Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I wonder why it is not racist when the blacks think mixing black and white students could improve black students’ acadamic performance? Doesnt that indicate black students cannot learn in schools by themselves?

I wonder this too. I'd honestly feel so embarrassed to be black and know that my only option for a decent education was to escape the people of my own color or to at least bring in enough white people to dilute them.

I'm a woman in a technical field and it annoys me to no end when there are events like "math for girls" and "IT for girls", as if we're second class citizens who can't keep up with the real stuff. No thanks.

The relevant people for providing useful information about what it feels like to be [something - in this case, black] are: people who are [that thing].

Here is a list of people who do not provide useful information about what it feels like to be [that thing]: people who are not [that thing].

So tell us, PP. What does it feel like to be a black person and to know that apparently the only hope for people of your color to get a decent education is to mix in some white kids? (Genuine question.) And what exactly do you think is happening in that case? Is it so the white kids can teach the black kids stuff in class, or so the entire class isn't full of disciplinary problems so the teacher has a fighting chance of keeping some control because you see white kids as better behaved, or so the white kids can show the black kids what doing homework is like, or so white kids can show black kids what it's like to sit down and do their work, or something else? And is it any white kid that would do, or it needs to be an UMC white kid for this idea to work?

If we can understand what the reason is that you think you need white kids in your classes for the black kids to be able to learn to read and write and count the way the white kids seem to be able to do, maybe we can come up with some other ideas that can help. But I'm honestly at a loss right now, and I imagine that other people probably are as well.

Oh, and I have a PhD and do not buy into that "definitive study" referenced above. Please give an actual reason, even if it's just a guess.

Glad you have a PhD.

The study above lays out that the factor most affecting student achievement for the positive is economic integration. It also looks.at race independently, and it is.more than fair to say that 50 years later we can see how those can intersect.

My theory, backed up by experience and studies? Concentrated poverty in schools harms student achievement, denies those students opportunities, and is u unjust and unjustified. This county's income segregation, which manifests itself in the racial composition, farms rates, and esol rates of the schools promotes that injustice. We have a moral obligation to change that.

It isn't "sprinkling white kids." It is working to dismantle the segregation of schools to improve achievement for all students.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I wonder why it is not racist when the blacks think mixing black and white students could improve black students’ acadamic performance? Doesnt that indicate black students cannot learn in schools by themselves?

I wonder this too. I'd honestly feel so embarrassed to be black and know that my only option for a decent education was to escape the people of my own color or to at least bring in enough white people to dilute them.

I'm a woman in a technical field and it annoys me to no end when there are events like "math for girls" and "IT for girls", as if we're second class citizens who can't keep up with the real stuff. No thanks.

The relevant people for providing useful information about what it feels like to be [something - in this case, black] are: people who are [that thing].

Here is a list of people who do not provide useful information about what it feels like to be [that thing]: people who are not [that thing].

So tell us, PP. What does it feel like to be a black person and to know that apparently the only hope for people of your color to get a decent education is to mix in some white kids? (Genuine question.) And what exactly do you think is happening in that case? Is it so the white kids can teach the black kids stuff in class, or so the entire class isn't full of disciplinary problems so the teacher has a fighting chance of keeping some control because you see white kids as better behaved, or so the white kids can show the black kids what doing homework is like, or so white kids can show black kids what it's like to sit down and do their work, or something else? And is it any white kid that would do, or it needs to be an UMC white kid for this idea to work?

If we can understand what the reason is that you think you need white kids in your classes for the black kids to be able to learn to read and write and count the way the white kids seem to be able to do, maybe we can come up with some other ideas that can help. But I'm honestly at a loss right now, and I imagine that other people probably are as well.

Oh, and I have a PhD and do not buy into that "definitive study" referenced above. Please give an actual reason, even if it's just a guess.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I wonder why it is not racist when the blacks think mixing black and white students could improve black students’ acadamic performance? Doesnt that indicate black students cannot learn in schools by themselves?

I wonder this too. I'd honestly feel so embarrassed to be black and know that my only option for a decent education was to escape the people of my own color or to at least bring in enough white people to dilute them.

I'm a woman in a technical field and it annoys me to no end when there are events like "math for girls" and "IT for girls", as if we're second class citizens who can't keep up with the real stuff. No thanks.

The relevant people for providing useful information about what it feels like to be [something - in this case, black] are: people who are [that thing].

Here is a list of people who do not provide useful information about what it feels like to be [that thing]: people who are not [that thing].

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I wonder why it is not racist when the blacks think mixing black and white students could improve black students’ acadamic performance? Doesnt that indicate black students cannot learn in schools by themselves?

I wonder this too. I'd honestly feel so embarrassed to be black and know that my only option for a decent education was to escape the people of my own color or to at least bring in enough white people to dilute them.

I'm a woman in a technical field and it annoys me to no end when there are events like "math for girls" and "IT for girls", as if we're second class citizens who can't keep up with the real stuff. No thanks.

The relevant people for providing useful information about what it feels like to be [something - in this case, black] are: people who are [that thing].

Here is a list of people who do not provide useful information about what it feels like to be [that thing]: people who are not [that thing].

Anonymous wrote:You get a white kid, Blair gets some white kids, Kennedy gets a white kid, Wheaton we have some white kids for you.




Sorry Einstein, we ran out

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
The relevant people for providing useful information about what it feels like to be [something - in this case, black] are: people who are [that thing].

Here is a list of people who do not provide useful information about what it feels like to be [that thing]: people who are not [that thing].

The people who are [that thing] are rarely in agreement with each other about what are the best actions to take.

Anonymous wrote:
The relevant people for providing useful information about what it feels like to be [something - in this case, black] are: people who are [that thing].

Here is a list of people who do not provide useful information about what it feels like to be [that thing]: people who are not [that thing].

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I wonder why it is not racist when the blacks think mixing black and white students could improve black students’ acadamic performance? Doesnt that indicate black students cannot learn in schools by themselves?

I wonder this too. I'd honestly feel so embarrassed to be black and know that my only option for a decent education was to escape the people of my own color or to at least bring in enough white people to dilute them.

I'm a woman in a technical field and it annoys me to no end when there are events like "math for girls" and "IT for girls", as if we're second class citizens who can't keep up with the real stuff. No thanks.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Could someone explain the benefits of being around low performing kids from uneducated families for higher performing kids of college educated parents?
My child has been in a school over 50% farms/ESOL and honestly there were only two benefits: tons of free stuff for the whole school and yummy food at festivals.
But I am sure I am narrow minded so I want to expand my horizons.

Well, there's learning about the society your child is growing up into, of course.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Could someone explain the benefits of being around low performing kids from uneducated families for higher performing kids of college educated parents?
My child has been in a school over 50% farms/ESOL and honestly there were only two benefits: tons of free stuff for the whole school and yummy food at festivals.
But I am sure I am narrow minded so I want to expand my horizons.

One possible benefit is that it's easier for your child to be at the top of the class which might make help to get into college. It's also possible that the classes might be graded less harshly, which also might help.

Are you saying my kid might get graded like a brown kid and appear like an elite white kid without working for it?

I am the original poster of this question. I didn’t post about “brown kids” (someone else jumped into the discussion).
But this grading/rating issue will not come into play until high school, won’t it?
What are the benefits in elementary and middle?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Could someone explain the benefits of being around low performing kids from uneducated families for higher performing kids of college educated parents?
My child has been in a school over 50% farms/ESOL and honestly there were only two benefits: tons of free stuff for the whole school and yummy food at festivals.
But I am sure I am narrow minded so I want to expand my horizons.

One possible benefit is that it's easier for your child to be at the top of the class which might make help to get into college. It's also possible that the classes might be graded less harshly, which also might help.

Are you saying my kid might get graded like a brown kid and appear like an elite white kid without working for it?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I wonder why it is not racist when the blacks think mixing black and white students could improve black students’ acadamic performance? Doesnt that indicate black students cannot learn in schools by themselves?

I wonder this too. I'd honestly feel so embarrassed to be black and know that my only option for a decent education was to escape the people of my own color or to at least bring in enough white people to dilute them.

I'm a woman in a technical field and it annoys me to no end when there are events like "math for girls" and "IT for girls", as if we're second class citizens who can't keep up with the real stuff. No thanks.

That isn't the purpose of events like that.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I wonder why it is not racist when the blacks think mixing black and white students could improve black students’ acadamic performance? Doesnt that indicate black students cannot learn in schools by themselves?

I wonder this too. I'd honestly feel so embarrassed to be black and know that my only option for a decent education was to escape the people of my own color or to at least bring in enough white people to dilute them.

I'm a woman in a technical field and it annoys me to no end when there are events like "math for girls" and "IT for girls", as if we're second class citizens who can't keep up with the real stuff. No thanks.

Anonymous wrote:I wonder why it is not racist when the blacks think mixing black and white students could improve black students’ acadamic performance? Doesnt that indicate black students cannot learn in schools by themselves?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

the goal of MCPS is to eliminate the achievement gap. You do that by spreading out the higher and lower performers equally to all schools so everyone floats to the mean. The goal is to have average schools everywhere no more good or bad schools

Parents on this boars are being deliberately obtuse. Pushing for socioeconomic diversity in schools leads to better performance outcomes (definitive study cited upthread). Full stop. Show me in the data that it *reduces* outcomes for some.

For the last 50 years, parents have used arguments like the above, or other which are appallingly classist or racist to 1) fight against integration, economic or racial and 2) justify white flight.

There's no such thing as a "definitive" study. This is the social science field; they're currently in the midst of a replication crisis because a large portion of the studies they've done can't be replicated. Do researchers study the effects of this integration on the higher performing students? Most studies I've read don't, and from what I've seen education researchers don't really care. The government tried something like this on a large scale (moving to opportunity) and there were no educational gains. In fact, almost all educational interventions show no lasting gains.

Honestly, if this integration was a magic bullet then the problem would have been solved by now. What are you going to suggest we do once this also fails?

Anonymous wrote:The Coleman report is considered the definitive study on these factors. Conducted after the civil rights act of 1964 (and published 12 years after Brown) it looked comprehensively at the factors driving student achievement.

Of all the factors, school composition (racial and socioeconomic ) had the highest relationship.

Whole study: https://files.eric.ed.gov/fulltext/ED012275.pdf
Relevant summary section: 1.4
Relevant data and how they define: 2.4
Impacts of school composition on student achievement: section 3


Here is an even easier to digest more recent summary of studies from Ohio State: http://www.kirwaninstitute.osu.edu/reports/2009/02_2009_EducationIntegrationBenefitsReport.pdf

I don’t know why I’m doing this - this data and this information has been out there for *50* years. Yet parents have been fighting against this data for *50* years with the anecdotal data and verve we’ve seen on all these threads.