Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

This is based on the assumption that educational opportunities are a zero-sum game. I.e., if it helps you, it hurts me. It doesn't have to be that way.

Part of the problem is that MCPS has made it a very zero sum game and has a track record of ignoring any need or issue coming from non-poverty areas. MCPS is famous for saying things that it recognizes that it is not serving the high achieving students but it doesn't matter because there are too many low performing students to care about the rest. MCPS looks for short cuts so doing things like placing magnets in bad schools to change the optics of the school performance, dumbing down the curriculum, removing exams, reducing math acceleration, and not allowing PTAs to find aides in schools with high ratios is more about trying to throttle higher achieving students to make up the gap than helping low achieving students perform better. [b]

This is definitely a problem.

+1

Anonymous wrote:

This is based on the assumption that educational opportunities are a zero-sum game. I.e., if it helps you, it hurts me. It doesn't have to be that way.

Part of the problem is that MCPS has made it a very zero sum game and has a track record of ignoring any need or issue coming from non-poverty areas. MCPS is famous for saying things that it recognizes that it is not serving the high achieving students but it doesn't matter because there are too many low performing students to care about the rest. MCPS looks for short cuts so doing things like placing magnets in bad schools to change the optics of the school performance, dumbing down the curriculum, removing exams, reducing math acceleration, and not allowing PTAs to find aides in schools with high ratios is more about trying to throttle higher achieving students to make up the gap than helping low achieving students perform better. [b]

This is definitely a problem.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Public school BUDGETS are most definitely a zero sum game, even after the partial federal FARM and ESOL subsidies.

Educational OPPORTUNITIES are (a) what you make of them, and (b) what you seek out (museums, sports, trips, conversations, books, clubs)

Public schools goal is for students to pass proficiency in reading and math. The rest is gravy. Unf the rest is now increasingly provided by the parents, tutors, camps, other schools.

It seems to be received wisdom on DCUM that most kids in MCPS get most of their education outside of school. Really weird. Plus, if it's true, why does anybody care how "good" the school is? Why not go ahead and send your kid to school in Ganglandia? Why is everybody paying all of this extra money to live in Bethesda or Potomac for the "good" schools?

Less white collar jobs in Ganglandia.

LOL - there are jobs in Potomac?

Where's MoCo's ganglandia? Judging from the crime rates, poverty rates, HS graduation rates, gang activity, and hit & run driver culture it is north of silver spring, Maryland.

Anonymous wrote:

This is based on the assumption that educational opportunities are a zero-sum game. I.e., if it helps you, it hurts me. It doesn't have to be that way.

Part of the problem is that MCPS has made it a very zero sum game and has a track record of ignoring any need or issue coming from non-poverty areas. MCPS is famous for saying things that it recognizes that it is not serving the high achieving students but it doesn't matter because there are too many low performing students to care about the rest. MCPS looks for short cuts so doing things like placing magnets in bad schools to change the optics of the school performance, dumbing down the curriculum, removing exams, reducing math acceleration, and not allowing PTAs to find aides in schools with high ratios is more about trying to throttle higher achieving students to make up the gap than helping low achieving students perform better.

It's tough to put a robotics lab into a school where only 50% of 9th graders are passing federal standards in reading and math.

We know this, because Wheaton is our sister school, so whatever we donate to our HS's fund, 10% of it goes to Wheaton. We've even had theft issues at Wheaton for things the fund and PTAs jointly put in to the HS (i.e. stolen computers).

It's really a sad state of affairs. Academic basics aren't mastered, people whine for state-of-the-art everything, then they steal and physically wreak what is given.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Public school BUDGETS are most definitely a zero sum game, even after the partial federal FARM and ESOL subsidies.

Educational OPPORTUNITIES are (a) what you make of them, and (b) what you seek out (museums, sports, trips, conversations, books, clubs)

Public schools goal is for students to pass proficiency in reading and math. The rest is gravy. Unf the rest is now increasingly provided by the parents, tutors, camps, other schools.

It seems to be received wisdom on DCUM that most kids in MCPS get most of their education outside of school. Really weird. Plus, if it's true, why does anybody care how "good" the school is? Why not go ahead and send your kid to school in Ganglandia? Why is everybody paying all of this extra money to live in Bethesda or Potomac for the "good" schools?

Less white collar jobs in Ganglandia.

LOL - there are jobs in Potomac?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Public school BUDGETS are most definitely a zero sum game, even after the partial federal FARM and ESOL subsidies.

Educational OPPORTUNITIES are (a) what you make of them, and (b) what you seek out (museums, sports, trips, conversations, books, clubs)

Public schools goal is for students to pass proficiency in reading and math. The rest is gravy. Unf the rest is now increasingly provided by the parents, tutors, camps, other schools.

It seems to be received wisdom on DCUM that most kids in MCPS get most of their education outside of school. Really weird. Plus, if it's true, why does anybody care how "good" the school is? Why not go ahead and send your kid to school in Ganglandia? Why is everybody paying all of this extra money to live in Bethesda or Potomac for the "good" schools?

At least Ganglandia gets more county, state and federal funds than the W schools!

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Public school BUDGETS are most definitely a zero sum game, even after the partial federal FARM and ESOL subsidies.

Educational OPPORTUNITIES are (a) what you make of them, and (b) what you seek out (museums, sports, trips, conversations, books, clubs)

Public schools goal is for students to pass proficiency in reading and math. The rest is gravy. Unf the rest is now increasingly provided by the parents, tutors, camps, other schools.

It seems to be received wisdom on DCUM that most kids in MCPS get most of their education outside of school. Really weird. Plus, if it's true, why does anybody care how "good" the school is? Why not go ahead and send your kid to school in Ganglandia? Why is everybody paying all of this extra money to live in Bethesda or Potomac for the "good" schools?

Less white collar jobs in Ganglandia.

Anonymous wrote:

This is based on the assumption that educational opportunities are a zero-sum game. I.e., if it helps you, it hurts me. It doesn't have to be that way.

Part of the problem is that MCPS has made it a very zero sum game and has a track record of ignoring any need or issue coming from non-poverty areas. MCPS is famous for saying things that it recognizes that it is not serving the high achieving students but it doesn't matter because there are too many low performing students to care about the rest. MCPS looks for short cuts so doing things like placing magnets in bad schools to change the optics of the school performance, dumbing down the curriculum, removing exams, reducing math acceleration, and not allowing PTAs to find aides in schools with high ratios is more about trying to throttle higher achieving students to make up the gap than helping low achieving students perform better.

I think this is overstating the intent, or equating it with results (I think it more as benign neglect), but I don't think that the effect is overstated. This is a huge school system with large segments of the student body that have significant academic and other challenges. Much, much more so than 20 years ago. It takes a lot of resources and focus to address those issues, and they need to be addressed. But it then does seem that the good/strong schools in the system (outside the magnet programs) serve areas with motivated parents and students who maximize the resources devoted to these schools. Which unfortunately is a vicious cycle, because if they seem to be doing fine, no need for a lot of additional resources. But if you believe that the system is barely treading water for your kid at a good school, you have every reason to be suspicious of further change in the name of "closing the achievement gap."

This is based on the assumption that educational opportunities are a zero-sum game. I.e., if it helps you, it hurts me. It doesn't have to be that way.

Part of the problem is that MCPS has made it a very zero sum game and has a track record of ignoring any need or issue coming from non-poverty areas. MCPS is famous for saying things that it recognizes that it is not serving the high achieving students but it doesn't matter because there are too many low performing students to care about the rest. MCPS looks for short cuts so doing things like placing magnets in bad schools to change the optics of the school performance, dumbing down the curriculum, removing exams, reducing math acceleration, and not allowing PTAs to find aides in schools with high ratios is more about trying to throttle higher achieving students to make up the gap than helping low achieving students perform better.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The conflict I see is that although I believe many in the county agree with the proposition that the school system should attempt to afford all access to a high quality education, not as many would be willing to have their children be part of an experiment where there is a high likelihood of negative disruption to their own children's education. The societal and economic issues that the school system would need to overcome are profound and not susceptible to easy solutions - otherwise, they (hopefully) would have been solved long ago. It would take a massive effort and a huge commitment of resources, not just busing. I think an effective solution is also well beyond this system's administration's ability to execute. Parents who have worked hard to get their children into a good district/cluster aren't going to sit around and watch that be undone without responding.

Agree. Then they will pour extra money and time into their private academic hours after school. Who is going to lose?

This is based on the assumption that educational opportunities are a zero-sum game. I.e., if it helps you, it hurts me. It doesn't have to be that way.

I'm the poster of the first message. I agree - it doesn't have to be that way. But if you are betting that the current school administration, with reasonably available resources (and we already spend around $15.5-16K/student based on the operating budget numbers on the MoCo school system website) can achieve something significantly different from a non-zero-sum outcome, then I am betting the other way.

Correction: "significantly different from a zero-sum outcome..."

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The conflict I see is that although I believe many in the county agree with the proposition that the school system should attempt to afford all access to a high quality education, not as many would be willing to have their children be part of an experiment where there is a high likelihood of negative disruption to their own children's education. The societal and economic issues that the school system would need to overcome are profound and not susceptible to easy solutions - otherwise, they (hopefully) would have been solved long ago. It would take a massive effort and a huge commitment of resources, not just busing. I think an effective solution is also well beyond this system's administration's ability to execute. Parents who have worked hard to get their children into a good district/cluster aren't going to sit around and watch that be undone without responding.

Agree. Then they will pour extra money and time into their private academic hours after school. Who is going to lose?

This is based on the assumption that educational opportunities are a zero-sum game. I.e., if it helps you, it hurts me. It doesn't have to be that way.

I'm the poster of the first message. I agree - it doesn't have to be that way. But if you are betting that the current school administration, with reasonably available resources (and we already spend around $15.5-16K/student based on the operating budget numbers on the MoCo school system website) can achieve something significantly different from a non-zero-sum outcome, then I am betting the other way.

This has been attempted many times in the past in different areas of the country. And it did not help. Not sure what were the lessons learned, but I guess that parental involvement is hard to overcome.

Anonymous wrote:It must be so exhausting to live this way. We live in an area that is fine but not academically amazing. Our kids are happy and thriving and learning. No, not every parent wants “only the best” for their kids. Some parents have perspective and have managed to tamp down their status anxiety. Everybody here saying that it’s either “the best” or poverty/crime/disaster/panic are putting a terrible weight on their children’s shoulders. No wonder they grow up thinking their choices are basically Ivy League or the gutter.

More like different parents have different definitions of "what is best".

IMO, "best" is not necessarily highest test scores and too much pressure is not "what is best" for the kids. I'm Asian American fwiw.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Public school BUDGETS are most definitely a zero sum game, even after the partial federal FARM and ESOL subsidies.

Educational OPPORTUNITIES are (a) what you make of them, and (b) what you seek out (museums, sports, trips, conversations, books, clubs)

Public schools goal is for students to pass proficiency in reading and math. The rest is gravy. Unf the rest is now increasingly provided by the parents, tutors, camps, other schools.

It seems to be received wisdom on DCUM that most kids in MCPS get most of their education outside of school. Really weird. Plus, if it's true, why does anybody care how "good" the school is? Why not go ahead and send your kid to school in Ganglandia? Why is everybody paying all of this extra money to live in Bethesda or Potomac for the "good" schools?

I'm a poster who feels that parents have to teach a lot at home. While we don't live in Bethesda or Potomac, we did pick a home in the Richard Montgomery cluster in large patt because as new residents to the county buying a home before we had kids, we were told that was an area with good schools.

As soon as my kids were old enough, they entered the magnet program, which finally offered them strong academics. While I always felt the schools were safe (wouldn't have sent them otherwise), I think some DCUM posters have described Blair on other threads as a type of "Ganglandia".

It must be so exhausting to live this way. We live in an area that is fine but not academically amazing. Our kids are happy and thriving and learning. No, not every parent wants “only the best” for their kids. Some parents have perspective and have managed to tamp down their status anxiety. Everybody here saying that it’s either “the best” or poverty/crime/disaster/panic are putting a terrible weight on their children’s shoulders. No wonder they grow up thinking their choices are basically Ivy League or the gutter.