Like others, I felt sick, just sick, watching this. I cried more than once (and I am not a cry-er normally).

That others on this thread attest to Jackson's innocence based on his family's appeals and testimonies from others is ... disheartening and in some cases disingenuous. MANY families will deny the possibility that their loved ones have engaged in criminality (especially sexual molestation); in this case, there is also considerable financial repercussion if the MJ industry suffers from the documentary and other allegations. As to the 2005 jury finding MJ innocent: Jackson himself attested to his 'love' for the community and I cannot help but think his presence was vital to the community's financial well-being due to tourism among other things. Further, watching videotaped interviews with the jurors (contemporaneous) reveals that jurors are human ... for instance, one woman seeming to dismiss the claims of a child because his mother "snapped her fingers at [the jury]" with two others stating they believed something was wrong but the evidence wasn't compelling. OF COURSE it wasn't: exactly what kind of evidence would a smart man with dozens of attorneys and employees charged with protecting him have let 'live' in the wake of sleepovers and more such as described.

Further --
Several years ago, I was told by an authority on pedophilia that a 'telltale' sign of molesters who have access to children (in this case, a teacher in the DC area) is that they 'act" like and 'play' with children the age of those they're victimizing. Such play is well-established in Jackson's case and is evident not only in 'Leaving Neverland' but in reams of video and photographic evidence throughout the years.

Robson is very careful to say this is not 'repressed memory syndrome' (2013 interview with Lauer). He also notes, as does Safechuck, that they were both terrified to tell the truth because Jackson had threatened them and told them they would go to jail, etc., if they told of how they expressed their "love." Similarly, others I know who were molested by beloved family friends. In one case, a godfather told his young goddaughter (whom he raped for years) that if she told he would 'kill you and your pretty little sister, too.' She kept quiet until a nervous breakdown/suicide attempt in her 20's. In another case, the young woman was hospitalized shortly after confiding of the rape/molestation, which had been a complicating factor in her anorexia. In both of these cases, the young women were all-star students at top SLAC's in the 1980's and 1990's: NO ONE would have "guessed." And I am quite sure they would have lied to no end had they been confronted before they were ready to tell their truth. Robson makes clear that he feared his career would be destroyed if he had told the truth in earlier years, and he also was clear that he was beholden to Jackson for some level of his fame at that time.

Both men explain that having their own young children (sons) also led to their disclosures. My understanding from therapists who specialize in child abuse is that having a newborn/raising a child often reawakens feelings and concerns (and repressed memories in some cases): this is consistent with their statements.

I know my thoughts won't sway those compelled to believe Jackson was innocent of these charges. I can only hope, though, that they might help plant a seed just in case those individuals ever find themselves hearing from a loved one about abuse s/he has suffered, either a couple of days ago or a dozen years ago. Nothing is more searing, and no one needs support more than victims such as these.

The Oprah follow up was very good. My heart breaks for those men who lost their childhood to that monster.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is there any physical proof any of these allegations actually happened? From anyone who wasn't paid millions, and who didn't lie under oath more than once?

You mean, other than the one child who was able to draw the marks on his penis? Or Evan Chandler's alleged audiotape from a weekend MJ spent in his son's bedroom? You know, the one case the MJ settled, and said he settled because he was being blackmailed? What do you think they were using to blackmail him?

Those claims were dismissed because they didn't accurately match. Evan Chandler was an opportunist, and extortionist. What a poor example. I think these 2 men are doing a huge disservice to actual victims.

They DID match! Geez, why are you in such denial of facts??

Not only that but Jackson settled with the Chandlers for $22 million. Jordan Chandler has not been heard from in 24 years. Talk about PTSD.

And Gavin Arvizo testified against him. But hey, there's no physical evidence so Jackson must be innocent, right?

I would assume settlements came with NDAs or some such silencing clause. Not to negate the probability of PTSD, though.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is there any physical proof any of these allegations actually happened? From anyone who wasn't paid millions, and who didn't lie under oath more than once?

You mean, other than the one child who was able to draw the marks on his penis? Or Evan Chandler's alleged audiotape from a weekend MJ spent in his son's bedroom? You know, the one case the MJ settled, and said he settled because he was being blackmailed? What do you think they were using to blackmail him?

Those claims were dismissed because they didn't accurately match. Evan Chandler was an opportunist, and extortionist. What a poor example. I think these 2 men are doing a huge disservice to actual victims.

They DID match! Geez, why are you in such denial of facts??

Not only that but Jackson settled with the Chandlers for $22 million. Jordan Chandler has not been heard from in 24 years. Talk about PTSD.

And Gavin Arvizo testified against him. But hey, there's no physical evidence so Jackson must be innocent, right?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is there any physical proof any of these allegations actually happened? From anyone who wasn't paid millions, and who didn't lie under oath more than once?

You mean, other than the one child who was able to draw the marks on his penis? Or Evan Chandler's alleged audiotape from a weekend MJ spent in his son's bedroom? You know, the one case the MJ settled, and said he settled because he was being blackmailed? What do you think they were using to blackmail him?

Those claims were dismissed because they didn't accurately match. Evan Chandler was an opportunist, and extortionist. What a poor example. I think these 2 men are doing a huge disservice to actual victims.

They DID match! Geez, why are you in such denial of facts??

None of the MJ defenders watched the HBO special. It’s not possible to defend him after watching it, and especially the Oprah follow up. This is how long term sexual abuse works. The way it played out with these accusers is pretty understandable and expected. The defenders clearly haven’t watched the special, and clearly don’t understand how this form of abuse works.

Pp above. I also think one thing that adds to their credibility is the fact that it really took until they became fathers, themselves, to recognize the abuse for what it was— abuse. They were made to LOVE Jackson. They couldn’t see themselves as victims when they felt so much love, and were made to feel loved and special. Only through imagining their childhood experience if it happened to their sons were they able to recognize what had been done to them as innocent, naive, trusting, accepting children.

I just finished watching the documentary and the Oprah follow up show. I find it hard to believe that any of the MJ defenders on here have done so. The grooming of the boys and their families was so insidious and so extensive. MJ also anticipated his defense against allegations by drilling into the boys from the beginning how to respond and defend him, convincing them that their two fates were intertwined. He drove a wedge between the boys and their families so that the boys would feel a profound allegiance to him.

Oprah really adds a lot, as well, and I’m not normally a big fan of hers. She has been trying to counter misconceptions about sexual abuse for years, and the stories of these boys really bring home what she’s tried to convey, in a way that you can only really do with such a thorough telling of their experiences.

Michael was a musical genius but he was also a pedophile. I was a huge MJ fan back in the 80s, he was all over my walls. I watched the HBO doc and I totally believe the men. Can you imagine this happening to you at 7 years old. Their abuse started at such young ages, can you imagine how that scars your soul? So what they lied on the stand before. There are families where this abuse happens and people are not able to open up and tell someone for decades. It was sad that both families were so blinded by the glitz and glam that they only saw what they wanted to see. Come on. A grown man is on the phone with my 7 year, my 10 year old for hours on end. I cant stay in the same room with my child. Forget that nonsense that MJ didnt live his childhood. Bullsh*t. Also his claim that he would never hurt a child. I'm sure in his sick mind he truly believed he was not hurting the child. MJ was a master manipulator and child molester/rapist. As long as we as a society close our eyes we will never stop the monsters who live among us.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is there any physical proof any of these allegations actually happened? From anyone who wasn't paid millions, and who didn't lie under oath more than once?

You mean, other than the one child who was able to draw the marks on his penis? Or Evan Chandler's alleged audiotape from a weekend MJ spent in his son's bedroom? You know, the one case the MJ settled, and said he settled because he was being blackmailed? What do you think they were using to blackmail him?

Those claims were dismissed because they didn't accurately match. Evan Chandler was an opportunist, and extortionist. What a poor example. I think these 2 men are doing a huge disservice to actual victims.

Question: why in the world are you defending Michael Jackson? It blows my MiND. Explain, what it is about him that makes you stick by him.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:https://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/2019/03/10-undeniable-facts-about-the-michael-jackson-sexual-abuse-allegations?fbclid=IwAR1FJ7Gzw9JVJWbkBIgtPzu4LIf9PQPBrvl0ycUu61Iy2GpXi9WxS5uL-Ps

10 Undeniable Fact About the Michal Jackson Sexual Abuse Allegations

From this list. Proof enough yet?

4. Michael Jackson suffered from the skin discoloration disease vitiligo. Jordie Chandler drew a picture of the markings on the underside of Jackson’s penis. His drawings were sealed in an envelope. A few months later, investigators photographed Jackson’s genitalia. The photographs matched Chandler’s drawings.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wade Robson is extremely successful and in the entertainment industry. (Also, allegedly the persons Britney Spears cheated on Justin Timberlake with way back when; he directed/choreographed the tour she was about to do at the time.) There is literally no reason he would ever make this up.

Wade Robson WAS successful and it dried up. And he would have several reasons to make it up, beginning with the fact that he shopped a bak that was turned down by every publisher and the Jackson family turned him down to choreography a MJ theme Cirque du Soleil. I'm not saying he's lying, but he also has several reasons to not be credible.

I would imagine being abused as child might make mess you up enough that you have loads of issues later in life.

Anonymous wrote:Wade Robson is extremely successful and in the entertainment industry. (Also, allegedly the persons Britney Spears cheated on Justin Timberlake with way back when; he directed/choreographed the tour she was about to do at the time.) There is literally no reason he would ever make this up.

Wade Robson WAS successful and it dried up. And he would have several reasons to make it up, beginning with the fact that he shopped a bak that was turned down by every publisher and the Jackson family turned him down to choreography a MJ theme Cirque du Soleil. I'm not saying he's lying, but he also has several reasons to not be credible.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is there any physical proof any of these allegations actually happened? From anyone who wasn't paid millions, and who didn't lie under oath more than once?

You mean, other than the one child who was able to draw the marks on his penis? Or Evan Chandler's alleged audiotape from a weekend MJ spent in his son's bedroom? You know, the one case the MJ settled, and said he settled because he was being blackmailed? What do you think they were using to blackmail him?

Those claims were dismissed because they didn't accurately match. Evan Chandler was an opportunist, and extortionist. What a poor example. I think these 2 men are doing a huge disservice to actual victims.

Anonymous wrote:Is there any physical proof any of these allegations actually happened? From anyone who wasn't paid millions, and who didn't lie under oath more than once?

You mean, other than the one child who was able to draw the marks on his penis? Or Evan Chandler's alleged audiotape from a weekend MJ spent in his son's bedroom? You know, the one case the MJ settled, and said he settled because he was being blackmailed? What do you think they were using to blackmail him?