Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Aren’t letter grades pretty artificial as it is? Tests give objective numbers, yes, but they are generally given under artificial time constraints that favor those who can do it faster, not necessarily better. Also, many classes have a “participation” component that favors the extrovert who waxes philosophical nonsense to buffer test grades, while the introvert kid who deeply understands material may not. There is a lot of room for subjectivity there.

Also the difference between an 89 and a 90 is 1.1% but the difference between an A- and a B+ is >11% even though the A- student was “better” than the B+ student by the slimmest possible amount.

Finally, the meaning of letter grades is not fixed. In the middle of the 20th century the median grade was a C. Now the median grade at Harvard is an A. I don’t know if rampant grade inflation is good, bad, both or neither, but I am confident is not as “objective” as people like to think.

I know! Exactly! Just can all forms of measurement. Just set a low bar, call it mastery or proficiency, and watch everyone soar!!

Anonymous wrote:Nobody has time for mastery transcripts — the students, teachers, or admissions staff.

And if you’ve ever read a standards-based report card, it tells you nothing.

The interested parties all want to know how a student performs compared to their peer group.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Just sit and chat about the latest SJW book out.

And this describes which school's core curriculum?

Anonymous wrote:As others have said, St Ann's in Brooklyn has been doing this for decades and it hasn't hurt college admissions for its students in the least. That said...

Schemes like this tend to work best for students applying to colleges that have seen a lot of transcripts from these schools. If you're a St. Ann's student who wants to go to CalTech for engineering or even worse one who wants to go to Arizona State and major in business, I think you're going to have problems.

I think it also works well for subjects that are subjective. People will disagree as to which of the 3 top English students that year at a school like St. Ann's is actually the best writer in much the same way that different people will disagree as to which are the best English-language authors in the real world or even which book ought to win the Man Booker Prize this year.

But when it comes to physics or math? Then I think the student should make sure to take the AMC and Physics Olympiad exams. There need context that "best in his class at St.Ann's" isn't going to provide.

Another problem? I think the system really wroks best for students who don't rock the boat. I also don't think every high school teacher is a saint without biases. A male student may overlook the beautiful girl who is actually very good at physics because without even knowing it, he has this bias that beautiful girls are airheads or only good at the humanities. And the student who challenges teachers? Who refuses to admit that a teacher's favorite poet or book is "all that" ,,,I think that student will suffer.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The elite privates really shouldn’t have grades. To simply get admitted into an elite is an accomplishment — and once in, the rigor, depth and expectations are vastly superior to anything “taught” in a public, where kids are given all As for having a pulse. It’s just not fair.

That’s just…yuck.

Okay a couple of comments to restore sanity.

1. Many (most?) kids in local “elite” private schools were admitted in very early grades. They didn’t “accomplish” much of anything except being born to affluent parents and maybe being a little precocious at that tender age.

2. Public HSs do not hand out As like candy. Public schools may have their flaws (we chose private) but a kid going to one of the better MCPS or FCPS HSs and getting all As will be a very good student. A lot of these kids would be near the top of elite privates as well, especially if you include TJ and magnet programs.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think the mastery transcript solves so many problems with grades, be it inflation, or differences in rigor.
I don’t think I saw any of the big DC privates on the list.
That’s a shame.

However, it leaves so much more of your future to the subjective views and writing skills of each teacher and also highly favors the extrovert. Our kids have been in schools with that transcript and some teachers handled it very well and were thoughtful and thorough, while other manipulated it to make themselves look good (look how much this student improved under my tutelage), and others gave the same vague, random remarks for everyone as if selecting from a menu.

Basically all this is doing is turning over the college admissions process to the high school teachers -- tell us who you think we should accept with no room for the student to input contrary data, like standardized test scores.

Anonymous wrote:Aren’t letter grades pretty artificial as it is? Tests give objective numbers, yes, but they are generally given under artificial time constraints that favor those who can do it faster, not necessarily better. Also, many classes have a “participation” component that favors the extrovert who waxes philosophical nonsense to buffer test grades, while the introvert kid who deeply understands material may not. There is a lot of room for subjectivity there.

Also the difference between an 89 and a 90 is 1.1% but the difference between an A- and a B+ is >11% even though the A- student was “better” than the B+ student by the slimmest possible amount.

Finally, the meaning of letter grades is not fixed. In the middle of the 20th century the median grade was a C. Now the median grade at Harvard is an A. I don’t know if rampant grade inflation is good, bad, both or neither, but I am confident is not as “objective” as people like to think.

Anonymous wrote:As others have said, St Ann's in Brooklyn has been doing this for decades and it hasn't hurt college admissions for its students in the least. That said...

Schemes like this tend to work best for students applying to colleges that have seen a lot of transcripts from these schools. If you're a St. Ann's student who wants to go to CalTech for engineering or even worse one who wants to go to Arizona State and major in business, I think you're going to have problems.

I think it also works well for subjects that are subjective. People will disagree as to which of the 3 top English students that year at a school like St. Ann's is actually the best writer in much the same way that different people will disagree as to which are the best English-language authors in the real world or even which book ought to win the Man Booker Prize this year.

But when it comes to physics or math? Then I think the student should make sure to take the AMC and Physics Olympiad exams. There need context that "best in his class at St.Ann's" isn't going to provide.

Another problem? I think the system really wroks best for students who don't rock the boat. I also don't think every high school teacher is a saint without biases. A male student may overlook the beautiful girl who is actually very good at physics because without even knowing it, he has this bias that beautiful girls are airheads or only good at the humanities. And the student who challenges teachers? Who refuses to admit that a teacher's favorite poet or book is "all that" ,,,I think that student will suffer.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Just sit and chat about the latest SJW book out.

And this describes which school's core curriculum?

Anonymous wrote:Just sit and chat about the latest SJW book out.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I thought I’d revive this thread since the Washington Post covered this

https://www.washingtonpost.com/magazine/2021/10/20/crusade-end-grading-high-schools/

Here is the article that revived the thread. It explains the mastery transcript.

This is super interesting but given the inequalities in US - master transcript credits being based on schools not teachers sounds like it could sink entire shops of students pretty fast.

And if we continue to leave so many people behind, we will never catch up to world leaders in education in math, science and literacy.

https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2017/02/15/u-s-students-internationally-math-science/

Typo sorry - shops = ships … anyway you get the gist - so many disparities between public school systems let alone between private and public schools .

Loony sounds highly Innovative and forward thinking though … he started this system at a very elite school - can it be transplanted wifey elsewhere where schools and teachers are crippled by their students facing poverty, food and housing insecurities etc? Or is it only realistic for UMC private schools?