Anonymous
Post 12/11/2018 19:58     Subject: Re:Holding APS Leadership, Staff and School Board Accountable for the Boundary Mess
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Here's the thing about trying to bully someone into doing what you want. One element of bullying is that the bully has to have some kind of power over the person being bullied, such as physical strength, social influence, etc. SA has no power over NA, so you're not in a position to bully them into anything. If you want their help, you need to try a different tactic because all this one is doing is causing them to roll their eyes and tune you out.


Yes, and that's exactly the problem. NA helps itself by confining AH to SA. It's not just that it creates segregated schools in SA, it's that it creates "high performing schools" in NA by allowing that portion of the county to get ever richer, ever more exclusive. It's not doable. This housing policy pits a larger, wealthier, and better resourced north against a poorer, smaller, less politically powerful south. By design.


If that were actually what was happening, you'd have a point. But it's not. Overall, people in NA tend to oppose the expansion of AH everywhere in the county, not just in their own neighborhoods. The advocates for AH tend to come from SA, and they are the ones choosing to put it in SA.
Anonymous
Post 12/11/2018 19:39     Subject: Re:Holding APS Leadership, Staff and School Board Accountable for the Boundary Mess
Anonymous wrote:Here's the thing about trying to bully someone into doing what you want. One element of bullying is that the bully has to have some kind of power over the person being bullied, such as physical strength, social influence, etc. SA has no power over NA, so you're not in a position to bully them into anything. If you want their help, you need to try a different tactic because all this one is doing is causing them to roll their eyes and tune you out.


Yes, and that's exactly the problem. NA helps itself by confining AH to SA. It's not just that it creates segregated schools in SA, it's that it creates "high performing schools" in NA by allowing that portion of the county to get ever richer, ever more exclusive. It's not doable. This housing policy pits a larger, wealthier, and better resourced north against a poorer, smaller, less politically powerful south. By design.
Anonymous
Post 12/11/2018 18:23     Subject: Holding APS Leadership, Staff and School Board Accountable for the Boundary Mess
There’s hypocrisy/contradictions on these threads everywhere.

CH parents making fun of SF parents’ dramatics and weak arguments and calling them racists. Then CH engages in the exact same behavior.

Everyone else judging those two communities for advocating for staying at neighborhood schools with lower FARMs rates because the only motivation for that is racism. But at the same time everyone saying Nauck should get a neighborhood school because neighborhood schools are important for a sense of community and ease of commute and allow for participation in extracurriculars. Oh and also the Nauck school should be lower in FARMs because that’s important. Not saying that Nauck doesn’t totally deserve a good neighborhood school with decent FARMs rates — but it’s a little contradictory to dismiss others’ concerns as simply racism when you’re saying out of the other side of your mouth that there’s some benefit to proximity to your home/neighbors and balanced FARMs rates.

Concentrating ED students in certain schools is racist and may limit opportunities. But acknowledging research on the effects of segregated schools is racist because it implies ED (and disproportionately minority) kids aren’t as motivated or capable.

CH is racist for being nervous about sending their kids to a new/historically underresourced and underperforming school because they’re all good schools and it’s fine! But it’s legitimate for minorities in the underperforming school zones to have such concerns about their kids’ education and demand equity.

Everyone who lives in NA is racist for living in good school zones. But SA UMC aren’t racist for all living near/overcrowding PH and Oakridge (or opting into a choice school) or for wishing they lived in a good school zone.

TLDR: my actions trying to have a good school for my kids are legit but everyone else is racist.

Almost everyone is just trying to give their kid the best education they can afford. People in richer neighborhoods’ actions are perpetuating racism because racist policies have shaped the housing and school situations. But it’s totally understandable behavior. So much catty hypocritical ugliness here. Can’t we all be a little nicer to each other?
Anonymous
Post 12/11/2018 17:39     Subject: Re:Holding APS Leadership, Staff and School Board Accountable for the Boundary Mess
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Here's the thing about trying to bully someone into doing what you want. One element of bullying is that the bully has to have some kind of power over the person being bullied, such as physical strength, social influence, etc. SA has no power over NA, so you're not in a position to bully them into anything. If you want their help, you need to try a different tactic because all this one is doing is causing them to roll their eyes and tune you out.


Not sure what tactic you're referring to here. The question was asked what NA could be doing to help. Other commentators aside, that question was answered - without snark, without calling anyone racist, with no bullying. Just what does it take to appease you? Perhaps you should tell us what SA needs to do to garner NA's help, then? Just what answer are you looking for?


Have you not read the rest of this thread, like the attacks that anyone who bought in NA did so with specific contemplation of how to avoid sending their kids to school with non-white, non-affluent kids? The other thread where NA residents are currently being called liars for saying the commute to their places of employment is easier from NA than SA, despite having pointed to specific routes to specific locations where it’s faster? Berating NA residents isn’t going to get them to sign on with you.
Anonymous
Post 12/11/2018 17:05     Subject: Holding APS Leadership, Staff and School Board Accountable for the Boundary Mess
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Contiguity is important, as is making schools be close to people's homes. Look at the Rosslyn island for middle school highschool -- there's a reason it was removed for middle school this past go around. Those kids have a very hard time getting to and from school without school buses. This makes it so they can't do after school activities and parents can't be as engaged in the school. These are not things that as a community we should be ignoring because of a need to establish desirable demographics. There has to be a middle ground.


The Rosslyn island disappeared because of the new middle school and adding some W-L neighborhoods to Yorktown, not because being a few miles from Williamsburg and Yorktown was such a BFD. The need to balance demographics is far more important than your dismissive comments suggest.


I see a little hypocrisy here.


No. It didn't. It disappeared because those families no longer wanted to be on a bus to Williamsburg for the sake of Williamsburg having some ED and diverse kids. And that's when the SB decided it had a "no more island" policy. This policy means that Williamsburg will have essentially no ED kids.


Well, yeah, when a new middle school is going to open closer to their homes, sure. Now they can bring some miniscule "diversity" to Dorothy Hamm MS at the Historical Stratford Site instead of Williamsburg.
Anonymous
Post 12/11/2018 17:03     Subject: Re:Holding APS Leadership, Staff and School Board Accountable for the Boundary Mess
Anonymous wrote:Here's the thing about trying to bully someone into doing what you want. One element of bullying is that the bully has to have some kind of power over the person being bullied, such as physical strength, social influence, etc. SA has no power over NA, so you're not in a position to bully them into anything. If you want their help, you need to try a different tactic because all this one is doing is causing them to roll their eyes and tune you out.


Not sure what tactic you're referring to here. The question was asked what NA could be doing to help. Other commentators aside, that question was answered - without snark, without calling anyone racist, with no bullying. Just what does it take to appease you? Perhaps you should tell us what SA needs to do to garner NA's help, then? Just what answer are you looking for?
Anonymous
Post 12/11/2018 16:40     Subject: Holding APS Leadership, Staff and School Board Accountable for the Boundary Mess
Pps have it right exactly, the Rosslyn island specifically asked to be moved out of Williamsburg because it was inaccessible and meant kids didn’t have access to extracurriculars. It was a pretty bfd for them, and there are still many people who live there that are bitter about it. We shouldn’t perpetuate
Anonymous
Post 12/11/2018 13:33     Subject: Holding APS Leadership, Staff and School Board Accountable for the Boundary Mess
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Contiguity is important, as is making schools be close to people's homes. Look at the Rosslyn island for middle school highschool -- there's a reason it was removed for middle school this past go around. Those kids have a very hard time getting to and from school without school buses. This makes it so they can't do after school activities and parents can't be as engaged in the school. These are not things that as a community we should be ignoring because of a need to establish desirable demographics. There has to be a middle ground.


The Rosslyn island disappeared because of the new middle school and adding some W-L neighborhoods to Yorktown, not because being a few miles from Williamsburg and Yorktown was such a BFD. The need to balance demographics is far more important than your dismissive comments suggest.


DP, but no. The whole purpose of the island originally was to bring more diversity to Yorktown and Williamsburg and balance demographics. On the high school boundaries, the island was very much viewed as a problem for people living there, for whom W-L is significantly closer and more accessible. Families there argued that the longer bus rides required cut into studying, extracurricular and family time for those students, and being sent to a school that's not just further away but also less accessible by mass transit made it harder for parents in the island (who are far more likely to be car-free than elsewhere in NA) to participate in school activities. Because of the number of communities fighting to get into W-L and out of Wakefield and issues with moving western PUs from W-L to Yorktown, the SB dismissed the island and moved a couple of planning units from W-L to Yorktown for the sole purpose of creating technical contiguity so they didn't have deal with the legitimate concerns of that community.

As for the middle school boundaries, the island was zoned to Williamsburg even though it was closer to both Swanson and Jefferson (especially Jefferson, Williamsburg is twice as far away) because again, diversity. When the latest round of middle school boundaries were drawn, the white UMC people around Williamsburg were not the ones arguing to get rid of the island, they were perfectly happy to keep it, it was the lower-income/minority families in the island who wanted a change (because again, long bus rides and logistics). Stratford wasn't the motivation for the change, it was just the opportunity.
Anonymous
Post 12/11/2018 13:20     Subject: Holding APS Leadership, Staff and School Board Accountable for the Boundary Mess
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Contiguity is important, as is making schools be close to people's homes. Look at the Rosslyn island for middle school highschool -- there's a reason it was removed for middle school this past go around. Those kids have a very hard time getting to and from school without school buses. This makes it so they can't do after school activities and parents can't be as engaged in the school. These are not things that as a community we should be ignoring because of a need to establish desirable demographics. There has to be a middle ground.


The Rosslyn island disappeared because of the new middle school and adding some W-L neighborhoods to Yorktown, not because being a few miles from Williamsburg and Yorktown was such a BFD. The need to balance demographics is far more important than your dismissive comments suggest.


I see a little hypocrisy here.


No. It didn't. It disappeared because those families no longer wanted to be on a bus to Williamsburg for the sake of Williamsburg having some ED and diverse kids. And that's when the SB decided it had a "no more island" policy. This policy means that Williamsburg will have essentially no ED kids.
Anonymous
Post 12/11/2018 13:11     Subject: Holding APS Leadership, Staff and School Board Accountable for the Boundary Mess
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Contiguity is important, as is making schools be close to people's homes. Look at the Rosslyn island for middle school highschool -- there's a reason it was removed for middle school this past go around. Those kids have a very hard time getting to and from school without school buses. This makes it so they can't do after school activities and parents can't be as engaged in the school. These are not things that as a community we should be ignoring because of a need to establish desirable demographics. There has to be a middle ground.


The Rosslyn island disappeared because of the new middle school and adding some W-L neighborhoods to Yorktown, not because being a few miles from Williamsburg and Yorktown was such a BFD. The need to balance demographics is far more important than your dismissive comments suggest.


I see a little hypocrisy here.
Anonymous
Post 12/11/2018 13:07     Subject: Holding APS Leadership, Staff and School Board Accountable for the Boundary Mess
Anonymous wrote:Contiguity is important, as is making schools be close to people's homes. Look at the Rosslyn island for middle school highschool -- there's a reason it was removed for middle school this past go around. Those kids have a very hard time getting to and from school without school buses. This makes it so they can't do after school activities and parents can't be as engaged in the school. These are not things that as a community we should be ignoring because of a need to establish desirable demographics. There has to be a middle ground.


The Rosslyn island disappeared because of the new middle school and adding some W-L neighborhoods to Yorktown, not because being a few miles from Williamsburg and Yorktown was such a BFD. The need to balance demographics is far more important than your dismissive comments suggest.
Anonymous
Post 12/11/2018 12:50     Subject: Re:Holding APS Leadership, Staff and School Board Accountable for the Boundary Mess
Here's the thing about trying to bully someone into doing what you want. One element of bullying is that the bully has to have some kind of power over the person being bullied, such as physical strength, social influence, etc. SA has no power over NA, so you're not in a position to bully them into anything. If you want their help, you need to try a different tactic because all this one is doing is causing them to roll their eyes and tune you out.
Anonymous
Post 12/11/2018 12:46     Subject: Holding APS Leadership, Staff and School Board Accountable for the Boundary Mess
Contiguity is important, as is making schools be close to people's homes. Look at the Rosslyn island for middle school highschool -- there's a reason it was removed for middle school this past go around. Those kids have a very hard time getting to and from school without school buses. This makes it so they can't do after school activities and parents can't be as engaged in the school. These are not things that as a community we should be ignoring because of a need to establish desirable demographics. There has to be a middle ground.
Anonymous
Post 12/11/2018 12:35     Subject: Re:Holding APS Leadership, Staff and School Board Accountable for the Boundary Mess
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I just have to say how I love that this post started out about how to hold the Staff and School Board accountable and devolved into a post blaming NA parents for the woes of the SA boundary process. A process NA had zero to do with.

NA bashing is getting so old, and clearly isn't getting SA anywhere.


I wouldn't say NA had NOTHING to do with it. It's the attitudes and perceptions that drove people to NA to avoid the "problem" and thereby exacerbated the situation. And NA pushback against APAH-like projects in THEIR neighborhoods, exacerbating the saturation of low-income housing in SA neighborhoods.


Kind of reaching here but I admire the effort to still blame NA!


OK, then. What has NA done to HELP?


What were we supposed to do?


Don't fight "weird" boundaries.
Don't insist on "contiguity" and no "islands" and "alignment"
Advocate for 30% seat set-asides for ED in all choice programs.
Push the CB and APAH and their colleagues for family unit CAFs north of Ballston, not just senior and studio CAFs.
Hard core push for a lot of multi-family CAFs along Lee Highway.
Strongly support geographical distribution and speak out loudly against more CAFs along Columbia Pike, especially the West End - neighborhoods where the neighborhood school FRL rates are already 50% and above.
Lobby the CB on housing; but acknowledge there are things a school system can do to mitigate impacts of existing housing and support those things regardless of how many buses it requires: Cambridge models for admissions, for example.
Start pushing some candidates from north Arlington who will push these things both on SB and CB.
Stop going along with the SB line that all Arlington schools are great and start insisting that they be EQUALLY great - and that that requires economically diverse student bodies.
Insist that APS and the community provide those wraparound services and programs they have at Carlin Springs to justify segregation at ALL schools so ALL students in need of them can get them easily regardless of where they live.
Stop calling SA parents who do these things racist, NIMBY, or just stupid or for not knowing what they were buying into or naive that they thought they could make a difference.
Stop telling SA parents who do these things to "just move" or "choice out."
Drew will have a lot of empty space next year - get a slew of NA families to transfer their kids into Drew.
STOP the CB from pushing MORE affordable housing in the new "Opportunity Zones" that are probably meant more for economic development; but APAH et al already have their sights on.
STOP the CB from using the Amazon "agreement" to focus all the AH in Crystal City, Pentagon City, "AND COLUMBIA PIKE." Oakridge could sustain more; but FAMILY sized AH (your Arington Mills, Columbia Hills-es, and Gilliam Places) need to go NORTH - perfect opportunity to distribute AH in Arlington and start creating it on Lee Hwy.

And remember, the question was what North Arlington could do/should have done - not what some individuals in north arlington could do. NORTH ARLINGTON needs to be a voice for all these things.


This list sounds like it was written by someone who only started paying attention this fall and is repeating talking points they’ve heard without checking if they were factually accurate or logical.

You couldn't be more wrong. So I won't bother to ask what you allege to be "factually" inaccurate - because you will likely be quite wrong again.


DP. Curious to know what you think was the origin of the whole continuity/island concern.
Anonymous
Post 12/11/2018 12:33     Subject: Re:Holding APS Leadership, Staff and School Board Accountable for the Boundary Mess
Anonymous wrote:
Don't fight "weird" boundaries.
Don't insist on "contiguity" and no "islands" and "alignment"
Advocate for 30% seat set-asides for ED in all choice programs.
Push the CB and APAH and their colleagues for family unit CAFs north of Ballston, not just senior and studio CAFs.
Hard core push for a lot of multi-family CAFs along Lee Highway.
Strongly support geographical distribution and speak out loudly against more CAFs along Columbia Pike, especially the West End - neighborhoods where the neighborhood school FRL rates are already 50% and above.
Lobby the CB on housing; but acknowledge there are things a school system can do to mitigate impacts of existing housing and support those things regardless of how many buses it requires: Cambridge models for admissions, for example.
Start pushing some candidates from north Arlington who will push these things both on SB and CB.
Stop going along with the SB line that all Arlington schools are great and start insisting that they be EQUALLY great - and that that requires economically diverse student bodies.
Insist that APS and the community provide those wraparound services and programs they have at Carlin Springs to justify segregation at ALL schools so ALL students in need of them can get them easily regardless of where they live.
Stop calling SA parents who do these things racist, NIMBY, or just stupid or for not knowing what they were buying into or naive that they thought they could make a difference.
Stop telling SA parents who do these things to "just move" or "choice out."
Drew will have a lot of empty space next year - get a slew of NA families to transfer their kids into Drew.
STOP the CB from pushing MORE affordable housing in the new "Opportunity Zones" that are probably meant more for economic development; but APAH et al already have their sights on.
STOP the CB from using the Amazon "agreement" to focus all the AH in Crystal City, Pentagon City, "AND COLUMBIA PIKE." Oakridge could sustain more; but FAMILY sized AH (your Arington Mills, Columbia Hills-es, and Gilliam Places) need to go NORTH - perfect opportunity to distribute AH in Arlington and start creating it on Lee Hwy.

And remember, the question was what North Arlington could do/should have done - not what some individuals in north arlington could do. NORTH ARLINGTON needs to be a voice for all these things.



I love you.


This may need to be a plural marriage. <3