Well, playing on the school team is character-building, don’t cha know. At least, that what the schools’ websites say.

But what do players actually get from being on a high school team? Cant a really good player just play for a travel team/club? Would he have equal chances for colleges?

Sounds like OLGC girls lax. Has been going on for years.

Anonymous wrote:This has been going on for years. High school hires coach because coach has direct ties to club/travel program therefore he/she has pipeline to top tier talent for the high school program.

The whole thing is one big shakedown.

I agree with the PP focus on academics for your choice of school. If your kid is good enough to play at the next level they’ll play.

Yes - this has been going on for years at many schools. But what you describe is different than getting cut from the high school team if you don't (pay to) play on the coach's off season travel program.

This has been going on for years. High school hires coach because coach has direct ties to club/travel program therefore he/she has pipeline to top tier talent for the high school program.

The whole thing is one big shakedown.

I agree with the PP focus on academics for your choice of school. If your kid is good enough to play at the next level they’ll play.

What schools have actually suffered any actual legal consequences though, in circumstances like these? I don't disagree with you about the moral reprehensibility and theoretical legal risk, but typically advise my internal clients based on what's most likely to happen (or not) in practice.

This subject is interesting for many reasons. One is the issue of how parents approach high school and club sports. I think there tends to be a split between those whose kids play “major” American sports and those who play other sports. Think football/basketball/baseball vs soccer/lax/tennis/etc. I think the first group still views sports as something their kids may be able to do professionally, whereas the latter group more likely views sports as something that can help their kids get into the best colleges possible. I’m a bit biased because my kids are in the latter group. They also are at independent schools that emphasize academics, not WCAC powerhouses that are trying to groom kids for ESPN. I would not tolerate what posters are describing as the norm at St Johns. More parents need to think academics first. These sports factories will continue to do what they’re doing as long as parents keep paying tuition and otherwise supporting them.

There’s another reason I’m intrigued by this string of posts. Posters have focused on whether coaches forcing students to pay their private companies is morally acceptable, but I haven’t heard anyone question the legality of it. I’m an attorney and think it is pretty clear that what they are doing is illegal. Private high schools are tax-exempt 501(c)(3) organizations that are subject to certain legal requirements. One is that they must be established and operated for public benefit, not private benefit. When an employee of the school uses his or her position to require students to pay him or her on the side, they are violating the private benefit doctrine. The ultimate penalty is the school’s loss of its tax-exempt status. Less severe penalties include financial penalties for the individual (here the coach) as well as anyone in a leadership position that is allowing this to occur (think board of directors/trustees). Setting aside the fact that what they’re doing is morally reprehensible, if I were the school’s counsel I would advise the school to change its ways and eliminate these practices because they are putting the school in legal jeopardy.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If you're going to have your kids play team sports, then STFU. You should not be complaining. In team sports, coaches have all the powers and can decide who can play and who can sit on the bench. Coaches's decisions can not be challenged.

If you or your kids don't want to be put into that situation, play individual sports like tennis, golf, swimming or squash. The best players get to start and they settle this through match play. Those with the best record during the trial out will be starters. DS played varsity tennis for Flint Hill last year and the top player on the team was an absolute a hole but the coach couldn't do anything about it because he earned his top spot on the team by beating everyone.

You're delusional. What is being described at SJC is kids not being allowed to play on the school baseball team because they won't pay the coaches' private travel program in the offseason. These are kids who are already paying $20K per year to go to SJC. Do you really not see a problem with that?

It's a "team" sport. Coaches have control over who can and can not play. Your kid may look good to one coach but not to any coach because your kid does not "fit" into his system and there is nothing you can do about it.

If you don't like it, have your kid play individual sports. That way it takes the control away from coaches.

A coach could absolutely bench that tennis player you name called.

No the coach can not do that. As long as the tennis player does not violate team rules, in good academic standing, and beat everyone at tryouts for the spot, there is nothing the coach can do about it. Everything at tryouts is on record. If the coach tries to put in his own mediocre players, he will hear from both the parents and the Ad.

It depends. The best player on the team could have a bad attitude, or other behavior issues. Coach could bench that player. The problem is, many times they don't.....

They wouldn’t risk the team’s performance. The goal is to win, not to fix nasty boys.

This is not universally true, which is why a part of your job as a parents is to decide what life lessons you want your kid to learn and choose your school accordingly. Win at all costs? Not for us thanks. Our coaches are expected to promote the full mission of the school, not just produce a winning record.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If you're going to have your kids play team sports, then STFU. You should not be complaining. In team sports, coaches have all the powers and can decide who can play and who can sit on the bench. Coaches's decisions can not be challenged.

If you or your kids don't want to be put into that situation, play individual sports like tennis, golf, swimming or squash. The best players get to start and they settle this through match play. Those with the best record during the trial out will be starters. DS played varsity tennis for Flint Hill last year and the top player on the team was an absolute a hole but the coach couldn't do anything about it because he earned his top spot on the team by beating everyone.

You're delusional. What is being described at SJC is kids not being allowed to play on the school baseball team because they won't pay the coaches' private travel program in the offseason. These are kids who are already paying $20K per year to go to SJC. Do you really not see a problem with that?

It's a "team" sport. Coaches have control over who can and can not play. Your kid may look good to one coach but not to any coach because your kid does not "fit" into his system and there is nothing you can do about it.

If you don't like it, have your kid play individual sports. That way it takes the control away from coaches.

A coach could absolutely bench that tennis player you name called.

No the coach can not do that. As long as the tennis player does not violate team rules, in good academic standing, and beat everyone at tryouts for the spot, there is nothing the coach can do about it. Everything at tryouts is on record. If the coach tries to put in his own mediocre players, he will hear from both the parents and the Ad.

It depends. The best player on the team could have a bad attitude, or other behavior issues. Coach could bench that player. The problem is, many times they don't.....

They wouldn’t risk the team’s performance. The goal is to win, not to fix nasty boys.

Depends on the school. If the school is concerned with negative publicity, or minimizing discipline related headaches, coaches will certainly do this, even if it means risking team performance. Some schools, however, don't care how their knucklehead athletes act....

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If you're going to have your kids play team sports, then STFU. You should not be complaining. In team sports, coaches have all the powers and can decide who can play and who can sit on the bench. Coaches's decisions can not be challenged.

If you or your kids don't want to be put into that situation, play individual sports like tennis, golf, swimming or squash. The best players get to start and they settle this through match play. Those with the best record during the trial out will be starters. DS played varsity tennis for Flint Hill last year and the top player on the team was an absolute a hole but the coach couldn't do anything about it because he earned his top spot on the team by beating everyone.

You're delusional. What is being described at SJC is kids not being allowed to play on the school baseball team because they won't pay the coaches' private travel program in the offseason. These are kids who are already paying $20K per year to go to SJC. Do you really not see a problem with that?

It's a "team" sport. Coaches have control over who can and can not play. Your kid may look good to one coach but not to any coach because your kid does not "fit" into his system and there is nothing you can do about it.

If you don't like it, have your kid play individual sports. That way it takes the control away from coaches.

A coach could absolutely bench that tennis player you name called.

No the coach can not do that. As long as the tennis player does not violate team rules, in good academic standing, and beat everyone at tryouts for the spot, there is nothing the coach can do about it. Everything at tryouts is on record. If the coach tries to put in his own mediocre players, he will hear from both the parents and the Ad.

It depends. The best player on the team could have a bad attitude, or other behavior issues. Coach could bench that player. The problem is, many times they don't.....

They wouldn’t risk the team’s performance. The goal is to win, not to fix nasty boys.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If you're going to have your kids play team sports, then STFU. You should not be complaining. In team sports, coaches have all the powers and can decide who can play and who can sit on the bench. Coaches's decisions can not be challenged.

If you or your kids don't want to be put into that situation, play individual sports like tennis, golf, swimming or squash. The best players get to start and they settle this through match play. Those with the best record during the trial out will be starters. DS played varsity tennis for Flint Hill last year and the top player on the team was an absolute a hole but the coach couldn't do anything about it because he earned his top spot on the team by beating everyone.

You're delusional. What is being described at SJC is kids not being allowed to play on the school baseball team because they won't pay the coaches' private travel program in the offseason. These are kids who are already paying $20K per year to go to SJC. Do you really not see a problem with that?

It's a "team" sport. Coaches have control over who can and can not play. Your kid may look good to one coach but not to any coach because your kid does not "fit" into his system and there is nothing you can do about it.

If you don't like it, have your kid play individual sports. That way it takes the control away from coaches.

A coach could absolutely bench that tennis player you name called.

No the coach can not do that. As long as the tennis player does not violate team rules, in good academic standing, and beat everyone at tryouts for the spot, there is nothing the coach can do about it. Everything at tryouts is on record. If the coach tries to put in his own mediocre players, he will hear from both the parents and the Ad.

Coaches do whatever they want in individual sports as well. One of top US age group swimmers was kicked out from Rockville Montgomery 2 years ago, for a very minor reason, likely, just for parents asking too many questions. No parents or lawyer were called to administrator’s meeting with minor, a complete coach abuse of his position. Same applies to coaches behavior at other teams. There is nothing that parents can do except finding another team - no legal precedents, even though it’s often career affecting events for the athletes.

Why worry about doing anything else, it’s the coaches loss. Most coaches would love to have that type of kid. And I’d much rather the coach kick my kid off the team than play him wrong.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If you're going to have your kids play team sports, then STFU. You should not be complaining. In team sports, coaches have all the powers and can decide who can play and who can sit on the bench. Coaches's decisions can not be challenged.

If you or your kids don't want to be put into that situation, play individual sports like tennis, golf, swimming or squash. The best players get to start and they settle this through match play. Those with the best record during the trial out will be starters. DS played varsity tennis for Flint Hill last year and the top player on the team was an absolute a hole but the coach couldn't do anything about it because he earned his top spot on the team by beating everyone.

You're delusional. What is being described at SJC is kids not being allowed to play on the school baseball team because they won't pay the coaches' private travel program in the offseason. These are kids who are already paying $20K per year to go to SJC. Do you really not see a problem with that?

It's a "team" sport. Coaches have control over who can and can not play. Your kid may look good to one coach but not to any coach because your kid does not "fit" into his system and there is nothing you can do about it.

If you don't like it, have your kid play individual sports. That way it takes the control away from coaches.

A coach could absolutely bench that tennis player you name called.

No the coach can not do that. As long as the tennis player does not violate team rules, in good academic standing, and beat everyone at tryouts for the spot, there is nothing the coach can do about it. Everything at tryouts is on record. If the coach tries to put in his own mediocre players, he will hear from both the parents and the Ad.

Coaches do whatever they want in individual sports as well. One of top US age group swimmers was kicked out from Rockville Montgomery 2 years ago, for a very minor reason, likely, just for parents asking too many questions. No parents or lawyer were called to administrator’s meeting with minor, a complete coach abuse of his position. Same applies to coaches behavior at other teams. There is nothing that parents can do except finding another team - no legal precedents, even though it’s often career affecting events for the athletes.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If you're going to have your kids play team sports, then STFU. You should not be complaining. In team sports, coaches have all the powers and can decide who can play and who can sit on the bench. Coaches's decisions can not be challenged.
[b]
.

I think that’s how we got Penn State, MSU, LSU, UMD, UNC fake classes, etc. You go from having coaching autonomy to 100% autonomy in all things. These coaches aren’t gods - they need to be supervised. If they screw up, its the kids and the institution that gets damaged.

The U.S. is nearing the end of two dark decades of lax regulations in most areas of our economy and society. This thread is just another symptom of that larger problem. But the tide is beginning to turn, and very welcome regulations should accelerate right around Feb-March of 2021.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Prep kids are also encouraged to play more than one sport, which is not possible when playing year round baseball.

My son plays year round soccer and doesn't play a winter or spring sport for Prep. Prep has no issue with it.

-Prep parent

Yes, sorry. Not that some don’t play a sport year round, just that it’s not a negative to play more than 1. Not the case at SJC, at least in the sport we were interested in.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If you're going to have your kids play team sports, then STFU. You should not be complaining. In team sports, coaches have all the powers and can decide who can play and who can sit on the bench. Coaches's decisions can not be challenged.

If you or your kids don't want to be put into that situation, play individual sports like tennis, golf, swimming or squash. The best players get to start and they settle this through match play. Those with the best record during the trial out will be starters. DS played varsity tennis for Flint Hill last year and the top player on the team was an absolute a hole but the coach couldn't do anything about it because he earned his top spot on the team by beating everyone.

You're delusional. What is being described at SJC is kids not being allowed to play on the school baseball team because they won't pay the coaches' private travel program in the offseason. These are kids who are already paying $20K per year to go to SJC. Do you really not see a problem with that?

It's a "team" sport. Coaches have control over who can and can not play. Your kid may look good to one coach but not to any coach because your kid does not "fit" into his system and there is nothing you can do about it.

If you don't like it, have your kid play individual sports. That way it takes the control away from coaches.

A coach could absolutely bench that tennis player you name called.

No the coach can not do that. As long as the tennis player does not violate team rules, in good academic standing, and beat everyone at tryouts for the spot, there is nothing the coach can do about it. Everything at tryouts is on record. If the coach tries to put in his own mediocre players, he will hear from both the parents and the Ad.

It depends. The best player on the team could have a bad attitude, or other behavior issues. Coach could bench that player. The problem is, many times they don't.....