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Anonymous wrote:I know almost nothing about the American College of Pediatricians. I know quite a bit more about the SPLC-my only view is that the SPLC is no longer a reliable source.
Frankly, I don't care what the ACP says. I already said that I am on the fence about a lot of the transgender issues as it relates to kids. It is a complicated issue and anyone who says otherwise is lying.

So, back to schools. How do you feel about transgenders and girl's sports? I strongly believe that transgender women should not be competing with biological girls.
I really don't care about bathrooms, and I am not too sure about locker rooms. Frankly, in my experience, girls are fairly modest and go into corners. I would think that might be more difficult in a boys' shower room for transgender boys.

I believe this is largely a fringe issue, even with policies, and the amount of time you spend worrying about it would be better focused on doing something more productive. You're carrying on like boys are pretending to be girls just for the sake of playing on a girl's team. Which just doesn't happen with any regularity.

Oh, really?! That's exactly what is happening. Boys who can't make the cut in boys' sports are finding a new avenue. Wake up, Shirley.

+ 1. That's exactly what is happening in Connecticut. Two boys who were middle-of-the-pack runners on the boys team switched to the girls team and started breaking the records for girl runners at the state level. Girls on teams there were not able to go to the regional competitions because their slots were taken by boys who "identified" as girls. No hormones or surgeries, just an identity change.

This is possibly the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard.

Yes, people are FAKE CHANGING THEIR GENDER IDENTITY so they can do better at high school sports?

HAHAHAHA!!

Yeah, because it's way more important to do better at high school sports than it is to not be discriminated against, be able to date people you are attracted to, and so on....

This is just dumb.

That’s exactly what happened in CT. Average male athletes switched their gender identification and started winning races and breaking records. They could have stayed on the boys team and dated who they wanted.

Can you please point me to the part where they actually faked their gender identity for this? I must have missed that.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Moderate here and I mostly agree with the pip. I also agree that being transgender is a mental illness.

Do you also consider homosexuality and hysteria to be mental illnesses?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2016/07/28/the-w-h-o-says-being-transgender-is-a-mental-illness-but-thats-about-to-change/

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:I know almost nothing about the American College of Pediatricians. I know quite a bit more about the SPLC-my only view is that the SPLC is no longer a reliable source.
Frankly, I don't care what the ACP says. I already said that I am on the fence about a lot of the transgender issues as it relates to kids. It is a complicated issue and anyone who says otherwise is lying.

So, back to schools. How do you feel about transgenders and girl's sports? I strongly believe that transgender women should not be competing with biological girls.
I really don't care about bathrooms, and I am not too sure about locker rooms. Frankly, in my experience, girls are fairly modest and go into corners. I would think that might be more difficult in a boys' shower room for transgender boys.

I believe this is largely a fringe issue, even with policies, and the amount of time you spend worrying about it would be better focused on doing something more productive. You're carrying on like boys are pretending to be girls just for the sake of playing on a girl's team. Which just doesn't happen with any regularity.

Oh, really?! That's exactly what is happening. Boys who can't make the cut in boys' sports are finding a new avenue. Wake up, Shirley.

+ 1. That's exactly what is happening in Connecticut. Two boys who were middle-of-the-pack runners on the boys team switched to the girls team and started breaking the records for girl runners at the state level. Girls on teams there were not able to go to the regional competitions because their slots were taken by boys who "identified" as girls. No hormones or surgeries, just an identity change.

This is possibly the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard.

Yes, people are FAKE CHANGING THEIR GENDER IDENTITY so they can do better at high school sports?

HAHAHAHA!!

Yeah, because it's way more important to do better at high school sports than it is to not be discriminated against, be able to date people you are attracted to, and so on....

This is just dumb.

That’s exactly what happened in CT. Average male athletes switched their gender identification and started winning races and breaking records. They could have stayed on the boys team and dated who they wanted.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I know almost nothing about the American College of Pediatricians. I know quite a bit more about the SPLC-my only view is that the SPLC is no longer a reliable source.
Frankly, I don't care what the ACP says. I already said that I am on the fence about a lot of the transgender issues as it relates to kids. It is a complicated issue and anyone who says otherwise is lying.

So, back to schools. How do you feel about transgenders and girl's sports? I strongly believe that transgender women should not be competing with biological girls.
I really don't care about bathrooms, and I am not too sure about locker rooms. Frankly, in my experience, girls are fairly modest and go into corners. I would think that might be more difficult in a boys' shower room for transgender boys.

I believe this is largely a fringe issue, even with policies, and the amount of time you spend worrying about it would be better focused on doing something more productive. You're carrying on like boys are pretending to be girls just for the sake of playing on a girl's team. Which just doesn't happen with any regularity.

Oh, really?! That's exactly what is happening. Boys who can't make the cut in boys' sports are finding a new avenue. Wake up, Shirley.

+ 1. That's exactly what is happening in Connecticut. Two boys who were middle-of-the-pack runners on the boys team switched to the girls team and started breaking the records for girl runners at the state level. Girls on teams there were not able to go to the regional competitions because their slots were taken by boys who "identified" as girls. No hormones or surgeries, just an identity change.

This is possibly the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard.

Yes, people are FAKE CHANGING THEIR GENDER IDENTITY so they can do better at high school sports?

HAHAHAHA!!

Yeah, because it's way more important to do better at high school sports than it is to not be discriminated against, be able to date people you are attracted to, and so on....

This is just dumb.

Anonymous wrote:That still doesn’t answer questions like sports and locker room access and punishing teachers for using the wrong pronouns. That’s what the school board is going to have to grapple with.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I know almost nothing about the American College of Pediatricians. I know quite a bit more about the SPLC-my only view is that the SPLC is no longer a reliable source.
Frankly, I don't care what the ACP says. I already said that I am on the fence about a lot of the transgender issues as it relates to kids. It is a complicated issue and anyone who says otherwise is lying.

So, back to schools. How do you feel about transgenders and girl's sports? I strongly believe that transgender women should not be competing with biological girls.
I really don't care about bathrooms, and I am not too sure about locker rooms. Frankly, in my experience, girls are fairly modest and go into corners. I would think that might be more difficult in a boys' shower room for transgender boys.

I believe this is largely a fringe issue, even with policies, and the amount of time you spend worrying about it would be better focused on doing something more productive. You're carrying on like boys are pretending to be girls just for the sake of playing on a girl's team. Which just doesn't happen with any regularity.

Oh, really?! That's exactly what is happening. Boys who can't make the cut in boys' sports are finding a new avenue. Wake up, Shirley.

+ 1. That's exactly what is happening in Connecticut. Two boys who were middle-of-the-pack runners on the boys team switched to the girls team and started breaking the records for girl runners at the state level. Girls on teams there were not able to go to the regional competitions because their slots were taken by boys who "identified" as girls. No hormones or surgeries, just an identity change.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Moderate here and I mostly agree with the pip. I also agree that being transgender is a mental illness.

Do you also consider homosexuality and hysteria to be mental illnesses?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2016/07/28/the-w-h-o-says-being-transgender-is-a-mental-illness-but-thats-about-to-change/

Why do you keep asking this? Who a person finds attractive is not the same thing as believing oneself to be a female when one is male or vice versa.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Moderate here and I mostly agree with the pip. I also agree that being transgender is a mental illness.

Do you also consider homosexuality and hysteria to be mental illnesses?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2016/07/28/the-w-h-o-says-being-transgender-is-a-mental-illness-but-thats-about-to-change/

Anonymous wrote:Moderate here and I mostly agree with the pip. I also agree that being transgender is a mental illness.

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Anonymous wrote:Very moderate Republican here, and I despise Trump - APS parent. Yes, gender dysphoria is a form of mental illness. Ask any physician. My friend's kid is trans, and they are taking an affirmation approach after consulting with many physicians. Even the trans kids' physicians say it is mental illness - a 5 year old boy who thinks he is a girl is not normal and no one questions that. The issue is how to make sure the child feels loved and has a happy life. Denying mental illness does not do that.

Calling everyone a bigoted gaslighter just turns people off. If you want social acceptance for these kids, don't act like one. And don't talk like one either - gaslight is slang - use the adult term - deception. I suspect you are a teenager.

Which doctor - in 2019 - considers it a “mental illness”?

Do you think homosexuality is a mental illness? APA thought it was until 1973.

“a 5 year old boy who thinks he is a girl is not normal” - yes, that’s bigoted.

How do adults say “gfy”?

You seriously think a 5yo boy who says he’s a girl is the same thing as same-sex attraction? It is not. One requires the denial of reality, the other is embracing reality. “GFY” indeed.

Spoken like a real bigot. Thanks.

Serious question, how is that bigoted?

It is intolerant and hateful.

Disagreeing about something or believing something in someone else's behavior is wrong is not bigotry or hatred toward the person exhibiting the behavior or feelings. Believing a 5 y/o may not actually be "trans" and may be dealing with something else is not hateful or bigoted toward the 5 y/o. It's just having a different opinion about what might be going on. A doctor who gives a patient a different diagnosis or recommends a different treatment from another doctor is not hateful or bigoted. They just have a different belief about what's going on and the best way to move forward.

Bigotry is "intolerance." So I guess it could be bigotry if a person is intolerant of the behavior - but there's a difference between intolerance of an act or behavior and an intolerance of people exhibiting the act or behavior. Nothing in any of these people's responses have indicated an intolerance of trans students or a hatred of them - just a belief that they are dealing with a mental condition. On the other hand, you and the likes of you making comments are quite clearly hostile toward and intolerant of those who have respectfully stated their belief and opinions which differ from yours. That makes you the bigot.

Very disrespectful and hateful. PPs are NOT tolerating what the reality is for trans people - they are dismissing it and think it’s wrong. Intolerant.

However you want to rationalize it.

Well, I guess I'm a bigot about murderers and drug dealers and prostitutes and women who have abortions and adulterers and executioners and swindlers and cheaters and liars and bullies and people who tell others to "gfy." I think their acts are wrong and their values and realities intolerable.

Are you equating trans people with murderers and drug dealers?

No. But I assumed you would assert that I was because you clearly refuse to see the point. You refuse or are unable to separate the act from the person. You can disagree with another person's belief or another person's morality without being a hateful bigot. Well, many people can - clearly you cannot.

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Anonymous wrote:Very moderate Republican here, and I despise Trump - APS parent. Yes, gender dysphoria is a form of mental illness. Ask any physician. My friend's kid is trans, and they are taking an affirmation approach after consulting with many physicians. Even the trans kids' physicians say it is mental illness - a 5 year old boy who thinks he is a girl is not normal and no one questions that. The issue is how to make sure the child feels loved and has a happy life. Denying mental illness does not do that.

Calling everyone a bigoted gaslighter just turns people off. If you want social acceptance for these kids, don't act like one. And don't talk like one either - gaslight is slang - use the adult term - deception. I suspect you are a teenager.

Which doctor - in 2019 - considers it a “mental illness”?

Do you think homosexuality is a mental illness? APA thought it was until 1973.

“a 5 year old boy who thinks he is a girl is not normal” - yes, that’s bigoted.

How do adults say “gfy”?

You seriously think a 5yo boy who says he’s a girl is the same thing as same-sex attraction? It is not. One requires the denial of reality, the other is embracing reality. “GFY” indeed.

Spoken like a real bigot. Thanks.

Serious question, how is that bigoted?

It is intolerant and hateful.

Disagreeing about something or believing something in someone else's behavior is wrong is not bigotry or hatred toward the person exhibiting the behavior or feelings. Believing a 5 y/o may not actually be "trans" and may be dealing with something else is not hateful or bigoted toward the 5 y/o. It's just having a different opinion about what might be going on. A doctor who gives a patient a different diagnosis or recommends a different treatment from another doctor is not hateful or bigoted. They just have a different belief about what's going on and the best way to move forward.

Bigotry is "intolerance." So I guess it could be bigotry if a person is intolerant of the behavior - but there's a difference between intolerance of an act or behavior and an intolerance of people exhibiting the act or behavior. Nothing in any of these people's responses have indicated an intolerance of trans students or a hatred of them - just a belief that they are dealing with a mental condition. On the other hand, you and the likes of you making comments are quite clearly hostile toward and intolerant of those who have respectfully stated their belief and opinions which differ from yours. That makes you the bigot.

Very disrespectful and hateful. PPs are NOT tolerating what the reality is for trans people - they are dismissing it and think it’s wrong. Intolerant.

However you want to rationalize it.

I sense you would describe anything other than 100% affirmation of transgender identity as hateful and bigoted. I don’t see how a conversation is possible in such circumstances.

If your response is anything other than: “Be who you are. We love you no matter what.” then you’re doing it wrong.

That still doesn’t answer questions like sports and locker room access and punishing teachers for using the wrong pronouns. That’s what the school board is going to have to grapple with.

But raising those questions is bigotry!!! And if any Board member "grapples" with it in any way deviant from the PP's response, they'll be bigots too!

Anonymous wrote:I am one of the PPs calling OP a bigot.

1. Lots of people have mental illness. I don’t hate them for it. My ex has severe debilitating mental illness that isn’t treatable. I don’t hate him. I accept him for who he is and help when I can. When treatment helps him, from his perspective, great. Why would someone who is trans be any different. My kid has some mental illness, I don’t hate her.

2. My friend’s 8 year old decided he was a girl around the age of 4. Of course the plan was to affirm the kid. What else is there to do. That doesn’t mean the kid isn’t mentally ill. Something is obviously very wrong if you are born with a male body and feel strongly that you are female. But we all love her and support her and take the challenges as they arise. But the kid is mentally ill and no one has any delusions otherwise. We don’t hate her, we treat her like a girl and love her regardless. That doesn’t make me or anyone else who loves this kid bigots. No one is pushing conversion therapy, but if the kid someday wants to dig into things, that option is there.

Mental illness is common and takes many forms. We don’t hate or act intolerant of those who have it. Finding a “cure” for a trans person probably isn’t appropriate for most. In the end happiness in one’s self is the cure- hence affirmation. Duh.

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:Very moderate Republican here, and I despise Trump - APS parent. Yes, gender dysphoria is a form of mental illness. Ask any physician. My friend's kid is trans, and they are taking an affirmation approach after consulting with many physicians. Even the trans kids' physicians say it is mental illness - a 5 year old boy who thinks he is a girl is not normal and no one questions that. The issue is how to make sure the child feels loved and has a happy life. Denying mental illness does not do that.

Calling everyone a bigoted gaslighter just turns people off. If you want social acceptance for these kids, don't act like one. And don't talk like one either - gaslight is slang - use the adult term - deception. I suspect you are a teenager.

Which doctor - in 2019 - considers it a “mental illness”?

Do you think homosexuality is a mental illness? APA thought it was until 1973.

“a 5 year old boy who thinks he is a girl is not normal” - yes, that’s bigoted.

How do adults say “gfy”?

You seriously think a 5yo boy who says he’s a girl is the same thing as same-sex attraction? It is not. One requires the denial of reality, the other is embracing reality. “GFY” indeed.

Spoken like a real bigot. Thanks.

Serious question, how is that bigoted?

It is intolerant and hateful.

Disagreeing about something or believing something in someone else's behavior is wrong is not bigotry or hatred toward the person exhibiting the behavior or feelings. Believing a 5 y/o may not actually be "trans" and may be dealing with something else is not hateful or bigoted toward the 5 y/o. It's just having a different opinion about what might be going on. A doctor who gives a patient a different diagnosis or recommends a different treatment from another doctor is not hateful or bigoted. They just have a different belief about what's going on and the best way to move forward.

Bigotry is "intolerance." So I guess it could be bigotry if a person is intolerant of the behavior - but there's a difference between intolerance of an act or behavior and an intolerance of people exhibiting the act or behavior. Nothing in any of these people's responses have indicated an intolerance of trans students or a hatred of them - just a belief that they are dealing with a mental condition. On the other hand, you and the likes of you making comments are quite clearly hostile toward and intolerant of those who have respectfully stated their belief and opinions which differ from yours. That makes you the bigot.

Very disrespectful and hateful. PPs are NOT tolerating what the reality is for trans people - they are dismissing it and think it’s wrong. Intolerant.

However you want to rationalize it.

I sense you would describe anything other than 100% affirmation of transgender identity as hateful and bigoted. I don’t see how a conversation is possible in such circumstances.

If your response is anything other than: “Be who you are. We love you no matter what.” then you’re doing it wrong.

That still doesn’t answer questions like sports and locker room access and punishing teachers for using the wrong pronouns. That’s what the school board is going to have to grapple with.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Very moderate Republican here, and I despise Trump - APS parent. Yes, gender dysphoria is a form of mental illness. Ask any physician. My friend's kid is trans, and they are taking an affirmation approach after consulting with many physicians. Even the trans kids' physicians say it is mental illness - a 5 year old boy who thinks he is a girl is not normal and no one questions that. The issue is how to make sure the child feels loved and has a happy life. Denying mental illness does not do that.

Calling everyone a bigoted gaslighter just turns people off. If you want social acceptance for these kids, don't act like one. And don't talk like one either - gaslight is slang - use the adult term - deception. I suspect you are a teenager.

Which doctor - in 2019 - considers it a “mental illness”?

Do you think homosexuality is a mental illness? APA thought it was until 1973.

“a 5 year old boy who thinks he is a girl is not normal” - yes, that’s bigoted.

How do adults say “gfy”?

You seriously think a 5yo boy who says he’s a girl is the same thing as same-sex attraction? It is not. One requires the denial of reality, the other is embracing reality. “GFY” indeed.

Spoken like a real bigot. Thanks.

Serious question, how is that bigoted?

It is intolerant and hateful.

Disagreeing about something or believing something in someone else's behavior is wrong is not bigotry or hatred toward the person exhibiting the behavior or feelings. Believing a 5 y/o may not actually be "trans" and may be dealing with something else is not hateful or bigoted toward the 5 y/o. It's just having a different opinion about what might be going on. A doctor who gives a patient a different diagnosis or recommends a different treatment from another doctor is not hateful or bigoted. They just have a different belief about what's going on and the best way to move forward.

Bigotry is "intolerance." So I guess it could be bigotry if a person is intolerant of the behavior - but there's a difference between intolerance of an act or behavior and an intolerance of people exhibiting the act or behavior. Nothing in any of these people's responses have indicated an intolerance of trans students or a hatred of them - just a belief that they are dealing with a mental condition. On the other hand, you and the likes of you making comments are quite clearly hostile toward and intolerant of those who have respectfully stated their belief and opinions which differ from yours. That makes you the bigot.

Very disrespectful and hateful. PPs are NOT tolerating what the reality is for trans people - they are dismissing it and think it’s wrong. Intolerant.

However you want to rationalize it.

Well, I guess I'm a bigot about murderers and drug dealers and prostitutes and women who have abortions and adulterers and executioners and swindlers and cheaters and liars and bullies and people who tell others to "gfy." I think their acts are wrong and their values and realities intolerable.

Are you equating trans people with murderers and drug dealers?