Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

It's disrespectful to tell people- like you're doing today- that their (clearly) religious holiday is not really a religious holiday, and that holiday's symbols are secular and not important. It shows a basic lack of awareness, and it's rude. You're right that someone making a choice i wouldn't make myself isn't, at its core, disrespectful. But when you denigrate my religion and tell me that my religious holidays aren't religious because you , personally, don't think they should be- that is disrespectful. Again- you have the freedom to believe what you want, and put up a "holiday tree" and burn candles in the image of buddha and wear a dot on your forehead and dance around to Indian music on Diwali all while not caring in the slightest about the meaning of those holidays, symbols, etc. I don't think my opinion is more important than yours at all. But just know that you come across as disrespectful to many people.

No one is saying that. No one is saying the holiday YOU celebrate isn't a religious one in YOUR house.

People are saying that some holidays and their symbols also have non-religious significance to the non-religious, and often (as is the case with the Christmas Tree, Yule Log and others) they have histories that pre-date their religious appropriation. This alone (plus common sense and basic courtesy) should encourage you to turn down the outrage meter.

No one is offended if you view your tree as a religious symbol. Have at it man. But you can't tell anyone else they shouldn't, especially when the history and facts do not support you. Your being offended is entirely your flaw and entirely your problem.

Christmas is a religious holiday no matter which way you spin it. I can't believe anyone would try to claim otherwise. So bizarre.

No one is claiming otherwise. Please read what is posted.

What people are claiming is that they can celebrate the holiday in a non-religious way if they choose (like people celebrate Halloween, which has religious roots) and that religious people should not be offended if non-religious or non-christian people put up a tree, particularly since the roots of those sybols have nothing to do with Christianity whatsoever.

Is that clear enough?

Yep, but your logic is muddy and your “facts” ahistorical.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

It's disrespectful to tell people- like you're doing today- that their (clearly) religious holiday is not really a religious holiday, and that holiday's symbols are secular and not important. It shows a basic lack of awareness, and it's rude. You're right that someone making a choice i wouldn't make myself isn't, at its core, disrespectful. But when you denigrate my religion and tell me that my religious holidays aren't religious because you , personally, don't think they should be- that is disrespectful. Again- you have the freedom to believe what you want, and put up a "holiday tree" and burn candles in the image of buddha and wear a dot on your forehead and dance around to Indian music on Diwali all while not caring in the slightest about the meaning of those holidays, symbols, etc. I don't think my opinion is more important than yours at all. But just know that you come across as disrespectful to many people.

No one is saying that. No one is saying the holiday YOU celebrate isn't a religious one in YOUR house.

People are saying that some holidays and their symbols also have non-religious significance to the non-religious, and often (as is the case with the Christmas Tree, Yule Log and others) they have histories that pre-date their religious appropriation. This alone (plus common sense and basic courtesy) should encourage you to turn down the outrage meter.

No one is offended if you view your tree as a religious symbol. Have at it man. But you can't tell anyone else they shouldn't, especially when the history and facts do not support you. Your being offended is entirely your flaw and entirely your problem.

Christmas is a religious holiday no matter which way you spin it. I can't believe anyone would try to claim otherwise. So bizarre.

No one is claiming otherwise. Please read what is posted.

What people are claiming is that they can celebrate the holiday in a non-religious way if they choose (like people celebrate Halloween, which has religious roots) and that religious people should not be offended if non-religious or non-christian people put up a tree, particularly since the roots of those sybols have nothing to do with Christianity whatsoever.

Is that clear enough?

Anonymous wrote:Can we shift back to the question of how to make your family's celebration of the many Jewish holidays so fun and awesome that you aren't even tempted to decorate a Christmas tree? When I hear that friends' kids are jealous of Xmas stuff, I want to say "that's because you aren't celebrating enough Jewish holidays." Of course if all you do is go to temple for the high holidays and light candles for Hanukkah, you and your kids will think Xmas and seems more fun. but if you really embrace Judaism, I doubt you or your kids will even think twice about Christmas. My kids feel bad for their Christian friends because Jews have so many fun holidays - and their friends just have Christmas.

Totally. My kids felt cheated until we went balls to the wall for Shemini Atzeret and they no longer wanted to take part in all the cool stuff their friends were doing.

Can we shift back to the question of how to make your family's celebration of the many Jewish holidays so fun and awesome that you aren't even tempted to decorate a Christmas tree? When I hear that friends' kids are jealous of Xmas stuff, I want to say "that's because you aren't celebrating enough Jewish holidays." Of course if all you do is go to temple for the high holidays and light candles for Hanukkah, you and your kids will think Xmas and seems more fun. but if you really embrace Judaism, I doubt you or your kids will even think twice about Christmas. My kids feel bad for their Christian friends because Jews have so many fun holidays - and their friends just have Christmas.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

It's disrespectful to tell people- like you're doing today- that their (clearly) religious holiday is not really a religious holiday, and that holiday's symbols are secular and not important. It shows a basic lack of awareness, and it's rude. You're right that someone making a choice i wouldn't make myself isn't, at its core, disrespectful. But when you denigrate my religion and tell me that my religious holidays aren't religious because you , personally, don't think they should be- that is disrespectful. Again- you have the freedom to believe what you want, and put up a "holiday tree" and burn candles in the image of buddha and wear a dot on your forehead and dance around to Indian music on Diwali all while not caring in the slightest about the meaning of those holidays, symbols, etc. I don't think my opinion is more important than yours at all. But just know that you come across as disrespectful to many people.

No one is saying that. No one is saying the holiday YOU celebrate isn't a religious one in YOUR house.

People are saying that some holidays and their symbols also have non-religious significance to the non-religious, and often (as is the case with the Christmas Tree, Yule Log and others) they have histories that pre-date their religious appropriation. This alone (plus common sense and basic courtesy) should encourage you to turn down the outrage meter.

No one is offended if you view your tree as a religious symbol. Have at it man. But you can't tell anyone else they shouldn't, especially when the history and facts do not support you. Your being offended is entirely your flaw and entirely your problem.

Christmas is a religious holiday no matter which way you spin it. I can't believe anyone would try to claim otherwise. So bizarre.

Anonymous wrote:

It's disrespectful to tell people- like you're doing today- that their (clearly) religious holiday is not really a religious holiday, and that holiday's symbols are secular and not important. It shows a basic lack of awareness, and it's rude. You're right that someone making a choice i wouldn't make myself isn't, at its core, disrespectful. But when you denigrate my religion and tell me that my religious holidays aren't religious because you , personally, don't think they should be- that is disrespectful. Again- you have the freedom to believe what you want, and put up a "holiday tree" and burn candles in the image of buddha and wear a dot on your forehead and dance around to Indian music on Diwali all while not caring in the slightest about the meaning of those holidays, symbols, etc. I don't think my opinion is more important than yours at all. But just know that you come across as disrespectful to many people.

No one is saying that. No one is saying the holiday YOU celebrate isn't a religious one in YOUR house.

People are saying that some holidays and their symbols also have non-religious significance to the non-religious, and often (as is the case with the Christmas Tree, Yule Log and others) they have histories that pre-date their religious appropriation. This alone (plus common sense and basic courtesy) should encourage you to turn down the outrage meter.

No one is offended if you view your tree as a religious symbol. Have at it man. But you can't tell anyone else they shouldn't, especially when the history and facts do not support you. Your being offended is entirely your flaw and entirely your problem.

Anonymous wrote:Lol, to the PP complaining about other religions “stealing your Xmas traditions,” we’re “Hindi” (well, probably more atheist than anything), and we put up a tree every year. Sometimes we exchange gifts. So do all my Hindu friends. Suck it. And feel feee to pray for my soul.

Totes, suck it! I guess I can now wear Krishna stickers on the soles of my shoes and a bindi when-evs. Nothing means anything all that matters is my own narcissism!

Hindu married to a Jew. Christmas was always the big holiday in my family, so I always want a tree. In laws have a heard time with it. Mostly they want to call it tacky, but I love it and think it looks beautiful, festive and joyous. I love what the holiday is about. I’m agnostic but respect the story of Jesus Christ and believe it has important lessons for us all. I respect others’ religious traditions, and in this case my family has adopted one as our own.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So you don’t want to be Jewish and you don’t want your children to be Jewish and you give zero effs about what your grandparents or their parents went through for your right to have the choice to eff over thousands of years of tradition because you want to take pictures of your food, practice yoga with goats, cure your own candid bacon, and fancy yourself a millennial BuJu. When your children become born again, remember your zero effs given.

Isn't CHOICE the key? It's like people who celebrate the freedoms that the military has afforded us, yet get pissed when people exercise that freedom in a way don't like.

Having the choice and freedom to do something disrespectful doesn't mean people can't tell you you're being disrespectful. Choices don't come with zero consequences even if you're allowed to make them. I hate lame arguments like that.

Disrespectful? To whom? A long lost relative from the shtetl? It isn't disrespectful just because someone makes a choice you disagree with. It is disrespectful of you to think your views should predominate over other's beliefs.

It's disrespectful to tell people- like you're doing today- that their (clearly) religious holiday is not really a religious holiday, and that holiday's symbols are secular and not important. It shows a basic lack of awareness, and it's rude. You're right that someone making a choice i wouldn't make myself isn't, at its core, disrespectful. But when you denigrate my religion and tell me that my religious holidays aren't religious because you , personally, don't think they should be- that is disrespectful. Again- you have the freedom to believe what you want, and put up a "holiday tree" and burn candles in the image of buddha and wear a dot on your forehead and dance around to Indian music on Diwali all while not caring in the slightest about the meaning of those holidays, symbols, etc. I don't think my opinion is more important than yours at all. But just know that you come across as disrespectful to many people.

Anonymous wrote:When there is a tree lighting ceremony at the synagogue is when it will be okay for me to put up a tree in my house.

Does that also apply to sex in the synagogue?

Anonymous wrote:"Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed." (1 Peter 2:24 KJV).

Remembrance of what Jesus did on the cross which is called a tree.
+ Lights and Ornaments
Representational of the glory, and wonder of what Jesus did on the cross. In the days of old, Christians used candles (unsafe) on the tree, which was a connection also to the Church.
+ A Star
Representing the glory star that was above Jesus Christ at his birth time.

This is not a common belief. I was raised in a fundamentalist evangelical Christian family, attended church every week, and went to Christian school from PreK to graduation. I've never heard of viewing a Christmas tree as the body of Christ, and I was taught some pretty looney things.

-atheist married to a Jew

Anonymous wrote:"Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed." (1 Peter 2:24 KJV).

Remembrance of what Jesus did on the cross which is called a tree.
+ Lights and Ornaments
Representational of the glory, and wonder of what Jesus did on the cross. In the days of old, Christians used candles (unsafe) on the tree, which was a connection also to the Church.
+ A Star
Representing the glory star that was above Jesus Christ at his birth time.

Ha! man, that is a streeeeeeeeeeeettttttttttttcccccchhhhhhhhh.....

I could use that same level logic and claim it for the sofa in your living room. I am offended by your sofa! It is my religious symbol!

Fail.

"Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed." (1 Peter 2:24 KJV).

Remembrance of what Jesus did on the cross which is called a tree.
+ Lights and Ornaments
Representational of the glory, and wonder of what Jesus did on the cross. In the days of old, Christians used candles (unsafe) on the tree, which was a connection also to the Church.
+ A Star
Representing the glory star that was above Jesus Christ at his birth time.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So you don’t want to be Jewish and you don’t want your children to be Jewish and you give zero effs about what your grandparents or their parents went through for your right to have the choice to eff over thousands of years of tradition because you want to take pictures of your food, practice yoga with goats, cure your own candid bacon, and fancy yourself a millennial BuJu. When your children become born again, remember your zero effs given.

Isn't CHOICE the key? It's like people who celebrate the freedoms that the military has afforded us, yet get pissed when people exercise that freedom in a way don't like.

Having the choice and freedom to do something disrespectful doesn't mean people can't tell you you're being disrespectful. Choices don't come with zero consequences even if you're allowed to make them. I hate lame arguments like that.

I'm the atheist who celebrates Christmas and I'm sympathetic to people finding it disrespectful. People have the right to perceive it as such while I still have the right to do it. I'm not against people not liking what I do. That's what freedom is.

a Jew needs a Christmas tree like a fish needs a bicycle.