Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So, I was in a meeting about a week before school let out for winter break. We have a particular set of meetings once a month for 2 hours which I think are a waste of time. I bluntly came out right then and there in the meeting and stated that while I agreed with the end goal of the meeting, that the way we were going about it left most of us feeling like we were wasting time and I actually said, "This is really boring and a waste of time" in the meeting. The admin in charge, who I truly love and respect, kindly said, "Yeah, some of you already know exactly what to do, but to be honest, we as admins simply don't have the capacity to differentiate these PD's".

I've thought long and hard about going to that same admin and seeing if we could brainstorm a way to make use of our time in a way that makes more sense. But that would mean signing myself up for MORE work. I'm already at MY capacity for hours at work. I have no more time to give without stealing my time with my family and I'm done doing that. So, I feel like I just have to accept another 2 years worth of once a month meetings that are a complete and total loss for me and many of my colleagues. Better than losing MORE time and seeing my own children even less than I do know.

I'm not tenured in this district and I already have a reputation for saying the things no one else will say. I know each time I do, I take the risk of being fired at the end of the year. That's slightly terrifying to me, as I love my work outside of stupid meetings and we need my salary. But I'm terrible at hiding how I feel and what I think. At the same time, I've been doing this long enough now to know that pretty much nothing I say is going to make a difference. It is very frustrating.

Yes, you WOULD be fired at the end of the year for this at my school. I'm not saying that what you said was incorrect, but I'm shocked that you seem to think speaking like this to a "higher up" in a meeting, in front of other people, is appropriate.

THIS is why we have all these problems in the first place - a culture which insists that teachers should never express any opinion that is not 100% positive, bright, cheery, and completely supportive of whatever idiotic things comes down the pipeline. We are supposed to be robotic and never think critically - what a joke, when teachers are supposed to teach critical thinking but aren't permitted to practice it. When everyone just goes along with everything regardless of what their professional knowledge tells them, that's when we have a system where teacher time is routinely wasted and teachers have no voice. It's not disrespectful to be a professional and voice an opinion - it's disrespectful to believe that professionals shouldn't have any opinions.

See, here's the thing: you say that "it's not disrespectful to be a professional and voice an opinion", and I agree with this, but I think you are absolutely wrong in failing to distinguish between a professional way of voicing the opinion from what you did: "I bluntly came out right then and there in the meeting and stated that while I agreed with the end goal of the meeting, that the way we were going about it left most of us feeling like we were wasting time and I actually said, 'This is really boring and a waste of time' in the meeting." The professional way to communicate your ideas would have been to schedule a meeting (or even drop by the office) of your administrator to discuss your ideas about the meeting material/format. It was NOT professional to "bluntly cme out right then and there in the meeting" and announce that "This is really boring and a waste of time" in the meeting. You were unprofessional and rude. Your administrator is not going to respect you for this kind of behavior, and this is not the way to voice your opinion. You could/should have found a respectful, professional way to communicate dissatisfaction/suggestions to your administrator. Professional delivery of ideas will result in better results, always. No one respects a person who rudely blurts out ANYTHING the way you did, in the context in which you made your announcement.

Here's a tip: I've seen many teachers believe that "taking a stand" (by risking their jobs via rash/rude/unprofessional behavior) will "make a difference", but...while the drama makes a splash at the time, 1. other teachers/admin are not impressed by unprofessional behavior, no matter the message, and 2. after you are fired, you will NOT be going out in a blaze of glory as someone whose actions make admin decide to change policy: teachers who are fired or leave in a fit of pique are forgotten very quickly, and they do not make any difference at all. Dead Poets Society is a movie, OP. Real life doesn't work like that, and on one is going to stand on their desks in admiration to watch you go after you decided to mouth off in a rude, unprofessional way in the middle of a meeting.

I suggest you schedule a meeting with your admin and arrive prepared to speak respectfully, with suggestions for solutions to what you see as problems. THIS is the professional way to voice an opinion.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So, I was in a meeting about a week before school let out for winter break. We have a particular set of meetings once a month for 2 hours which I think are a waste of time. I bluntly came out right then and there in the meeting and stated that while I agreed with the end goal of the meeting, that the way we were going about it left most of us feeling like we were wasting time and I actually said, "This is really boring and a waste of time" in the meeting. The admin in charge, who I truly love and respect, kindly said, "Yeah, some of you already know exactly what to do, but to be honest, we as admins simply don't have the capacity to differentiate these PD's".

I've thought long and hard about going to that same admin and seeing if we could brainstorm a way to make use of our time in a way that makes more sense. But that would mean signing myself up for MORE work. I'm already at MY capacity for hours at work. I have no more time to give without stealing my time with my family and I'm done doing that. So, I feel like I just have to accept another 2 years worth of once a month meetings that are a complete and total loss for me and many of my colleagues. Better than losing MORE time and seeing my own children even less than I do know.

I'm not tenured in this district and I already have a reputation for saying the things no one else will say. I know each time I do, I take the risk of being fired at the end of the year. That's slightly terrifying to me, as I love my work outside of stupid meetings and we need my salary. But I'm terrible at hiding how I feel and what I think. At the same time, I've been doing this long enough now to know that pretty much nothing I say is going to make a difference. It is very frustrating.

Yes, you WOULD be fired at the end of the year for this at my school. I'm not saying that what you said was incorrect, but I'm shocked that you seem to think speaking like this to a "higher up" in a meeting, in front of other people, is appropriate.

THIS is why we have all these problems in the first place - a culture which insists that teachers should never express any opinion that is not 100% positive, bright, cheery, and completely supportive of whatever idiotic things comes down the pipeline. We are supposed to be robotic and never think critically - what a joke, when teachers are supposed to teach critical thinking but aren't permitted to practice it. When everyone just goes along with everything regardless of what their professional knowledge tells them, that's when we have a system where teacher time is routinely wasted and teachers have no voice. It's not disrespectful to be a professional and voice an opinion - it's disrespectful to believe that professionals shouldn't have any opinions.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Exactly. Teachers blame parents for putting too much pressure on them, but then want to be called experts. Yet aren't willing to use their expertise for anything. So then why do I have to consider them experts? I'm happy to do so, but only if they are going to use their expertise to help children and not just their own salary.

And based on your post, you clearly aren't using your parental "expertise" to raise your own children.

Thanks for supporting the FACT that teachers can only do so much with YOUR children.

Happy New Year and much luck raising your kids.

Teachers are within their rights to discuss their own internal meetings and they have the power to discuss what is and isn't working. You have proven nothing except that teachers are afraid to speak up about anything and so just go along with the system and instead of working on making it better complain on media. You've also proven absolutely nothing about my own parental expertise.

I do speak up, which is apparent in my response to you, as I feel the need to defend my profession and my colleagues.

You, however, are shifting blame on teachers, which does indeed capture your parenting style quite well.

Much luck in 2018!

Not true at all. There is no blame. Parents really don't care that much about internal meetings. I just think teachers should be responsible for their internal meetings. I'm giving them more credit as professionals than you do. This is not about blame. It is about responsibility. And you apparently don't think teachers are up to the task of taking responsibility for their own meetings.

NP. You don't get it. Once central office decides these meetings are mandatory, they're mandatory. Once someone sitting in an office who hasn't taught in years makes these decisions, they're written in stone. Even if teachers contacted central office en masse they'd say something along the lines of "that's nice, but it's mandated". Or like a PP said they'd task teachers to spend even more time coming up with a proposal which they'd promptly reject. I can't tell you how many surveys I've completed, committees I've joined (uncompensated for my time), testified at BOE meetings, written to the superintendent etc. giving feedback which is completely ignored. They pay lip service to seeking feedback from all stakeholders, but it's only lip service when it comes to the people who actually have boots on the ground. I didn't believe it until I started getting involved at the county level. Like you, I thought that they just weren't hearing enough feedback. They talk a good game when they act like they care what we say but they really don't care.

To say that "teachers aren't up to the task of taking responsibility for their own meetings" just shows that you have no experience as a teacher in a public school system. It's a completely different animal than other places of work that you may have experienced. If it worked the way you think it works, why would there be so much frustration and dissatisfaction?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Exactly. Teachers blame parents for putting too much pressure on them, but then want to be called experts. Yet aren't willing to use their expertise for anything. So then why do I have to consider them experts? I'm happy to do so, but only if they are going to use their expertise to help children and not just their own salary.

And based on your post, you clearly aren't using your parental "expertise" to raise your own children.

Thanks for supporting the FACT that teachers can only do so much with YOUR children.

Happy New Year and much luck raising your kids.

Teachers are within their rights to discuss their own internal meetings and they have the power to discuss what is and isn't working. You have proven nothing except that teachers are afraid to speak up about anything and so just go along with the system and instead of working on making it better complain on media. You've also proven absolutely nothing about my own parental expertise.

I do speak up, which is apparent in my response to you, as I feel the need to defend my profession and my colleagues.

You, however, are shifting blame on teachers, which does indeed capture your parenting style quite well.

Much luck in 2018!

Not true at all. There is no blame. Parents really don't care that much about internal meetings. I just think teachers should be responsible for their internal meetings. I'm giving them more credit as professionals than you do. This is not about blame. It is about responsibility. And you apparently don't think teachers are up to the task of taking responsibility for their own meetings.

deflection

Do you tell your boss (if you work, that is) that you refuse to participate in a meeting? Apparently, it's so easy to do, right?

You can return and post as much as you like, but you aren't helping in any way. Parents like you are part of the problem, but you can't see that.

We don’t need 90% of the meetings. I need that time to plan and grade. I don’t need an entire daylong PD to listen to a “new” initiative which is actually what we did four years ago but it was called something else.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Exactly. Teachers blame parents for putting too much pressure on them, but then want to be called experts. Yet aren't willing to use their expertise for anything. So then why do I have to consider them experts? I'm happy to do so, but only if they are going to use their expertise to help children and not just their own salary.

And based on your post, you clearly aren't using your parental "expertise" to raise your own children.

Thanks for supporting the FACT that teachers can only do so much with YOUR children.

Happy New Year and much luck raising your kids.

Teachers are within their rights to discuss their own internal meetings and they have the power to discuss what is and isn't working. You have proven nothing except that teachers are afraid to speak up about anything and so just go along with the system and instead of working on making it better complain on media. You've also proven absolutely nothing about my own parental expertise.

I do speak up, which is apparent in my response to you, as I feel the need to defend my profession and my colleagues.

You, however, are shifting blame on teachers, which does indeed capture your parenting style quite well.

Much luck in 2018!

Not true at all. There is no blame. Parents really don't care that much about internal meetings. I just think teachers should be responsible for their internal meetings. I'm giving them more credit as professionals than you do. This is not about blame. It is about responsibility. And you apparently don't think teachers are up to the task of taking responsibility for their own meetings.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Exactly. Teachers blame parents for putting too much pressure on them, but then want to be called experts. Yet aren't willing to use their expertise for anything. So then why do I have to consider them experts? I'm happy to do so, but only if they are going to use their expertise to help children and not just their own salary.

And based on your post, you clearly aren't using your parental "expertise" to raise your own children.

Thanks for supporting the FACT that teachers can only do so much with YOUR children.

Happy New Year and much luck raising your kids.

Teachers are within their rights to discuss their own internal meetings and they have the power to discuss what is and isn't working. You have proven nothing except that teachers are afraid to speak up about anything and so just go along with the system and instead of working on making it better complain on media. You've also proven absolutely nothing about my own parental expertise.

I do speak up, which is apparent in my response to you, as I feel the need to defend my profession and my colleagues.

You, however, are shifting blame on teachers, which does indeed capture your parenting style quite well.

Much luck in 2018!

Anonymous wrote:I just love to go meetings to "unpack the standards " and then "drill into the data" to discover that Johnny can't subtract as well as Bobby can. I knew that in the first hour of math instruction in September. But, I must learn how to differentiate my teaching and use a project based assessment to show that kids are achieving so the stakeholders will be happy. Don't forget to "jot your thought" on a sticky note and share it with your "elbow partner" before taking a "gallery walk" to see other' ideas posted on the "parking lot" large sheets of paper (which will never see the light of day again).

funny . . . this whole "unpacking standards" crap

The fact that standards are so wordy and complex is conspiratorial in my mind. It's a way to control our time w/o producing the results we KNOW we could produce if we were treated as professionals instead of robots.

I like project-based assignments, but they have to be meaningful - or rather, purposeful. You don't jump into PBL before understanding how it might impact the team's instructional practices.

We're so robotic in nature that the kids have no opportunities to reflect, nor do they develop empathy. It's all about "efficiency" with Chromebooks. Screw the human element.

Anonymous wrote:So, I was in a meeting about a week before school let out for winter break. We have a particular set of meetings once a month for 2 hours which I think are a waste of time. I bluntly came out right then and there in the meeting and stated that while I agreed with the end goal of the meeting, that the way we were going about it left most of us feeling like we were wasting time and I actually said, "This is really boring and a waste of time" in the meeting. The admin in charge, who I truly love and respect, kindly said, "Yeah, some of you already know exactly what to do, but to be honest, we as admins simply don't have the capacity to differentiate these PD's".

I've thought long and hard about going to that same admin and seeing if we could brainstorm a way to make use of our time in a way that makes more sense. But that would mean signing myself up for MORE work. I'm already at MY capacity for hours at work. I have no more time to give without stealing my time with my family and I'm done doing that. So, I feel like I just have to accept another 2 years worth of once a month meetings that are a complete and total loss for me and many of my colleagues. Better than losing MORE time and seeing my own children even less than I do know.

I'm not tenured in this district and I already have a reputation for saying the things no one else will say. I know each time I do, I take the risk of being fired at the end of the year. That's slightly terrifying to me, as I love my work outside of stupid meetings and we need my salary. But I'm terrible at hiding how I feel and what I think. At the same time, I've been doing this long enough now to know that pretty much nothing I say is going to make a difference. It is very frustrating.

Yes, you WOULD be fired at the end of the year for this at my school. I'm not saying that what you said was incorrect, but I'm shocked that you seem to think speaking like this to a "higher up" in a meeting, in front of other people, is appropriate.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I just love to go meetings to "unpack the standards " and then "drill into the data" to discover that Johnny can't subtract as well as Bobby can. I knew that in the first hour of math instruction in September. But, I must learn how to differentiate my teaching and use a project based assessment to show that kids are achieving so the stakeholders will be happy. Don't forget to "jot your thought" on a sticky note and share it with your "elbow partner" before taking a "gallery walk" to see other' ideas posted on the "parking lot" large sheets of paper (which will never see the light of day again).

You want to know what I'm tired of? Teachers that complain but never do so to their bosses. No parent knows about meetings that you have and no taxpayer really wants to fund them. If they are ineffective step up and say something about it. Teachers are among the top five types of employees in the country. How is it possible that you have no say in your own meetings?

Also, don't act like you really check whether Johnny is achieving whether you know his skills the first week or the 100th. Weeks go by and you probably haven't checked a single paper. Teachers don't grade papers at home or after work anymore and are just as on board with getting rid of worksheets and any proof of learning as the admin.

I

You have no idea what you are talking about, and your ridiculous attitude will harm your child's education.

I spend hours grading at home (high school English teacher). Each night after dinner I'm at the kitchen table reading essays and writing careful comments, and I do this on Sunday afternoon as well. Saturday is the only day on which I don't work at home (for my mental well-being, and to take care of essential household stuff). I know parents like you, and you are doing your kids no favors in modeling disrespect and scorn for their teachers.

So, I was in a meeting about a week before school let out for winter break. We have a particular set of meetings once a month for 2 hours which I think are a waste of time. I bluntly came out right then and there in the meeting and stated that while I agreed with the end goal of the meeting, that the way we were going about it left most of us feeling like we were wasting time and I actually said, "This is really boring and a waste of time" in the meeting. The admin in charge, who I truly love and respect, kindly said, "Yeah, some of you already know exactly what to do, but to be honest, we as admins simply don't have the capacity to differentiate these PD's".

While this turned out alright for you, this isn't how you go about advocating for change.

Anonymous wrote:So, I was in a meeting about a week before school let out for winter break. We have a particular set of meetings once a month for 2 hours which I think are a waste of time. I bluntly came out right then and there in the meeting and stated that while I agreed with the end goal of the meeting, that the way we were going about it left most of us feeling like we were wasting time and I actually said, "This is really boring and a waste of time" in the meeting. The admin in charge, who I truly love and respect, kindly said, "Yeah, some of you already know exactly what to do, but to be honest, we as admins simply don't have the capacity to differentiate these PD's".

I've thought long and hard about going to that same admin and seeing if we could brainstorm a way to make use of our time in a way that makes more sense. But that would mean signing myself up for MORE work. I'm already at MY capacity for hours at work. I have no more time to give without stealing my time with my family and I'm done doing that. So, I feel like I just have to accept another 2 years worth of once a month meetings that are a complete and total loss for me and many of my colleagues. Better than losing MORE time and seeing my own children even less than I do know.

I'm not tenured in this district and I already have a reputation for saying the things no one else will say. I know each time I do, I take the risk of being fired at the end of the year. That's slightly terrifying to me, as I love my work outside of stupid meetings and we need my salary. But I'm terrible at hiding how I feel and what I think. At the same time, I've been doing this long enough now to know that pretty much nothing I say is going to make a difference. It is very frustrating.

I was you about 15 years ago. I survived in the school for almost 7 years, but by then was so burned, frustrated, and just plain angry that I really should have left sooner. I left the county schools and took a job in a private school making a lot less money, but where I could actually teach. My husband wants me to go back to public so I can bring in more income, but every time I even think about it I just want to run away. I don't think I can go back unless we're actually starving.

Didn't read the whole thread, but I'm a teacher and it's all just exactly like the OP said. Anyone who doesn't get it just hasn't been a teacher.

Anonymous wrote: So, I feel like I just have to accept another 2 years worth of once a month meetings that are a complete and total loss for me and many of my colleagues.

Why do you think you only have to get through 2 more years of waste-of-time meetings? Do you plan to leave the teaching profession in 2 years?

So, I was in a meeting about a week before school let out for winter break. We have a particular set of meetings once a month for 2 hours which I think are a waste of time. I bluntly came out right then and there in the meeting and stated that while I agreed with the end goal of the meeting, that the way we were going about it left most of us feeling like we were wasting time and I actually said, "This is really boring and a waste of time" in the meeting. The admin in charge, who I truly love and respect, kindly said, "Yeah, some of you already know exactly what to do, but to be honest, we as admins simply don't have the capacity to differentiate these PD's".

I've thought long and hard about going to that same admin and seeing if we could brainstorm a way to make use of our time in a way that makes more sense. But that would mean signing myself up for MORE work. I'm already at MY capacity for hours at work. I have no more time to give without stealing my time with my family and I'm done doing that. So, I feel like I just have to accept another 2 years worth of once a month meetings that are a complete and total loss for me and many of my colleagues. Better than losing MORE time and seeing my own children even less than I do know.

I'm not tenured in this district and I already have a reputation for saying the things no one else will say. I know each time I do, I take the risk of being fired at the end of the year. That's slightly terrifying to me, as I love my work outside of stupid meetings and we need my salary. But I'm terrible at hiding how I feel and what I think. At the same time, I've been doing this long enough now to know that pretty much nothing I say is going to make a difference. It is very frustrating.