Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here and yes, I posted because I was genuinely shocked. I didn’t think all toddlers used tablets, let alone at a kid centered breakfast.

NP here. The short answer is that people don't want to have to watch/deal with their kids so a screen is the easier way to deal with them. There's a serious lack of discipline in young children these days, so the easy way is stick a screen in front of them so they "behave."

I know several other couples that literally never let their child cry/whine for more than a few seconds (they also cosleep no surprise). I think this has to do with people having fewer children and later and thus they're more of a "rare commodity" so they tend to get spoiled. They think appeasing them is one way to make them "happy." There are other issues at play as well like adults tend to work more hours these days and want to be able to relax when not at work. The bottom line is that yes we all know the parents who stick an ipad in front of their kids during entire meals and the poor kid just stares like a zombie. There aren't long term studies to show it yet but I think undoubtedly these kids will have "impaired" social skills later in life.

Forget social skills, there are plenty of long term (define it?) studies showing development issues (mental/psychological) with screen time at a young age. That has pretty much become irrefutable.

Anonymous wrote:OP here and yes, I posted because I was genuinely shocked. I didn’t think all toddlers used tablets, let alone at a kid centered breakfast.

NP here. The short answer is that people don't want to have to watch/deal with their kids so a screen is the easier way to deal with them. There's a serious lack of discipline in young children these days, so the easy way is stick a screen in front of them so they "behave."

I know several other couples that literally never let their child cry/whine for more than a few seconds (they also cosleep no surprise). I think this has to do with people having fewer children and later and thus they're more of a "rare commodity" so they tend to get spoiled. They think appeasing them is one way to make them "happy." There are other issues at play as well like adults tend to work more hours these days and want to be able to relax when not at work. The bottom line is that yes we all know the parents who stick an ipad in front of their kids during entire meals and the poor kid just stares like a zombie. There aren't long term studies to show it yet but I think undoubtedly these kids will have "impaired" social skills later in life.

Anonymous wrote:I don't think OP was trying to be sanctimonious. I think she was genuinely intrigued by this phenomenon! As am I - isn't it a bit odd that we all go out to eat and bring our kids and then give them all devices? I'm not saying people should or shouldn't do it and I'm not commenting about whether I do. I'm more just saying, we can have a conversation about this without some people seeming judgy and others getting defensive.

OP here and yes, I posted because I was genuinely shocked. I didn’t think all toddlers used tablets, let alone at a kid centered breakfast.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Our neighbor is 6 and the parents have a hard time getting him away from TV, iPhone, and video games -- he gets extremely upset when these are taken away. A few years of them needing more attention now is worth it to me because I don't want to deal with endless battles about screentime later on and with all the issues that can bring.

That's not a screen or device problem, it's a discipline problem. My 8 year old doesn't like TV much, but he does love minecraft. He can't play during the week, but we are pretty generous with minecraft on weekends - he can play an hour each day, and an hour and a half if he reads for more than an hour in the day. We measure his time fairly, but when it is up it is up and that's that. There's no point in him getting upset, because all that causes is the loss of time on a subsequent day. It's not a battle or an issue and never has been.

It's part both. The added screen time becomes addictive. I recommend reading on the science of addiction and video games/screen time. The neural receptors that are affected by drugs, etc. are the same ones that are affected by too much screen time. It starts off as a discipline problem and ends up an addiction/screen problem.

PP here. Yup, exactly this. It gets even harder when you add a social networking component in (many games for older kids have this). They are living in an another world. You have some control at 8, will you at 12? At 17? When your kid goes to college, and doesn't attend class because they're playing games all day? These games and social media platforms are designed using proven psychological techniques to be maximally addictive. It is a real problem to give them to children whose brains aren't quite developed yet. My personal feeling is that we need to give kids a chance to deal with themselves, other people, and the real world -- we need to give them the freedom and autonomy to explore reality without the added burden of addictions this young. The only people it really benefits to give kids access to these things are adults. This is NOT for the benefit of the kid, no matter how you spin it.

Anonymous wrote:I don't think OP was trying to be sanctimonious. I think she was genuinely intrigued by this phenomenon! As am I - isn't it a bit odd that we all go out to eat and bring our kids and then give them all devices? I'm not saying people should or shouldn't do it and I'm not commenting about whether I do. I'm more just saying, we can have a conversation about this without some people seeming judgy and others getting defensive.

You're right, but sadly, that stuff is rampant on this forum

I don't think OP was trying to be sanctimonious. I think she was genuinely intrigued by this phenomenon! As am I - isn't it a bit odd that we all go out to eat and bring our kids and then give them all devices? I'm not saying people should or shouldn't do it and I'm not commenting about whether I do. I'm more just saying, we can have a conversation about this without some people seeming judgy and others getting defensive.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

It was a MOMS CLUB breakfast. I mean, moms and toddlers are the name of the game here.

The device thing has got to go!

It sounds like this club is not for you, which is totally fine. Don't go again. The other members have the right to do what they want in terms of letting their own kids use tablets.

Why would a MOMS CLUB breakfast with toddlers be planned in a restaurant instead of a potluck or similar situation at a park?

I’ll be honest, I was so happy when we were in Germany and many of the restaurants/biergartens were outfitted with small playgrounds and play areas. It was awesome to be able to go, have a great dinner, a glass of wine, and DD could just play her heart out. The places were always filled with kids and it was amazing to me to see that the whole point of going out was that FAMILIES could attend and enjoy their time. I really can’t figure out why it doesn’t catch on like that in North America, other than we tend to like to separate adult time and family time, but I wonder how much of that is chicken and egg. It was so much nicer to head out as a family when I could let DD go up and down the slide a thousand times vs. Wrangling her from under a table, snatching the pile of menus she grabbed from her, and making her sit still for hours.

Yes! I was in Spain a few years back and in several of the airports we went to (including MAD), there were several mini playgrounds where the kids would just hang around and play at. Brilliant idea!

Here’s an example, PP, from one place we went to:

https://www.tripadvisor.ca/Restaurant_Review-g187300-d1037824-Reviews-Gasthof_Stern-Mittenwald_Upper_Bavaria_Bavaria.html

(You may need to scrolll through the pics to see the playground. It was to one site of the outdoor patio)

The thing is, it’s not unusual at all, so you’re not going to see it on every website as a “feature”.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

It was a MOMS CLUB breakfast. I mean, moms and toddlers are the name of the game here.

The device thing has got to go!

It sounds like this club is not for you, which is totally fine. Don't go again. The other members have the right to do what they want in terms of letting their own kids use tablets.

Why would a MOMS CLUB breakfast with toddlers be planned in a restaurant instead of a potluck or similar situation at a park?

I’ll be honest, I was so happy when we were in Germany and many of the restaurants/biergartens were outfitted with small playgrounds and play areas. It was awesome to be able to go, have a great dinner, a glass of wine, and DD could just play her heart out. The places were always filled with kids and it was amazing to me to see that the whole point of going out was that FAMILIES could attend and enjoy their time. I really can’t figure out why it doesn’t catch on like that in North America, other than we tend to like to separate adult time and family time, but I wonder how much of that is chicken and egg. It was so much nicer to head out as a family when I could let DD go up and down the slide a thousand times vs. Wrangling her from under a table, snatching the pile of menus she grabbed from her, and making her sit still for hours.

I’ve googled, but didn’t find any images I was sure matched with your description. Could you link a picture, or explain in more detail? I’m trying to imagine a way this could work in the US with regulations around supervision.

At LEGOLAND in California it was like this. Huge pit of legos plus other areas for kids to play in while we had dinner. It was awesome! My LO played until the food arrived, ate quickly, then played some more while we ate slower and had drinks... loved it. I wish this was more common too. Chick-fil-a and fast food places are kinda like this idea... also airports usually have a play area.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

It was a MOMS CLUB breakfast. I mean, moms and toddlers are the name of the game here.

The device thing has got to go!

It sounds like this club is not for you, which is totally fine. Don't go again. The other members have the right to do what they want in terms of letting their own kids use tablets.

Why would a MOMS CLUB breakfast with toddlers be planned in a restaurant instead of a potluck or similar situation at a park?

I’ll be honest, I was so happy when we were in Germany and many of the restaurants/biergartens were outfitted with small playgrounds and play areas. It was awesome to be able to go, have a great dinner, a glass of wine, and DD could just play her heart out. The places were always filled with kids and it was amazing to me to see that the whole point of going out was that FAMILIES could attend and enjoy their time. I really can’t figure out why it doesn’t catch on like that in North America, other than we tend to like to separate adult time and family time, but I wonder how much of that is chicken and egg. It was so much nicer to head out as a family when I could let DD go up and down the slide a thousand times vs. Wrangling her from under a table, snatching the pile of menus she grabbed from her, and making her sit still for hours.

I’ve googled, but didn’t find any images I was sure matched with your description. Could you link a picture, or explain in more detail? I’m trying to imagine a way this could work in the US with regulations around supervision.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

It was a MOMS CLUB breakfast. I mean, moms and toddlers are the name of the game here.

The device thing has got to go!

It sounds like this club is not for you, which is totally fine. Don't go again. The other members have the right to do what they want in terms of letting their own kids use tablets.

Why would a MOMS CLUB breakfast with toddlers be planned in a restaurant instead of a potluck or similar situation at a park?

I’ll be honest, I was so happy when we were in Germany and many of the restaurants/biergartens were outfitted with small playgrounds and play areas. It was awesome to be able to go, have a great dinner, a glass of wine, and DD could just play her heart out. The places were always filled with kids and it was amazing to me to see that the whole point of going out was that FAMILIES could attend and enjoy their time. I really can’t figure out why it doesn’t catch on like that in North America, other than we tend to like to separate adult time and family time, but I wonder how much of that is chicken and egg. It was so much nicer to head out as a family when I could let DD go up and down the slide a thousand times vs. Wrangling her from under a table, snatching the pile of menus she grabbed from her, and making her sit still for hours.

That is awesome! Definitely wish there were places like that here.

I get it OP. It’s not like we haven’t introduced screens at all but try to limit it. Our 2.5 yo gets so zombie like in front of them. Finding Nemo and Dory are his favorite movies so we’ll turn those on on weekend mornings if he asks. And I let him watch a 10-15 min video while I’m packing our stuff up on weekday mornings. Some days he’ll give it back when I ask, other days it’s a wrestling match. I really don’t want to deal with devices on a more frequent basis yet.

Maybe next time invite the moms group over to your house for a potluck instead? That’s what our group usually does. Lots of toys available and the kids just play.

Anonymous wrote:

It was a MOMS CLUB breakfast. I mean, moms and toddlers are the name of the game here.

The device thing has got to go!

It sounds like this club is not for you, which is totally fine. Don't go again. The other members have the right to do what they want in terms of letting their own kids use tablets.

Why would a MOMS CLUB breakfast with toddlers be planned in a restaurant instead of a potluck or similar situation at a park?

I’ll be honest, I was so happy when we were in Germany and many of the restaurants/biergartens were outfitted with small playgrounds and play areas. It was awesome to be able to go, have a great dinner, a glass of wine, and DD could just play her heart out. The places were always filled with kids and it was amazing to me to see that the whole point of going out was that FAMILIES could attend and enjoy their time. I really can’t figure out why it doesn’t catch on like that in North America, other than we tend to like to separate adult time and family time, but I wonder how much of that is chicken and egg. It was so much nicer to head out as a family when I could let DD go up and down the slide a thousand times vs. Wrangling her from under a table, snatching the pile of menus she grabbed from her, and making her sit still for hours.

Children are socially awkward now because they depend wayyyyt to much on tbose screens instead of human interaction.

Just like adults glued to our phones.

I’m all for technology but not at the benefit of losing our human like traits

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:God, who wants to go to a lunch where you have to engage with and read to other people's toddlers? What is the point? How is that enjoyable?

OP again. I've said this over and over again: it was not a breakfast for moms. It was a breakfast with our toddlers while our older children were at camp. I didn't expect quiet or even conversation that required full attention.

It was a MOMS CLUB breakfast. I mean, moms and toddlers are the name of the game here.

The device thing has got to go!

OP, in case it hasn't sunk in yet - YOU are the one who needs to go. These other moms made clear to you that they will bring devices for their kids. So if you don't like that, then find another friend group. But stop bitching about this one.

I personally wouldn't want to be with a group who used devices for their kids because I wouldn't do so, but I certainly would have just made a note to not go again and would have never posted about it here.

Meh, most things posted here shouldn't be posted but whatever. If you can't vent on an anonymous forum, where CAN you vent?!

This wasn't in DC so I'm not worried about people identifying me.

OP, if this post was from you then you're as dense as you seem. The point is that normal people would not have bothered to write such a sanctimonious post about this issue in the first place because they wouldn't have needed to vent about this.

Anonymous wrote:

Our neighbor is 6 and the parents have a hard time getting him away from TV, iPhone, and video games -- he gets extremely upset when these are taken away. A few years of them needing more attention now is worth it to me because I don't want to deal with endless battles about screentime later on and with all the issues that can bring.

That's not a screen or device problem, it's a discipline problem. My 8 year old doesn't like TV much, but he does love minecraft. He can't play during the week, but we are pretty generous with minecraft on weekends - he can play an hour each day, and an hour and a half if he reads for more than an hour in the day. We measure his time fairly, but when it is up it is up and that's that. There's no point in him getting upset, because all that causes is the loss of time on a subsequent day. It's not a battle or an issue and never has been.

It's part both. The added screen time becomes addictive. I recommend reading on the science of addiction and video games/screen time. The neural receptors that are affected by drugs, etc. are the same ones that are affected by too much screen time. It starts off as a discipline problem and ends up an addiction/screen problem.