Without reading 11 pages of comments, I will share that I am often frustrated that my husband comes home after dinner most nights and that I wish I could talk to him more, but so am exhausted after wrangling our kids by myself from two pick ups, soccer, dinner, bath, and starting bedtime. I make 2x what he does and my career is suffering to some extent because I have to leave at 5pm sharp every day to pick up kids.

He does need to make some changes in how he spends his time, but I also remind myself that he is in a different part of his career than I am. He was in grad school, post-docs and fellowships for a long time. Now he is a few years into a GS12 job. I have been a senior manager at an IT contractor as long as we have been married. I forget sometimes that he can’t just say “my kid has a class party, I’ll need to move the meeting” the way I can. I have enough seniority to dictate my schedule to some extent and to delegate work. He does not have as much flexibility and so I try to respect that while also coaching him to stick up for himself. If we didn’t have kids he’d work until 10pm most nights. That’s just who he is.

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Anonymous wrote:Comparing his first 7 years to her last 3 years isn't apples to oranges. He had the entire financial burden of the family to carry. That's not to blame her -- she was doing her part by maintaining the home front. But the fact is that she's not confronting a similar financial situation when making decisions about how to balance work and family.

OP isn’t worried about the financial burden, apparently. He just cannot handle the burden of deciding if it’s spaghetti or filet for dinner every night, and thinks this should be up to his wife. Well, that and the whole she should be available for sex thing.


OP had his wife’s support for YEARS, in a much more difficult transaction (being SAH). She supported his needs and wants for years. He wouldn’t likely be in the position he is now without her. Her income after many years out of the workforce is nothing to sneeze at, plus it sounds she feels work is part of her identity. It’s her turn. What he is being asked to do is no more than a lot of women are this board are tasked with.

I just think OP likes to feel like “the man” and has certain gender role sterotypes in his mind, whether he sees it or not.

You are so absorbed in your political rhetoric that you've lost sight of the fact that this woman is spending almost zero time with her children. That is not the norm for working moms.

You made that up. She's home for dinner at least 4 nights a week and spends all weekend with them. More time than he spent with them when she was a SAHM.

People on this board are such zealots that they can't even argue from a position of good faith.

Actually op never said one way or other what occurs on weekends, but that his wife is not home for 90 percent of weeknight dinners. You actually are the one making assumptions that aren't based on what has been posted.

He said point blank that she's home Friday, Saturday, and Sunday. He also said she dedicates all her energy to the kids and he's left with "scraps." I get that you think you're really sticking it to feminists or whatever, but you're misrepresenting the thread.

This is taken verbatim from op's first post post:

know she is trying to make up for "lost" time and I don't mind that she works but getting home at 8pm or later everyday does not a happy home make.That said, she really loves what she does and it shows. She pours her heart and soul into her work and that leaves very little for us at home. What is leftover goes to the kids.

I guess the way we comprehend that -- "whatever is leftover" sounds like a lot less to me than you. I've always made six figures as a working mom, and I can count on one hand the number of times I've missed dinner with my kids. Arguing that this woman's home life is just like any other working woman is a farce.

Yes, that was the first post. And this is from his response later: OP here.

I can see both perspectives on the above and based on one of the PP's advice of talking about expectations, I think DW and I need to develop our own set of expectations for each other. I do think it's reasonable for her to be home at least twice a week for dinner. I don't think she needs to cook dinner because we can use something like galley or prepared foods that we can just heat up. The conversation at the table is different when everyone is there (the kids and I are definitely more sillier when mommy is not around) and DW and I talk more together when we're eating with the family - this is based on my observations of when we go out to eat on the weekends.

So yes, they go out to eat as a family every weekend. She comes home for at least one weeknight meal a week to get to his 90% figure. You're judging her for being more present than he was when she was staying home. Saying that no other working mom gets home late on weeknights -- that to say such a thing could be true is a "farce" -- is not true. It's just you are fine with fathers checking out, putting "all their effort" into work, traveling frequently, etc., for the first SEVEN years of their kids' lives, but a mom missing some weeknight dinners and not being the person to pack lunches once they're in school is "almost zero time with her children" and "a complete farce." This is, once again, you grinding an axe. Not factual or even reasonable.

Nope, do you read? I have said repeatedly that every parent should be home by dinnertime the majority of the time, but op never said he was not since we are focusing on what was actually written. If he too missed 90 percent of weeknight dinners, that was bad parenting on his part. One can work and not be described as giving their children "whatever is left over." What axe exactly am I grinding that you find objectionable-- the parents should be spending weeknights with their children?

DP, OP said his work was suffering for him being the one to come home for dinner every night. Tends to suggest that for work to go well, he can't be home as much. So if you're going to take this position, maybe you should also be talking about OP's need to find a different job where he won't face that conflict.

So blame the parent who is currently spending time with the kid? Your poor husband, you sure have it out for men. BTW, he said 'The crazy part for me, is that I bring in 80% of our income and my job is suffering because I have to take care of all the household activities."

Believe or not, women and men both can be bad parents.

Portable goalposts, that's handy!

Whatever, you are hopeless. All you want to hear is that the dh is entirely at fault. Ask yourself why that is.

You're interacting with different people. You've gone from saying this woman is spending zero time with her kids (false) to saying she doesn't see them on the weekends (false) to saying any parent missing weeknight dinners is a bad parent (hmmm, maybe...) to saying, when confronted with proof that OP evidently was in the habit of missing dinners now that attending to dinners is getting him in trouble at work: don't blame him, he's the good one! Your poor husband! (hmmmmmmmmmm, apparently not!).

You do not allow any new information (not that it should be new, if you'd read the thread) to affect your preconceived idea that OP's wife is a bad mother, a claim he has never once made himself. You don't seem very reasonable, and it's not clear what you're getting out of this thread other than to continuously assert that you are a better mother than a woman you've never met, on the basis of ... well that's the question.

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Anonymous wrote:I'm going to be completely honest, if I was your wife and you laid all of this out for me, if would be so alienating to hear that you don't really care that we don't spend much time together outside the bedroom. I imagine it would be very hurtful that your primary interest in me as a partner is as a warm body for you to stick your penis in, and beyond that I'm largely irrelevant except to the extent that I also fawn over all of your contributions to stroke your ego. I mean, you note the lack of conversation but don't include it in your list of things you want, and that speaks volumes.

OP here. This is a fair assessment and yes it does speak volumes. Not trying to make an excuse but maybe that's the difference in needs between a man and a woman. Conversation would be great but that's a bonus to me.

+1000. Amazing (actually, not really) how many DCUM women refuse to recognize and acknowledge how fundamentally differently men and women define a happy marriage

It is amazing (actually, not really) how many DCUM men refuse to recognize and acknowledge how fundamentally offensive it is that men care more about having sex than having a conversation with their wife. The OP straight up admits that conversation is an added bonus but not the thing he actually cares about.

If I found out that my husband thought about me that way, the absolute last thing I would want to do is have more sex with him. You can sit here and talk about sexual connection as being essential to a healthy marriage until the sun goes down, but that the OP and several of the presumably male posters on this thread care more about having sex with their wives than talking to them is offensive as hell. Do your wives know how little you think of them as people, or do you not have wives because your attitude is so off-putting to women?

news flash. you husband does think this way, he is just smooth enough to not let you know that. Pretty much all straight, married men would rather have sex than conversation. This doesn't make them assholes this is just how most men are wired. I am a feminist but even I don't pretend that men are anything other than what they are. Women continue to think that men are some kind of magical creatures and they arent that complicated.

You know, I don't agree with you that that's "how men are" but even if I did, just because someone is an asshole doesn't make it okay that they're an asshole. There are some supposedly innate qualities that are actually not virtuous and should be changed. This is one of them. If you only care about having sex, don't bother getting married. Just pay someone to have sex with you as many times per week as you want. If you care about seeing your wife, maybe consider that wives are not machines that you put things like "conversation" into and have things like "sex" pop out.

I'm a woman and not sure why a husband wanting to have sex with his wife is insulting. Intimacy is a big part of a successful marriage, and I say that as someone who has been married 20 years. If you don't intend to have sex with your husband, would be better as a single woman with a roommate.

PP didn't say intimacy doesn't matter, they said intimacy shouldn't be the only thing that matters.

Reading comprehension. It's a good thing.

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Anonymous wrote:Comparing his first 7 years to her last 3 years isn't apples to oranges. He had the entire financial burden of the family to carry. That's not to blame her -- she was doing her part by maintaining the home front. But the fact is that she's not confronting a similar financial situation when making decisions about how to balance work and family.

OP isn’t worried about the financial burden, apparently. He just cannot handle the burden of deciding if it’s spaghetti or filet for dinner every night, and thinks this should be up to his wife. Well, that and the whole she should be available for sex thing.


OP had his wife’s support for YEARS, in a much more difficult transaction (being SAH). She supported his needs and wants for years. He wouldn’t likely be in the position he is now without her. Her income after many years out of the workforce is nothing to sneeze at, plus it sounds she feels work is part of her identity. It’s her turn. What he is being asked to do is no more than a lot of women are this board are tasked with.

I just think OP likes to feel like “the man” and has certain gender role sterotypes in his mind, whether he sees it or not.

You are so absorbed in your political rhetoric that you've lost sight of the fact that this woman is spending almost zero time with her children. That is not the norm for working moms.

You made that up. She's home for dinner at least 4 nights a week and spends all weekend with them. More time than he spent with them when she was a SAHM.

People on this board are such zealots that they can't even argue from a position of good faith.

Actually op never said one way or other what occurs on weekends, but that his wife is not home for 90 percent of weeknight dinners. You actually are the one making assumptions that aren't based on what has been posted.

He said point blank that she's home Friday, Saturday, and Sunday. He also said she dedicates all her energy to the kids and he's left with "scraps." I get that you think you're really sticking it to feminists or whatever, but you're misrepresenting the thread.

This is taken verbatim from op's first post post:

know she is trying to make up for "lost" time and I don't mind that she works but getting home at 8pm or later everyday does not a happy home make.That said, she really loves what she does and it shows. She pours her heart and soul into her work and that leaves very little for us at home. What is leftover goes to the kids.

I guess the way we comprehend that -- "whatever is leftover" sounds like a lot less to me than you. I've always made six figures as a working mom, and I can count on one hand the number of times I've missed dinner with my kids. Arguing that this woman's home life is just like any other working woman is a farce.

Yes, that was the first post. And this is from his response later: OP here.

I can see both perspectives on the above and based on one of the PP's advice of talking about expectations, I think DW and I need to develop our own set of expectations for each other. I do think it's reasonable for her to be home at least twice a week for dinner. I don't think she needs to cook dinner because we can use something like galley or prepared foods that we can just heat up. The conversation at the table is different when everyone is there (the kids and I are definitely more sillier when mommy is not around) and DW and I talk more together when we're eating with the family - this is based on my observations of when we go out to eat on the weekends.

So yes, they go out to eat as a family every weekend. She comes home for at least one weeknight meal a week to get to his 90% figure. You're judging her for being more present than he was when she was staying home. Saying that no other working mom gets home late on weeknights -- that to say such a thing could be true is a "farce" -- is not true. It's just you are fine with fathers checking out, putting "all their effort" into work, traveling frequently, etc., for the first SEVEN years of their kids' lives, but a mom missing some weeknight dinners and not being the person to pack lunches once they're in school is "almost zero time with her children" and "a complete farce." This is, once again, you grinding an axe. Not factual or even reasonable.

Nope, do you read? I have said repeatedly that every parent should be home by dinnertime the majority of the time, but op never said he was not since we are focusing on what was actually written. If he too missed 90 percent of weeknight dinners, that was bad parenting on his part. One can work and not be described as giving their children "whatever is left over." What axe exactly am I grinding that you find objectionable-- the parents should be spending weeknights with their children?

DP, OP said his work was suffering for him being the one to come home for dinner every night. Tends to suggest that for work to go well, he can't be home as much. So if you're going to take this position, maybe you should also be talking about OP's need to find a different job where he won't face that conflict.

So blame the parent who is currently spending time with the kid? Your poor husband, you sure have it out for men. BTW, he said 'The crazy part for me, is that I bring in 80% of our income and my job is suffering because I have to take care of all the household activities."

Believe or not, women and men both can be bad parents.

Nope, not what I said at all. More like, "Hey OP, I think you need to sit down with your wife and talk about your both your priorities and how it's affecting your family. Your kids need both of you home consistently, so your wife needs to find a better way to balance her career and family that means she comes home for dinner each night, and you need to start looking for a different job that will let you be home every night too without your work suffering." See how that holds both of them to the same standard?

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:I'm going to be completely honest, if I was your wife and you laid all of this out for me, if would be so alienating to hear that you don't really care that we don't spend much time together outside the bedroom. I imagine it would be very hurtful that your primary interest in me as a partner is as a warm body for you to stick your penis in, and beyond that I'm largely irrelevant except to the extent that I also fawn over all of your contributions to stroke your ego. I mean, you note the lack of conversation but don't include it in your list of things you want, and that speaks volumes.

OP here. This is a fair assessment and yes it does speak volumes. Not trying to make an excuse but maybe that's the difference in needs between a man and a woman. Conversation would be great but that's a bonus to me.

+1000. Amazing (actually, not really) how many DCUM women refuse to recognize and acknowledge how fundamentally differently men and women define a happy marriage

It is amazing (actually, not really) how many DCUM men refuse to recognize and acknowledge how fundamentally offensive it is that men care more about having sex than having a conversation with their wife. The OP straight up admits that conversation is an added bonus but not the thing he actually cares about.

If I found out that my husband thought about me that way, the absolute last thing I would want to do is have more sex with him. You can sit here and talk about sexual connection as being essential to a healthy marriage until the sun goes down, but that the OP and several of the presumably male posters on this thread care more about having sex with their wives than talking to them is offensive as hell. Do your wives know how little you think of them as people, or do you not have wives because your attitude is so off-putting to women?

news flash. you husband does think this way, he is just smooth enough to not let you know that. Pretty much all straight, married men would rather have sex than conversation. This doesn't make them assholes this is just how most men are wired. I am a feminist but even I don't pretend that men are anything other than what they are. Women continue to think that men are some kind of magical creatures and they arent that complicated.

You know, I don't agree with you that that's "how men are" but even if I did, just because someone is an asshole doesn't make it okay that they're an asshole. There are some supposedly innate qualities that are actually not virtuous and should be changed. This is one of them. If you only care about having sex, don't bother getting married. Just pay someone to have sex with you as many times per week as you want. If you care about seeing your wife, maybe consider that wives are not machines that you put things like "conversation" into and have things like "sex" pop out.

I'm a woman and not sure why a husband wanting to have sex with his wife is insulting. Intimacy is a big part of a successful marriage, and I say that as someone who has been married 20 years. If you don't intend to have sex with your husband, would be better as a single woman with a roommate.

The OP straight up said that he doesn't care about conversation and just wants more sex. That is insulting. My sex life with my husband is fine because he also is interested in me as a person. Maybe he's a great big liar who is faking his interest in me as a person in order to have sex with me, but the OP sounds like this, "My wife started working a lot and she's never here to see our kids so I have to do all the work and then she's also too tired to have sex with me." What about what she wants? Does he care about that at all? It doesn't sound like it.

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:Comparing his first 7 years to her last 3 years isn't apples to oranges. He had the entire financial burden of the family to carry. That's not to blame her -- she was doing her part by maintaining the home front. But the fact is that she's not confronting a similar financial situation when making decisions about how to balance work and family.

OP isn’t worried about the financial burden, apparently. He just cannot handle the burden of deciding if it’s spaghetti or filet for dinner every night, and thinks this should be up to his wife. Well, that and the whole she should be available for sex thing.


OP had his wife’s support for YEARS, in a much more difficult transaction (being SAH). She supported his needs and wants for years. He wouldn’t likely be in the position he is now without her. Her income after many years out of the workforce is nothing to sneeze at, plus it sounds she feels work is part of her identity. It’s her turn. What he is being asked to do is no more than a lot of women are this board are tasked with.

I just think OP likes to feel like “the man” and has certain gender role sterotypes in his mind, whether he sees it or not.

You are so absorbed in your political rhetoric that you've lost sight of the fact that this woman is spending almost zero time with her children. That is not the norm for working moms.

You made that up. She's home for dinner at least 4 nights a week and spends all weekend with them. More time than he spent with them when she was a SAHM.

People on this board are such zealots that they can't even argue from a position of good faith.

Actually op never said one way or other what occurs on weekends, but that his wife is not home for 90 percent of weeknight dinners. You actually are the one making assumptions that aren't based on what has been posted.

He said point blank that she's home Friday, Saturday, and Sunday. He also said she dedicates all her energy to the kids and he's left with "scraps." I get that you think you're really sticking it to feminists or whatever, but you're misrepresenting the thread.

This is taken verbatim from op's first post post:

know she is trying to make up for "lost" time and I don't mind that she works but getting home at 8pm or later everyday does not a happy home make.That said, she really loves what she does and it shows. She pours her heart and soul into her work and that leaves very little for us at home. What is leftover goes to the kids.

I guess the way we comprehend that -- "whatever is leftover" sounds like a lot less to me than you. I've always made six figures as a working mom, and I can count on one hand the number of times I've missed dinner with my kids. Arguing that this woman's home life is just like any other working woman is a farce.

Yes, that was the first post. And this is from his response later: OP here.

I can see both perspectives on the above and based on one of the PP's advice of talking about expectations, I think DW and I need to develop our own set of expectations for each other. I do think it's reasonable for her to be home at least twice a week for dinner. I don't think she needs to cook dinner because we can use something like galley or prepared foods that we can just heat up. The conversation at the table is different when everyone is there (the kids and I are definitely more sillier when mommy is not around) and DW and I talk more together when we're eating with the family - this is based on my observations of when we go out to eat on the weekends.

So yes, they go out to eat as a family every weekend. She comes home for at least one weeknight meal a week to get to his 90% figure. You're judging her for being more present than he was when she was staying home. Saying that no other working mom gets home late on weeknights -- that to say such a thing could be true is a "farce" -- is not true. It's just you are fine with fathers checking out, putting "all their effort" into work, traveling frequently, etc., for the first SEVEN years of their kids' lives, but a mom missing some weeknight dinners and not being the person to pack lunches once they're in school is "almost zero time with her children" and "a complete farce." This is, once again, you grinding an axe. Not factual or even reasonable.

Nope, do you read? I have said repeatedly that every parent should be home by dinnertime the majority of the time, but op never said he was not since we are focusing on what was actually written. If he too missed 90 percent of weeknight dinners, that was bad parenting on his part. One can work and not be described as giving their children "whatever is left over." What axe exactly am I grinding that you find objectionable-- the parents should be spending weeknights with their children?

DP, OP said his work was suffering for him being the one to come home for dinner every night. Tends to suggest that for work to go well, he can't be home as much. So if you're going to take this position, maybe you should also be talking about OP's need to find a different job where he won't face that conflict.

So blame the parent who is currently spending time with the kid? Your poor husband, you sure have it out for men. BTW, he said 'The crazy part for me, is that I bring in 80% of our income and my job is suffering because I have to take care of all the household activities."

Believe or not, women and men both can be bad parents.

Portable goalposts, that's handy!

Whatever, you are hopeless. All you want to hear is that the dh is entirely at fault. Ask yourself why that is.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm going to be completely honest, if I was your wife and you laid all of this out for me, if would be so alienating to hear that you don't really care that we don't spend much time together outside the bedroom. I imagine it would be very hurtful that your primary interest in me as a partner is as a warm body for you to stick your penis in, and beyond that I'm largely irrelevant except to the extent that I also fawn over all of your contributions to stroke your ego. I mean, you note the lack of conversation but don't include it in your list of things you want, and that speaks volumes.

OP here. This is a fair assessment and yes it does speak volumes. Not trying to make an excuse but maybe that's the difference in needs between a man and a woman. Conversation would be great but that's a bonus to me.

+1000. Amazing (actually, not really) how many DCUM women refuse to recognize and acknowledge how fundamentally differently men and women define a happy marriage

It is amazing (actually, not really) how many DCUM men refuse to recognize and acknowledge how fundamentally offensive it is that men care more about having sex than having a conversation with their wife. The OP straight up admits that conversation is an added bonus but not the thing he actually cares about.

If I found out that my husband thought about me that way, the absolute last thing I would want to do is have more sex with him. You can sit here and talk about sexual connection as being essential to a healthy marriage until the sun goes down, but that the OP and several of the presumably male posters on this thread care more about having sex with their wives than talking to them is offensive as hell. Do your wives know how little you think of them as people, or do you not have wives because your attitude is so off-putting to women?

news flash. you husband does think this way, he is just smooth enough to not let you know that. Pretty much all straight, married men would rather have sex than conversation. This doesn't make them assholes this is just how most men are wired. I am a feminist but even I don't pretend that men are anything other than what they are. Women continue to think that men are some kind of magical creatures and they arent that complicated.

You know, I don't agree with you that that's "how men are" but even if I did, just because someone is an asshole doesn't make it okay that they're an asshole. There are some supposedly innate qualities that are actually not virtuous and should be changed. This is one of them. If you only care about having sex, don't bother getting married. Just pay someone to have sex with you as many times per week as you want. If you care about seeing your wife, maybe consider that wives are not machines that you put things like "conversation" into and have things like "sex" pop out.

I'm a woman and not sure why a husband wanting to have sex with his wife is insulting. Intimacy is a big part of a successful marriage, and I say that as someone who has been married 20 years. If you don't intend to have sex with your husband, would be better as a single woman with a roommate.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Comparing his first 7 years to her last 3 years isn't apples to oranges. He had the entire financial burden of the family to carry. That's not to blame her -- she was doing her part by maintaining the home front. But the fact is that she's not confronting a similar financial situation when making decisions about how to balance work and family.

OP isn’t worried about the financial burden, apparently. He just cannot handle the burden of deciding if it’s spaghetti or filet for dinner every night, and thinks this should be up to his wife. Well, that and the whole she should be available for sex thing.


OP had his wife’s support for YEARS, in a much more difficult transaction (being SAH). She supported his needs and wants for years. He wouldn’t likely be in the position he is now without her. Her income after many years out of the workforce is nothing to sneeze at, plus it sounds she feels work is part of her identity. It’s her turn. What he is being asked to do is no more than a lot of women are this board are tasked with.

I just think OP likes to feel like “the man” and has certain gender role sterotypes in his mind, whether he sees it or not.

You are so absorbed in your political rhetoric that you've lost sight of the fact that this woman is spending almost zero time with her children. That is not the norm for working moms.

You made that up. She's home for dinner at least 4 nights a week and spends all weekend with them. More time than he spent with them when she was a SAHM.

People on this board are such zealots that they can't even argue from a position of good faith.

Actually op never said one way or other what occurs on weekends, but that his wife is not home for 90 percent of weeknight dinners. You actually are the one making assumptions that aren't based on what has been posted.

He said point blank that she's home Friday, Saturday, and Sunday. He also said she dedicates all her energy to the kids and he's left with "scraps." I get that you think you're really sticking it to feminists or whatever, but you're misrepresenting the thread.

This is taken verbatim from op's first post post:

know she is trying to make up for "lost" time and I don't mind that she works but getting home at 8pm or later everyday does not a happy home make.That said, she really loves what she does and it shows. She pours her heart and soul into her work and that leaves very little for us at home. What is leftover goes to the kids.

I guess the way we comprehend that -- "whatever is leftover" sounds like a lot less to me than you. I've always made six figures as a working mom, and I can count on one hand the number of times I've missed dinner with my kids. Arguing that this woman's home life is just like any other working woman is a farce.

Yes, that was the first post. And this is from his response later: OP here.

I can see both perspectives on the above and based on one of the PP's advice of talking about expectations, I think DW and I need to develop our own set of expectations for each other. I do think it's reasonable for her to be home at least twice a week for dinner. I don't think she needs to cook dinner because we can use something like galley or prepared foods that we can just heat up. The conversation at the table is different when everyone is there (the kids and I are definitely more sillier when mommy is not around) and DW and I talk more together when we're eating with the family - this is based on my observations of when we go out to eat on the weekends.

So yes, they go out to eat as a family every weekend. She comes home for at least one weeknight meal a week to get to his 90% figure. You're judging her for being more present than he was when she was staying home. Saying that no other working mom gets home late on weeknights -- that to say such a thing could be true is a "farce" -- is not true. It's just you are fine with fathers checking out, putting "all their effort" into work, traveling frequently, etc., for the first SEVEN years of their kids' lives, but a mom missing some weeknight dinners and not being the person to pack lunches once they're in school is "almost zero time with her children" and "a complete farce." This is, once again, you grinding an axe. Not factual or even reasonable.

Nope, do you read? I have said repeatedly that every parent should be home by dinnertime the majority of the time, but op never said he was not since we are focusing on what was actually written. If he too missed 90 percent of weeknight dinners, that was bad parenting on his part. One can work and not be described as giving their children "whatever is left over." What axe exactly am I grinding that you find objectionable-- the parents should be spending weeknights with their children?

DP, OP said his work was suffering for him being the one to come home for dinner every night. Tends to suggest that for work to go well, he can't be home as much. So if you're going to take this position, maybe you should also be talking about OP's need to find a different job where he won't face that conflict.

So blame the parent who is currently spending time with the kid? Your poor husband, you sure have it out for men. BTW, he said 'The crazy part for me, is that I bring in 80% of our income and my job is suffering because I have to take care of all the household activities."

Believe or not, women and men both can be bad parents.

Portable goalposts, that's handy!

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Comparing his first 7 years to her last 3 years isn't apples to oranges. He had the entire financial burden of the family to carry. That's not to blame her -- she was doing her part by maintaining the home front. But the fact is that she's not confronting a similar financial situation when making decisions about how to balance work and family.

OP isn’t worried about the financial burden, apparently. He just cannot handle the burden of deciding if it’s spaghetti or filet for dinner every night, and thinks this should be up to his wife. Well, that and the whole she should be available for sex thing.


OP had his wife’s support for YEARS, in a much more difficult transaction (being SAH). She supported his needs and wants for years. He wouldn’t likely be in the position he is now without her. Her income after many years out of the workforce is nothing to sneeze at, plus it sounds she feels work is part of her identity. It’s her turn. What he is being asked to do is no more than a lot of women are this board are tasked with.

I just think OP likes to feel like “the man” and has certain gender role sterotypes in his mind, whether he sees it or not.

You are so absorbed in your political rhetoric that you've lost sight of the fact that this woman is spending almost zero time with her children. That is not the norm for working moms.

You made that up. She's home for dinner at least 4 nights a week and spends all weekend with them. More time than he spent with them when she was a SAHM.

People on this board are such zealots that they can't even argue from a position of good faith.

Actually op never said one way or other what occurs on weekends, but that his wife is not home for 90 percent of weeknight dinners. You actually are the one making assumptions that aren't based on what has been posted.

He said point blank that she's home Friday, Saturday, and Sunday. He also said she dedicates all her energy to the kids and he's left with "scraps." I get that you think you're really sticking it to feminists or whatever, but you're misrepresenting the thread.

This is taken verbatim from op's first post post:

know she is trying to make up for "lost" time and I don't mind that she works but getting home at 8pm or later everyday does not a happy home make.That said, she really loves what she does and it shows. She pours her heart and soul into her work and that leaves very little for us at home. What is leftover goes to the kids.

I guess the way we comprehend that -- "whatever is leftover" sounds like a lot less to me than you. I've always made six figures as a working mom, and I can count on one hand the number of times I've missed dinner with my kids. Arguing that this woman's home life is just like any other working woman is a farce.

Yes, that was the first post. And this is from his response later: OP here.

I can see both perspectives on the above and based on one of the PP's advice of talking about expectations, I think DW and I need to develop our own set of expectations for each other. I do think it's reasonable for her to be home at least twice a week for dinner. I don't think she needs to cook dinner because we can use something like galley or prepared foods that we can just heat up. The conversation at the table is different when everyone is there (the kids and I are definitely more sillier when mommy is not around) and DW and I talk more together when we're eating with the family - this is based on my observations of when we go out to eat on the weekends.

So yes, they go out to eat as a family every weekend. She comes home for at least one weeknight meal a week to get to his 90% figure. You're judging her for being more present than he was when she was staying home. Saying that no other working mom gets home late on weeknights -- that to say such a thing could be true is a "farce" -- is not true. It's just you are fine with fathers checking out, putting "all their effort" into work, traveling frequently, etc., for the first SEVEN years of their kids' lives, but a mom missing some weeknight dinners and not being the person to pack lunches once they're in school is "almost zero time with her children" and "a complete farce." This is, once again, you grinding an axe. Not factual or even reasonable.

Nope, do you read? I have said repeatedly that every parent should be home by dinnertime the majority of the time, but op never said he was not since we are focusing on what was actually written. If he too missed 90 percent of weeknight dinners, that was bad parenting on his part. One can work and not be described as giving their children "whatever is left over." What axe exactly am I grinding that you find objectionable-- the parents should be spending weeknights with their children?

DP, OP said his work was suffering for him being the one to come home for dinner every night. Tends to suggest that for work to go well, he can't be home as much. So if you're going to take this position, maybe you should also be talking about OP's need to find a different job where he won't face that conflict.

So blame the parent who is currently spending time with the kid? Your poor husband, you sure have it out for men. BTW, he said 'The crazy part for me, is that I bring in 80% of our income and my job is suffering because I have to take care of all the household activities."

Believe or not, women and men both can be bad parents.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm going to be completely honest, if I was your wife and you laid all of this out for me, if would be so alienating to hear that you don't really care that we don't spend much time together outside the bedroom. I imagine it would be very hurtful that your primary interest in me as a partner is as a warm body for you to stick your penis in, and beyond that I'm largely irrelevant except to the extent that I also fawn over all of your contributions to stroke your ego. I mean, you note the lack of conversation but don't include it in your list of things you want, and that speaks volumes.

OP here. This is a fair assessment and yes it does speak volumes. Not trying to make an excuse but maybe that's the difference in needs between a man and a woman. Conversation would be great but that's a bonus to me.

+1000. Amazing (actually, not really) how many DCUM women refuse to recognize and acknowledge how fundamentally differently men and women define a happy marriage

It is amazing (actually, not really) how many DCUM men refuse to recognize and acknowledge how fundamentally offensive it is that men care more about having sex than having a conversation with their wife. The OP straight up admits that conversation is an added bonus but not the thing he actually cares about.

If I found out that my husband thought about me that way, the absolute last thing I would want to do is have more sex with him. You can sit here and talk about sexual connection as being essential to a healthy marriage until the sun goes down, but that the OP and several of the presumably male posters on this thread care more about having sex with their wives than talking to them is offensive as hell. Do your wives know how little you think of them as people, or do you not have wives because your attitude is so off-putting to women?

news flash. you husband does think this way, he is just smooth enough to not let you know that. Pretty much all straight, married men would rather have sex than conversation. This doesn't make them assholes this is just how most men are wired. I am a feminist but even I don't pretend that men are anything other than what they are. Women continue to think that men are some kind of magical creatures and they arent that complicated.

News flash. You are emotionally stunted. Not everyone is like you.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm going to be completely honest, if I was your wife and you laid all of this out for me, if would be so alienating to hear that you don't really care that we don't spend much time together outside the bedroom. I imagine it would be very hurtful that your primary interest in me as a partner is as a warm body for you to stick your penis in, and beyond that I'm largely irrelevant except to the extent that I also fawn over all of your contributions to stroke your ego. I mean, you note the lack of conversation but don't include it in your list of things you want, and that speaks volumes.

OP here. This is a fair assessment and yes it does speak volumes. Not trying to make an excuse but maybe that's the difference in needs between a man and a woman. Conversation would be great but that's a bonus to me.

+1000. Amazing (actually, not really) how many DCUM women refuse to recognize and acknowledge how fundamentally differently men and women define a happy marriage

It is amazing (actually, not really) how many DCUM men refuse to recognize and acknowledge how fundamentally offensive it is that men care more about having sex than having a conversation with their wife. The OP straight up admits that conversation is an added bonus but not the thing he actually cares about.

If I found out that my husband thought about me that way, the absolute last thing I would want to do is have more sex with him. You can sit here and talk about sexual connection as being essential to a healthy marriage until the sun goes down, but that the OP and several of the presumably male posters on this thread care more about having sex with their wives than talking to them is offensive as hell. Do your wives know how little you think of them as people, or do you not have wives because your attitude is so off-putting to women?

news flash. you husband does think this way, he is just smooth enough to not let you know that. Pretty much all straight, married men would rather have sex than conversation. This doesn't make them assholes this is just how most men are wired. I am a feminist but even I don't pretend that men are anything other than what they are. Women continue to think that men are some kind of magical creatures and they arent that complicated.

You know, I don't agree with you that that's "how men are" but even if I did, just because someone is an asshole doesn't make it okay that they're an asshole. There are some supposedly innate qualities that are actually not virtuous and should be changed. This is one of them. If you only care about having sex, don't bother getting married. Just pay someone to have sex with you as many times per week as you want. If you care about seeing your wife, maybe consider that wives are not machines that you put things like "conversation" into and have things like "sex" pop out.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm going to be completely honest, if I was your wife and you laid all of this out for me, if would be so alienating to hear that you don't really care that we don't spend much time together outside the bedroom. I imagine it would be very hurtful that your primary interest in me as a partner is as a warm body for you to stick your penis in, and beyond that I'm largely irrelevant except to the extent that I also fawn over all of your contributions to stroke your ego. I mean, you note the lack of conversation but don't include it in your list of things you want, and that speaks volumes.

OP here. This is a fair assessment and yes it does speak volumes. Not trying to make an excuse but maybe that's the difference in needs between a man and a woman. Conversation would be great but that's a bonus to me.

+1000. Amazing (actually, not really) how many DCUM women refuse to recognize and acknowledge how fundamentally differently men and women define a happy marriage

It is amazing (actually, not really) how many DCUM men refuse to recognize and acknowledge how fundamentally offensive it is that men care more about having sex than having a conversation with their wife. The OP straight up admits that conversation is an added bonus but not the thing he actually cares about.

If I found out that my husband thought about me that way, the absolute last thing I would want to do is have more sex with him. You can sit here and talk about sexual connection as being essential to a healthy marriage until the sun goes down, but that the OP and several of the presumably male posters on this thread care more about having sex with their wives than talking to them is offensive as hell. Do your wives know how little you think of them as people, or do you not have wives because your attitude is so off-putting to women?

news flash. you husband does think this way, he is just smooth enough to not let you know that. Pretty much all straight, married men would rather have sex than conversation. This doesn't make them assholes this is just how most men are wired. I am a feminist but even I don't pretend that men are anything other than what they are. Women continue to think that men are some kind of magical creatures and they arent that complicated.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Comparing his first 7 years to her last 3 years isn't apples to oranges. He had the entire financial burden of the family to carry. That's not to blame her -- she was doing her part by maintaining the home front. But the fact is that she's not confronting a similar financial situation when making decisions about how to balance work and family.

OP isn’t worried about the financial burden, apparently. He just cannot handle the burden of deciding if it’s spaghetti or filet for dinner every night, and thinks this should be up to his wife. Well, that and the whole she should be available for sex thing.


OP had his wife’s support for YEARS, in a much more difficult transaction (being SAH). She supported his needs and wants for years. He wouldn’t likely be in the position he is now without her. Her income after many years out of the workforce is nothing to sneeze at, plus it sounds she feels work is part of her identity. It’s her turn. What he is being asked to do is no more than a lot of women are this board are tasked with.

I just think OP likes to feel like “the man” and has certain gender role sterotypes in his mind, whether he sees it or not.

You are so absorbed in your political rhetoric that you've lost sight of the fact that this woman is spending almost zero time with her children. That is not the norm for working moms.

You made that up. She's home for dinner at least 4 nights a week and spends all weekend with them. More time than he spent with them when she was a SAHM.

People on this board are such zealots that they can't even argue from a position of good faith.

Actually op never said one way or other what occurs on weekends, but that his wife is not home for 90 percent of weeknight dinners. You actually are the one making assumptions that aren't based on what has been posted.

He said point blank that she's home Friday, Saturday, and Sunday. He also said she dedicates all her energy to the kids and he's left with "scraps." I get that you think you're really sticking it to feminists or whatever, but you're misrepresenting the thread.

This is taken verbatim from op's first post post:

know she is trying to make up for "lost" time and I don't mind that she works but getting home at 8pm or later everyday does not a happy home make.That said, she really loves what she does and it shows. She pours her heart and soul into her work and that leaves very little for us at home. What is leftover goes to the kids.

I guess the way we comprehend that -- "whatever is leftover" sounds like a lot less to me than you. I've always made six figures as a working mom, and I can count on one hand the number of times I've missed dinner with my kids. Arguing that this woman's home life is just like any other working woman is a farce.

Yes, that was the first post. And this is from his response later: OP here.

I can see both perspectives on the above and based on one of the PP's advice of talking about expectations, I think DW and I need to develop our own set of expectations for each other. I do think it's reasonable for her to be home at least twice a week for dinner. I don't think she needs to cook dinner because we can use something like galley or prepared foods that we can just heat up. The conversation at the table is different when everyone is there (the kids and I are definitely more sillier when mommy is not around) and DW and I talk more together when we're eating with the family - this is based on my observations of when we go out to eat on the weekends.

So yes, they go out to eat as a family every weekend. She comes home for at least one weeknight meal a week to get to his 90% figure. You're judging her for being more present than he was when she was staying home. Saying that no other working mom gets home late on weeknights -- that to say such a thing could be true is a "farce" -- is not true. It's just you are fine with fathers checking out, putting "all their effort" into work, traveling frequently, etc., for the first SEVEN years of their kids' lives, but a mom missing some weeknight dinners and not being the person to pack lunches once they're in school is "almost zero time with her children" and "a complete farce." This is, once again, you grinding an axe. Not factual or even reasonable.

Nope, do you read? I have said repeatedly that every parent should be home by dinnertime the majority of the time, but op never said he was not since we are focusing on what was actually written. If he too missed 90 percent of weeknight dinners, that was bad parenting on his part. One can work and not be described as giving their children "whatever is left over." What axe exactly am I grinding that you find objectionable-- the parents should be spending weeknights with their children?

DP, OP said his work was suffering for him being the one to come home for dinner every night. Tends to suggest that for work to go well, he can't be home as much. So if you're going to take this position, maybe you should also be talking about OP's need to find a different job where he won't face that conflict.

Anonymous wrote:Regardless of whether you're a man or a woman, I think the way we tie our identities and sense of self-worth to our employment is the source of a lot of problems in society.

When the robots do everything, the people who own robots are going to be rich, the rest of us are going to be poor, and nobody is going to know where to find their identity.

I think there's probably some truth in that, but until the standard is the same for men as it is for women ("Why do you need to work? Stop looking for identity in your job and focus on your family!"), it's still sexist as hell.

Regardless of whether you're a man or a woman, I think the way we tie our identities and sense of self-worth to our employment is the source of a lot of problems in society.

When the robots do everything, the people who own robots are going to be rich, the rest of us are going to be poor, and nobody is going to know where to find their identity.