I respect any choice WRT what something is worth.

My post also answers a question (I assume) you asked about whether the opposing side had any experience.

Where do you see judgment? You are the one (unsuccessfully) throwing pejoratives.

NP. I think your insinuation that people could afford the most expensive colleges if only they didn’t buy that beach house (or luxury cars, or whatever) is where the pushback is. I don’t have a beach house, or a luxury car (love my Honda), my kitchen just screams 1992 (when the house was built), and so on. Still couldn’t have saved the $80K needed to go to Amherst or Yale.

Sorry, but I was speaking of my own decision only. I would like a beach house. I could have bought one. I didn't. Me. No insinuation. My choices. I don't know how many times I have to say it.

As for you: What did the NPC for Amherst or Yale say when you entered your data?

Looking at this issue from a historical perspective, I think we would find that it's only been within the last two or three generations (depending on how you count) that private colleges were anything but the province of the wealthy and well connected. Back in the day these schools offered scholarships to young bootstrappers but didn't consider an obligation to be accessible to the general public. I would warrant that this is how things are going to be moving forward.

The 50 years following WWII is proving to be a time of unusually broad-based prosperity rather than the new normal for generations to come.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Even with all the talk of financial aid obscures the large middle ground demographics that used to be able to afford expensive private colleges in the past, the upper middle classes (or lower upper middle class if we want to narrow it more specifically) are now priced out - they don't get financial aid or only a token amount, and they can't really cover the full tuition without enormous financial sacrifice that is not worth it at that level.

Your part in bold: "worth it" is subjective, and you'd be better off just saying "I can afford it but I don't think it is worth it". That's completely acceptable.

Funnily enough, all the defensive posters talking about the amazing financial aids at the Ivies don't talk about it relative to their own kids. Did their kids get amazing packages? Or are they just making an assumption without firsthand experience? There are certainly those who get full or substantial financial packages but the funny thing is that package offers can and do vary widely between the Ivies for admitted students and that alone tells you something about not taking it for granted anyone with a HHI under x amount is getting a full ride, or even with a HHI of 150 or whatever they'll get the aid they need to make it work.

Again to the parts in bold: They are people who have done the research, run the NPCs, and quite probably prepared for the occurrence.

Personally I am full pay at an Ivy and a NESCAC. Yeah I'd love to have a beach house but that is not what I saved for during the last 20 years. And I feel good about it. My choice, you make yours.

Cool it Marie Antoinette.

Being judgmental about other people's lifestyle decisions or career decisions that are not "bad" decisions is petty and silly. As is dismissing other people's pointing out the flaws in the higher education economic model. The whole model is morally bankrupt if it demands this degree of financial sacrifice that could nearly bankrupt a family. It's effectively robbing the rich to pay the poor and telling the donut hole "middle" to suck it up without any sympathy.

Of course many in the donut middle are looking at other options and making things work, but trying to shame people for talking about the increasingly unsustainable world of higher education costs only makes you, well, Marie Antoinette.

Your reading comprehension is bad and you don't understand the history of the French revolution either.

My post says clearly: "My choice, you make yours." I respect any choice WRT what something is worth.

My post also answers a question (I assume) you asked about whether the opposing side had any experience.

Where do you see judgment? You are the one (unsuccessfully) throwing pejoratives.

NP. I think your insinuation that people could afford the most expensive colleges if only they didn’t buy that beach house (or luxury cars, or whatever) is where the pushback is. I don’t have a beach house, or a luxury car (love my Honda), my kitchen just screams 1992 (when the house was built), and so on. Still couldn’t have saved the $80K needed to go to Amherst or Yale.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Income isn't the only variable. Assets matter too, as well as a host of other factors (special situations such as substantial medical expenses, special needs child, etc.). Those who were both in a position to start saving early, and in fact did save early, may still find it possible.

If a college isn't affordable, then find another college. Elite privates are not the only way to skin the cat. No one is entitled to an elite private, nor is that necessary for success. There is always another way.

Now apply that logic to poor people and minorities. Let ‘em all go to community college, right?

The OP is simply arguing for a redefinition of “poor”.

you clearly don't know what poor means. Even CC is out of reach for the truly poor.

The return on the investment for an Ivy degree over UVA or MD is minimal. If you're capable enough to go to an Ivy, you will do well in life if you apply yourself regardless of what school you went to.

I live in VA. I was recently looking at the "cost of attendance" of UVA (in state) and UMD (out of state).

UVA = $33,000 a year
UMD = $53,536 a year

Assuming 5% a year tuition increases, when my current 7th grader attends, UVA will cost ~$190,000 for four years and UMD ~$300,000 for four years.

OK, so that's "better" than the $440,000 that four years of an Ivy would cost, but it is still utterly insane!

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Classic “I don’t have any money left after I spend it all” thread.

College pricing is now more differentiated than ever. The donut hole that existed when I was a kid has actually been fixed. You just don’t like being asked to save what you could have, if you had made it a priority.

Oh, really? Then this entire thread and all these posters' experiences are just made up stories?

Kid, someday when you grow up, you will realize life is not fair. Most people don't jump straight into 6 figure salaries upon graduation with no debt. There are things like life expenses that get in the way. There are things like bad economies and unemployment. There are things like oh, Mom needs financial help. There are many, many things that get into the way of being able to build up the kind of savings to pay for an Ivy degree without assistance while still being responsible for your retirement and having a decent place to live and living a decent life.

Shrugs. No one is entitled to a fancy degree. We all know that. But whining that parents didn't save enough money and should be shamed is a childish thing to do when you don't have any clue as to what their life story was.

This is a false argument. No one has anything but sympathy for families who have had extraordinary hardships. I'll point out though that

1) no one has made that claim that I have noticed, and any hardship would have dramatically affected assets, right? Which would make them more qualified for financial aid?

Also,

2) elite financial aid offices have experience dealing with those events for students they want, and I haven't heard anything about those appeals either.