Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I've lost track of how this discussion relates to WJ and Woodward.

Some affluent DCUM people are worried that their property values may go down and their children may have to go to high school with children who are poor. That's how.

Anonymous wrote:I've lost track of how this discussion relates to WJ and Woodward.

Anonymous wrote:

OK, but we don't have that here. Our housing choices are the product of government policy.

DP: exactly, and years of that policy, and also things like family wealth, etc. To claim that everyone has the same choices in housing options is laughable.

First your housing choices are a product of the market not the government. The government is not telling you where you can or can not live. Its a capitalist system. Ironically, a socialist system would be the one where government policy assigns you to live in certain areas.

Second - you can certainly argue that family wealth is an unfair advantage to many people. However, this is not the role or responsibility of the school system to correct upon entry. The equalizing role that the school system can contribute is by providing a good education to anyone who walks in the door so that they can begin to earn their own wealth after graduation.

If you want to get rid of family wealth because you think it creates an unfair socioeconomic balance then by all means advocate for a county tax that strips any new resident of any family wealth upon the first year residing in the county. You could also garnish forward wages for anyone reporting that their family assisted in paying for their college education.The county could them redistribute this money to the poor hispanic community. I doubt this would be very popular but the place to advocate for this is within the county council not the school system. Good luck, logic can be your friend if you use it.

Anonymous wrote:

It is also not the school system’s job to keep boundaries static for the sale of property values.

I'd agree but then you can't turn around and try to bus higher performing kids from high value places into a low value/low performing school to bolster the rankings, increase property values and raise the SES of the original low in boundary areas. This is only displacing poor people and giving a quick win to MC/UMC whites who bought less expensive property. You also can't advocate to bus poor kids out of your cluster to bolster your own own property values. Your self interest is in raising your raising your property value at the expense of another area. Considering that the residents of the other area already paid the value for their property while you got a discount, you are basically hoping for a windfall at someone else's expense. This is human nature so don't feel bad but it has zero to do with educating anyone.

Regardless it IS NOT the school system's job to manipulate who lives where or play into your real estate dreams, it is the school system's job to educate anyone who walks in the door. If MCPS would start focusing on teaching rather than game playing, it wouldn't get embroiled in the real estate nonsense.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

First you explain why segregated schools are a good thing.

I'm not the PP you are questioning but I'll respond. Schools that are segregated by SES or race due to where people freely choose to live are neither good not bad. They simply exist. It is not the school system's job to actively promote or discourage where anyone chooses to live. The sole job of the school system is to provide a good education to any and all students that walk in the door. Their resources to do this include the quality of the teachers, administrators, curriculum, and programs to meet the variety needs that students will present. MCPS does have many of these programs but always falls flat in executing their ideas and programs. There is far too much waste and incompetence being hidden behind the "impossible to solve achievement gap".

It appears that MCPS only defines diversity as low performing AA and Hispanic students. It ignores asian students and the many diverse ethnic groups that perform perfectly well and spends way too much time looking at white kids as some type of resource rather than students. A school system should not be concerned with white flight or finding ways to draw white people into an area. The students ARE NOT the systems' little pawns to be used as a hopeful quick fix to avoid the hard work of actually educating all the students.

The research studies that show low SES students improve when placed in high performing schools also are VERY clear that there is a tipping point. This only works when the number of low performing kids joining the school is low. Once the ratio increases, any gains are lost and the studies show that average to above average students decline. Some of the studies have also been done across school boundaries where a school with a high poverty rate has low resources. This is far from the case in MCPS as the schools with high poverty receive substantially more resources.

If you look at MCPS own long range planning forecast and the FARMS/race distribution across the county, it quickly becomes clear that trying to sprinkle white kids around the county to solve the achievement problems isn't going to work for anyone. By 2025, MCPS is projecting to be only 28% white following year after year decline. The asian and AA population is relatively steady and the hispanic population is growing fastest. The FARMS rate (inclusive of kids who have been on FARMS) hovers around 40%. The poverty level is higher as some transient families or very poor families not wishing to seek FARMs assistance don't submit the forms. Its no longer 1990 and MCPS is no longer a school system with a wealthy, highly educated parent population. Its gone and not coming back.

So rather than waste money and focus on bussing kids around or "eyeing" high performing elementary schools to bus the kids far from home why not hire some people that know how to run a school system and address the needs of the growing hispanic community? I have heard that Texas has had some good success with full Spanish immersion schools. Many CA schools use technology more effectively to assist students, track progress and intervene when needed. Cristo Rey has phenomenal success with at risk teens. Why not really focus on making a predominantly poor and low performing school steadily improve on its own achievement? Imagine if you had a school system that didn't think educating poor AA and hispanic students was so futile that the only option was to hide them behind white kids? Imagine if you had a school system that enabled the low performing schools to turn it around and climb up the ranks without bussing in white kids. Wouldn't that be amazing? Its entirely possible but it requires hard work, creative thinking and dedication -things that are sorely missing from the MCPS central office.

Well said!
I wish I could pin this post to the top of the dcum md schools forum

Anonymous wrote:

It is also not the school system’s job to keep boundaries static for the sale of property values.

I'd agree but then you can't turn around and try to bus higher performing kids from high value places into a low value/low performing school to bolster the rankings, increase property values and raise the SES of the original low in boundary areas. This is only displacing poor people and giving a quick win to MC/UMC whites who bought less expensive property. You also can't advocate to bus poor kids out of your cluster to bolster your own own property values. Your self interest is in raising your raising your property value at the expense of another area. Considering that the residents of the other area already paid the value for their property while you got a discount, you are basically hoping for a windfall at someone else's expense. This is human nature so don't feel bad but it has zero to do with educating anyone.

Regardless it IS NOT the school system's job to manipulate who lives where or play into your real estate dreams, it is the school system's job to educate anyone who walks in the door. If MCPS would start focusing on teaching rather than game playing, it wouldn't get embroiled in the real estate nonsense.

It is also not the school system’s job to keep boundaries static for the sale of property values.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

First you explain why segregated schools are a good thing.

I'm not the PP you are questioning but I'll respond. Schools that are segregated by SES or race due to where people freely choose to live are neither good not bad. They simply exist. It is not the school system's job to actively promote or discourage where anyone chooses to live. The sole job of the school system is to provide a good education to any and all students that walk in the door. Their resources to do this include the quality of the teachers, administrators, curriculum, and programs to meet the variety needs that students will present. MCPS does have many of these programs but always falls flat in executing their ideas and programs. There is far too much waste and incompetence being hidden behind the "impossible to solve achievement gap".

It appears that MCPS only defines diversity as low performing AA and Hispanic students. It ignores asian students and the many diverse ethnic groups that perform perfectly well and spends way too much time looking at white kids as some type of resource rather than students. A school system should not be concerned with white flight or finding ways to draw white people into an area. The students ARE NOT the systems' little pawns to be used as a hopeful quick fix to avoid the hard work of actually educating all the students.

The research studies that show low SES students improve when placed in high performing schools also are VERY clear that there is a tipping point. This only works when the number of low performing kids joining the school is low. Once the ratio increases, any gains are lost and the studies show that average to above average students decline. Some of the studies have also been done across school boundaries where a school with a high poverty rate has low resources. This is far from the case in MCPS as the schools with high poverty receive substantially more resources.

If you look at MCPS own long range planning forecast and the FARMS/race distribution across the county, it quickly becomes clear that trying to sprinkle white kids around the county to solve the achievement problems isn't going to work for anyone. By 2025, MCPS is projecting to be only 28% white following year after year decline. The asian and AA population is relatively steady and the hispanic population is growing fastest. The FARMS rate (inclusive of kids who have been on FARMS) hovers around 40%. The poverty level is higher as some transient families or very poor families not wishing to seek FARMs assistance don't submit the forms. Its no longer 1990 and MCPS is no longer a school system with a wealthy, highly educated parent population. Its gone and not coming back.

So rather than waste money and focus on bussing kids around or "eyeing" high performing elementary schools to bus the kids far from home why not hire some people that know how to run a school system and address the needs of the growing hispanic community? I have heard that Texas has had some good success with full Spanish immersion schools. Many CA schools use technology more effectively to assist students, track progress and intervene when needed. Cristo Rey has phenomenal success with at risk teens. Why not really focus on making a predominantly poor and low performing school steadily improve on its own achievement? Imagine if you had a school system that didn't think educating poor AA and hispanic students was so futile that the only option was to hide them behind white kids? Imagine if you had a school system that enabled the low performing schools to turn it around and climb up the ranks without bussing in white kids. Wouldn't that be amazing? Its entirely possible but it requires hard work, creative thinking and dedication -things that are sorely missing from the MCPS central office.

Well said!
I wish I could pin this post to the top of the dcum md schools forum

Anonymous wrote:

First your housing choices are a product of the market not the government. The government is not telling you where you can or can not live. Its a capitalist system. Ironically, a socialist system would be the one where government policy assigns you to live in certain areas.

OK, but we don't have that here. Our housing choices are the product of government policy.

DP: exactly, and years of that policy, and also things like family wealth, etc. To claim that everyone has the same choices in housing options is laughable.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

First you explain why segregated schools are a good thing.

Schools that are segregated by SES or race due to where people freely choose to live are neither good not bad.

OK, but we don't have that here. Our housing choices are the product of government policy.

Anonymous wrote:

First you explain why segregated schools are a good thing.

Schools that are segregated by SES or race due to where people freely choose to live are neither good not bad.

Anonymous wrote:

First you explain why segregated schools are a good thing.

I'm not the PP you are questioning but I'll respond. Schools that are segregated by SES or race due to where people freely choose to live are neither good not bad. They simply exist. It is not the school system's job to actively promote or discourage where anyone chooses to live. The sole job of the school system is to provide a good education to any and all students that walk in the door. Their resources to do this include the quality of the teachers, administrators, curriculum, and programs to meet the variety needs that students will present. MCPS does have many of these programs but always falls flat in executing their ideas and programs. There is far too much waste and incompetence being hidden behind the "impossible to solve achievement gap".

It appears that MCPS only defines diversity as low performing AA and Hispanic students. It ignores asian students and the many diverse ethnic groups that perform perfectly well and spends way too much time looking at white kids as some type of resource rather than students. A school system should not be concerned with white flight or finding ways to draw white people into an area. The students ARE NOT the systems' little pawns to be used as a hopeful quick fix to avoid the hard work of actually educating all the students.

The research studies that show low SES students improve when placed in high performing schools also are VERY clear that there is a tipping point. This only works when the number of low performing kids joining the school is low. Once the ratio increases, any gains are lost and the studies show that average to above average students decline. Some of the studies have also been done across school boundaries where a school with a high poverty rate has low resources. This is far from the case in MCPS as the schools with high poverty receive substantially more resources.

If you look at MCPS own long range planning forecast and the FARMS/race distribution across the county, it quickly becomes clear that trying to sprinkle white kids around the county to solve the achievement problems isn't going to work for anyone. By 2025, MCPS is projecting to be only 28% white following year after year decline. The asian and AA population is relatively steady and the hispanic population is growing fastest. The FARMS rate (inclusive of kids who have been on FARMS) hovers around 40%. The poverty level is higher as some transient families or very poor families not wishing to seek FARMs assistance don't submit the forms. Its no longer 1990 and MCPS is no longer a school system with a wealthy, highly educated parent population. Its gone and not coming back.

So rather than waste money and focus on bussing kids around or "eyeing" high performing elementary schools to bus the kids far from home why not hire some people that know how to run a school system and address the needs of the growing hispanic community? I have heard that Texas has had some good success with full Spanish immersion schools. Many CA schools use technology more effectively to assist students, track progress and intervene when needed. Cristo Rey has phenomenal success with at risk teens. Why not really focus on making a predominantly poor and low performing school steadily improve on its own achievement? Imagine if you had a school system that didn't think educating poor AA and hispanic students was so futile that the only option was to hide them behind white kids? Imagine if you had a school system that enabled the low performing schools to turn it around and climb up the ranks without bussing in white kids. Wouldn't that be amazing? Its entirely possible but it requires hard work, creative thinking and dedication -things that are sorely missing from the MCPS central office.