Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Fat person here. This. All day long. I don’t love being fat, I doubt anyone does. But I am so f$#&*%g tired of being looked down on, or ignored, or treated like a second class citizen because people assume I’m lazy, or dumb or whatever else (cue the aholes who will respond to this with those exact comments). Losing weight for me is really, really hard, because I hate going to the gym, have two small children, and yes, I don’t want to spend my life starving myself and working out that I hate just to please society. And I have two young girls that I don’t want to subject to body shaming or make self conscious of their own bodies. My mother obsessed about weight and being fat her whole life, and it has imprinted itself on my brain in negative talk. I do NOT want my daughters dealing with that. So yeah, I have learned to accept my body, teach them that women are beautiful at any size, it’s what’s inside that counts, and anyone who says otherwise can go pound sand.

So you are not lazy but you hate the gym, don't like to exercise, find it too hard to watch what you eat and blame your mom for your current size?

Stop being obnoxious. You know that’s not what she said, but you just twisted it so you can imply she’s lazy. I do not understand why people feel the need to be such bitches to people they do not know.

PP isn't being obnoxious. It's literally what the other PP said. She said she isn't lazy, but then said:

"I hate going to the gym"

"I don't want to spend my life starving myself" (hint: the majority of people don't need to starve themselves to attain a healthy weight -- yes I know SOME do, but not most)

"My mother was obsessed about weight and being fat and it has imprinted itself on my brain" -- blaming her mom

Newsflash: being healthy and working out isn't going to imprint negative, body-shaming crap on your daughters. In fact, it's an excellent example to show them.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Fat person here. This. All day long. I don’t love being fat, I doubt anyone does. But I am so f$#&*%g tired of being looked down on, or ignored, or treated like a second class citizen because people assume I’m lazy, or dumb or whatever else (cue the aholes who will respond to this with those exact comments). Losing weight for me is really, really hard, because I hate going to the gym, have two small children, and yes, I don’t want to spend my life starving myself and working out that I hate just to please society. And I have two young girls that I don’t want to subject to body shaming or make self conscious of their own bodies. My mother obsessed about weight and being fat her whole life, and it has imprinted itself on my brain in negative talk. I do NOT want my daughters dealing with that. So yeah, I have learned to accept my body, teach them that women are beautiful at any size, it’s what’s inside that counts, and anyone who says otherwise can go pound sand.

So you are not lazy but you hate the gym, don't like to exercise, find it too hard to watch what you eat and blame your mom for your current size?

Stop being obnoxious. You know that’s not what she said, but you just twisted it so you can imply she’s lazy. I do not understand why people feel the need to be such bitches to people they do not know.

Well, she did say that she hates going to the gym. So do I, but for health reasons, everyone needs some physical activity on a daily basis. It is lazy to use the "I don't like the gym" excuse.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There is a theory I have heard that I completely believe as they enter my 40s. Women that are objectively thin at this age are either a) genetically small. Look at their mothers and sisters. Or b) disordered.

or c) work hard at it (not the same thing as disordered)

Again, difference between fit and thin.

Women who are THIN as they age are a) or b) pretty much without fail. Exercise does not make you thin.

Making fat people feel bad or discrimated against is the last accepted form of discrimination in civilized societies. Seems like we always need someone to kick.

Anonymous wrote:

Fat person here. This. All day long. I don’t love being fat, I doubt anyone does. But I am so f$#&*%g tired of being looked down on, or ignored, or treated like a second class citizen because people assume I’m lazy, or dumb or whatever else (cue the aholes who will respond to this with those exact comments). Losing weight for me is really, really hard, because I hate going to the gym, have two small children, and yes, I don’t want to spend my life starving myself and working out that I hate just to please society. And I have two young girls that I don’t want to subject to body shaming or make self conscious of their own bodies. My mother obsessed about weight and being fat her whole life, and it has imprinted itself on my brain in negative talk. I do NOT want my daughters dealing with that. So yeah, I have learned to accept my body, teach them that women are beautiful at any size, it’s what’s inside that counts, and anyone who says otherwise can go pound sand.

So you are not lazy but you hate the gym, don't like to exercise, find it too hard to watch what you eat and blame your mom for your current size?

Stop being obnoxious. You know that’s not what she said, but you just twisted it so you can imply she’s lazy. I do not understand why people feel the need to be such bitches to people they do not know.

The question is: HOW MUCH does it affect or diminish? And how much more so than other players?

Big corporations get a tax break at our expense. Homeowners used to get breaks most people didn't.

Thin people get sick from stress and keto diets and drive up our healthcare costs.

We can't expect that living in a society is going to be net neutral for all.

We all win and lose at some point.

Railing against the unfairness of it all (which is debatable--I don't happen to think of it is as unfair) does nothing to enhance the quality of our lives.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think there are a lot of thin people who are like lot of rich people. A lot of rich people tell themselves they worked really hard and made tons of sacrifices and got to where they are on our own so no help for anyone else. They're super offended at the idea that someone might get a benefit that they didn't.

Some thin people are the same; they feel like they've sacrificed and worked hard and done everything they're supposed to do to be thin and they're outraged at the idea that not only is another person fat, but at person doesn't heat herself for being fat and is " making excuses."


I think both of these mindsets are really dangerous and counterproductive to your own mental health.

Other people's lives do not diminish your own.

This is a great example.

No it isn’t. Those with wealth have the money they worked hard for through ‘tons of sacrifices and no help from anyone else’ taken away from from them to fund the programs and benefits for those without wealth. They aren’t super offended that someone might get a benefit they didn’t. But they may be offended that more and more of their income will be taken away from them to fund those benefits- depending on political climate. They will be heavily funding free health care, free college, guaranteed income for all, and the various other social programs that are being proposed.

You are letting your politics ruin your argument: this is not at all what I said and you are creating false analogies.

But even so, you are making my point. Because they (me--I am a 1%er believe me or not) had it hard, some people want to make sure it is hard for others.

Guess what? I do not give one whit if someone gets an easier path than I had and I do not care if someone else is fat and happy when I have been thin and unhappy.

Because I am not unhappy anymore because shaming other people and making life harder for them does not make ME happier. I do not look at other people's lives for validation on how mine is going.

You may not give one whit and may want other people to have it easier, but some people do give a whit and will be forced to pay up anyhow. So what I am saying is to say that other without wealth do no effect those with is false. Same for thin and overweight people. The obesity epidemic drives up everyone's health care cost and puts a large stain on our entire healthcare system. We all live together and our deficiencies most certainly do effect others around us. I am not saying those that are overweight or in poverty deserve contempt but to claim they don't effect or diminish anyone else whatsoever isn't accurate

Fat person here. This. All day long. I don’t love being fat, I doubt anyone does. But I am so f$#&*%g tired of being looked down on, or ignored, or treated like a second class citizen because people assume I’m lazy, or dumb or whatever else (cue the aholes who will respond to this with those exact comments). Losing weight for me is really, really hard, because I hate going to the gym, have two small children, and yes, I don’t want to spend my life starving myself and working out that I hate just to please society. And I have two young girls that I don’t want to subject to body shaming or make self conscious of their own bodies. My mother obsessed about weight and being fat her whole life, and it has imprinted itself on my brain in negative talk. I do NOT want my daughters dealing with that. So yeah, I have learned to accept my body, teach them that women are beautiful at any size, it’s what’s inside that counts, and anyone who says otherwise can go pound sand.

So you are not lazy but you hate the gym, don't like to exercise, find it too hard to watch what you eat and blame your mom for your current size?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think there are a lot of thin people who are like lot of rich people. A lot of rich people tell themselves they worked really hard and made tons of sacrifices and got to where they are on our own so no help for anyone else. They're super offended at the idea that someone might get a benefit that they didn't.

Some thin people are the same; they feel like they've sacrificed and worked hard and done everything they're supposed to do to be thin and they're outraged at the idea that not only is another person fat, but at person doesn't heat herself for being fat and is " making excuses."


I think both of these mindsets are really dangerous and counterproductive to your own mental health.

Other people's lives do not diminish your own.

This is a great example.

No it isn’t. Those with wealth have the money they worked hard for through ‘tons of sacrifices and no help from anyone else’ taken away from from them to fund the programs and benefits for those without wealth. They aren’t super offended that someone might get a benefit they didn’t. But they may be offended that more and more of their income will be taken away from them to fund those benefits- depending on political climate. They will be heavily funding free health care, free college, guaranteed income for all, and the various other social programs that are being proposed.

You are letting your politics ruin your argument: this is not at all what I said and you are creating false analogies.

But even so, you are making my point. Because they (me--I am a 1%er believe me or not) had it hard, some people want to make sure it is hard for others.

Guess what? I do not give one whit if someone gets an easier path than I had and I do not care if someone else is fat and happy when I have been thin and unhappy.

Because I am not unhappy anymore because shaming other people and making life harder for them does not make ME happier. I do not look at other people's lives for validation on how mine is going.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think there are a lot of thin people who are like lot of rich people. A lot of rich people tell themselves they worked really hard and made tons of sacrifices and got to where they are on our own so no help for anyone else. They're super offended at the idea that someone might get a benefit that they didn't.

Some thin people are the same; they feel like they've sacrificed and worked hard and done everything they're supposed to do to be thin and they're outraged at the idea that not only is another person fat, but at person doesn't heat herself for being fat and is " making excuses."


I think both of these mindsets are really dangerous and counterproductive to your own mental health.

Other people's lives do not diminish your own.

This is a great example.

No it isn’t. Those with wealth have the money they worked hard for through ‘tons of sacrifices and no help from anyone else’ taken away from from them to fund the programs and benefits for those without wealth. They aren’t super offended that someone might get a benefit they didn’t. But they may be offended that more and more of their income will be taken away from them to fund those benefits- depending on political climate. They will be heavily funding free health care, free college, guaranteed income for all, and the various other social programs that are being proposed.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Ah. RDN. Those lovely ghouls who helped convince us all that dietary fat was the devil, that satiating butter, animal fat and egg yolks were worse for us than anything, that if we put butter on vegetables we might just as well not eat them. The period in which that was the advice coincided with America’s astonishing weight gain. Hmm.

No honey. Do you need a refresher course on the difference between "source" and "messenger"? Or maybe an RD hurt your family dog as a child, or something?

The scapegoat you're looking for is the USDA at the behest of elected officials from Midwestern farm states where commodity crops are grown.
https://health.gov/dietaryguidelines/dga95/12DIETAP.HTM

How the Ideology of Low Fat Conquered America
Journal of the History of Medicine and Allied Sciences, Volume 63, Issue 2, April 2008,
https://academic.oup.com/jhmas/article/63/2/139/772615

In relevant part:
"[t]he low-fat diet for weight reduction was already well in place before physicians and scientists began promoting it for cardiovascular health in the 1950s. The low-fat diet was part of our dieting tradition before the ideology of low fat conquered America."


?

Struck a nerve, did I? Your sources confirm what I said.

The cited works contradict what you claimed, that dieticians were the root cause of the low-fat diet advice. Contradict is different than confirm. Enjoy your atherosclerosis, though!

You can’t read, you hypersensitive RDN! I said “Those lovely ghouls who helped convince us all that dietary fat was the devil” Did or did not dieticians convey the low fat dogma to patients? I didn’t say the invented it (thanks, Ancel!), I said they helped convince us.

Also, why assume I’m developing atherosclerosis? Or wish it on someone? I’m confused what kind of angry defensive medical professional with a god complex might suggest that the dietary advice of an RDN is not infallible and in fact helped perpetrate the National obesity crisis.

Ok then, why do you focus blame on the messengers of the low-fat recommendations — the RDs — rather than the federal policymakers and scientists who actually developed the policy in the first place?

I'm not an RD, just someone who finds your overwrought and misguided bitterness a little odd.

NP but it read to me like that poster was saying why should we trust what the dietician in this thread is saying THIS time when in the past they have spread bad science that helped increase the obesity epidemic?

Dietitians aren’t to blame then or now for obesity. And many people that struggle with weight don’t do so because they lack the knowledge of what makes a healthy balanced diet, they struggle because food is their drug. They are addicted and cannot break the cycle because they emotionally rely on the comfort and feelings they get from it. And unlike drugs and alcohol, you can’t quit food. It is always there and you will always need to eat- which makes breaking that addiction ever so much harder.

They are, not in whole, but they’re the ones who communicated the dogma to us. They’re the ones who created the diets for patients. Immediately you jump to insulting every fat person, that all of them are pathetic food addicted losers - no, people can’t stop eating. There is no cold turkey for food.

I don’t recall reading or hearing about a lot of food addicted people before the 1990s when the low fat dogma deeply destabilized the diets of millions. Suddenly, the macronutrient that creates satiety without affecting blood sugar was off the table - don’t eat meat (too much saturated fat!), don’t eat avocados (too much fat!), don’t dress your veggies with butter (unhealthy at any amount! Too much fat!), don’t eat nuts (ahhhh! so much fat!), etc.

And here comes the smug RDN on this thread, acting like she has some hotline to god when your ilk is as much to blame for the fat epidemic as anyone. You pushed the message. In school meals, in school programs, in youth programs, on tv shows, county extension services, creating meal plans for post-surgical and post-diagnostic patients.... look around at all the pretty fat people and know that your field helped make them. Because there were people with genetic vulnerabilities and demonizing fat - with fairly shoddy evidence, frankly - put a match to their kindling.

So yeah. I’m annoyed with people who pretend to know but don’t admit what their field did.

Anonymous wrote:I think there are a lot of thin people who are like lot of rich people. A lot of rich people tell themselves they worked really hard and made tons of sacrifices and got to where they are on our own so no help for anyone else. They're super offended at the idea that someone might get a benefit that they didn't.

Some thin people are the same; they feel like they've sacrificed and worked hard and done everything they're supposed to do to be thin and they're outraged at the idea that not only is another person fat, but at person doesn't heat herself for being fat and is " making excuses."


I think both of these mindsets are really dangerous and counterproductive to your own mental health.

Other people's lives do not diminish your own.

This is a great example.

I think there are a lot of thin people who are like lot of rich people. A lot of rich people tell themselves they worked really hard and made tons of sacrifices and got to where they are on our own so no help for anyone else. They're super offended at the idea that someone might get a benefit that they didn't.

Some thin people are the same; they feel like they've sacrificed and worked hard and done everything they're supposed to do to be thin and they're outraged at the idea that not only is another person fat, but at person doesn't heat herself for being fat and is " making excuses."


I think both of these mindsets are really dangerous and counterproductive to your own mental health.

Other people's lives do not diminish your own.

DP here. Dietitians are not to blame for the obesity epidemic. low-fat was initially encouraged for cardiovascular health and still remains the standard there.

The rest is money and marketing.. Americans have seemingly always been and will continue to be swayed by bad fad diets promoted by hucksters. Cabbage soup, keto, Atkins, South Beach. It is marketing not nutritionist selling the stuff.

And definitely the USDA guidelines have been unduly influenced by two powerful lobbies in: dairy and.beef.

Meanwhile, we have food companies loading up food with more salt and sugar than ever before, fast-paced lifestyles that make it difficult to cook at home, convenience food at every location..

We live a more sedentary lifestyle, we have more stuff available to us than ever before, and no doubt there's probably some medical issue at play from chemicals and hormones. To some degree at least.

How we got here is not simple at all. And to be reductive is to miss a possibility in solving a problem.

One way that will never: shaming people for the bodies they live in.

a lot of people seem to feel that unless you're keeping shame on people you're accepting or enabling them. That is terrible and useless black and white thinking

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Ah. RDN. Those lovely ghouls who helped convince us all that dietary fat was the devil, that satiating butter, animal fat and egg yolks were worse for us than anything, that if we put butter on vegetables we might just as well not eat them. The period in which that was the advice coincided with America’s astonishing weight gain. Hmm.

No honey. Do you need a refresher course on the difference between "source" and "messenger"? Or maybe an RD hurt your family dog as a child, or something?

The scapegoat you're looking for is the USDA at the behest of elected officials from Midwestern farm states where commodity crops are grown.
https://health.gov/dietaryguidelines/dga95/12DIETAP.HTM

How the Ideology of Low Fat Conquered America
Journal of the History of Medicine and Allied Sciences, Volume 63, Issue 2, April 2008,
https://academic.oup.com/jhmas/article/63/2/139/772615

In relevant part:
"[t]he low-fat diet for weight reduction was already well in place before physicians and scientists began promoting it for cardiovascular health in the 1950s. The low-fat diet was part of our dieting tradition before the ideology of low fat conquered America."


?

Struck a nerve, did I? Your sources confirm what I said.

The cited works contradict what you claimed, that dieticians were the root cause of the low-fat diet advice. Contradict is different than confirm. Enjoy your atherosclerosis, though!

You can’t read, you hypersensitive RDN! I said “Those lovely ghouls who helped convince us all that dietary fat was the devil” Did or did not dieticians convey the low fat dogma to patients? I didn’t say the invented it (thanks, Ancel!), I said they helped convince us.

Also, why assume I’m developing atherosclerosis? Or wish it on someone? I’m confused what kind of angry defensive medical professional with a god complex might suggest that the dietary advice of an RDN is not infallible and in fact helped perpetrate the National obesity crisis.

Ok then, why do you focus blame on the messengers of the low-fat recommendations — the RDs — rather than the federal policymakers and scientists who actually developed the policy in the first place?

I'm not an RD, just someone who finds your overwrought and misguided bitterness a little odd.

NP but it read to me like that poster was saying why should we trust what the dietician in this thread is saying THIS time when in the past they have spread bad science that helped increase the obesity epidemic?

Dietitians aren’t to blame then or now for obesity. And many people that struggle with weight don’t do so because they lack the knowledge of what makes a healthy balanced diet, they struggle because food is their drug. They are addicted and cannot break the cycle because they emotionally rely on the comfort and feelings they get from it. And unlike drugs and alcohol, you can’t quit food. It is always there and you will always need to eat- which makes breaking that addiction ever so much harder.