Anonymous wrote:

I am not the ominous black cloud person. The kids clearly need such a cloud. The problem is it arrives way too late in the day.

I agree these kids need a Black Cloud. I also agree it would help if OP got home earlier.

But OP can’t do this by herself—her DH needs to be on board. I was the tougher parent with a gaslighting DH, who undermined me when the kids had bad grades and tried to be their “friend” instead of a parent. OP’s DH sounds like the type who clearly communicates his “different values” to their kids. If he doesn’t actually roll his eyes in front of them, then if nothing else the fact that he does nothing to support her sends a clear message to the kids that he disagrees.

OP, for the sake of you kids, you need to commit to doing the very hard work of undoing all the damage done to your kids by this neglect, and then get to it. It sounds like your husband dropped the ball on the agreement (or assumptions?) you had, but you also have to play a very active role in turning things around. Find a GREAT, experienced, patient, and highly recommended, professional child behavior therapist and work out a budget for having them work with each of your kids one-on-one, as well as with you, along with any group therapy. Then follow the advice at home to a T. Tell their teachers what is happening and ask for frequent reports/communication (some teachers will cooperate, some won't but your goal is to make as much of the interactions in their lives positive and focused on turning things around). Talk to your husband if you can. Try not to blame him and/or see if you can motivate him somehow. This will take years (4?) to undo and set them on the right track but it can be done and it will be worth it.

See this to know you're not alone: https://www.verywell.com/when-do-child-behavioral-problems-require-professionals-1094789

Anonymous wrote:The fact that he takes them to restaurants instead of making them eat what she cooks is a big red flag.

Talk about spoiling and teaching entitlement! Plus he’s undermining her in more ways than the grades. He’s also basically saying to their kids, “I agree that mom’s cooking sucks, so let’s go to Olive Garden.” What a jerk.

OP needs to stop cooking crap no one wants to eat and focus on important things.

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Anonymous wrote:I just picture this dad and the kids, kicked back and relaxing after a busy day at work, school, activities, errand running. Then the Ominous Black Cloud walks through the door threatening to rain all over them......

+1

That's what I thought.

I'm not the OP, but in her defense, there are certain objective things that make it clear that they aren't as busy as they should be at school. Like grades. I simply can't imagine treating my kids to things like manicures (!) when they don't even do their homework every day. If the grades were good and it was just OP's perception of a messy house, then I might be more inclined to lean the other way.

+1. If the grades are bad, then something needs to change. Calling OP Ominous Black Cloud is unhelpful and mean. Worse, it undermines her by making her the problem instead of the grades.

Op is walking into her house and wanting everything to be magically done already. When it isn't done already, she gets into a snit and her husband takes the kids out of the house and goes to dinner..probably to give her some space.

Ominous Black Cloud may sound mean but I will about bet you that that is the way her family feels when she walks through the door. Her husband has been tasked with everything from cleaning the house, to making sure his kids brush their teeth, to buying their clothes, to making sure their snacks aren't "junk".....and when that doesn't all get done to Op's standards, Op gets into a snit. And all that complaining that she does serves to undermine any authority her husband has over the kids - she pretty much diminishes him down to the level of errant child.

To fix this, Op is going to need to approach her husband as a grown up rather than an unruly subordinate.

Nope. OP wants some of these things to have been started, not necessarily finished. Where did OP say “finish”? Everybody with middle and high school kids knows that waiting until 8pm for dinner and then starting homework and whatever else is too late. If her kids are watching cable and getting manicures at the mall until 8pm, that’s actually a problem.

But hey, go ahead and denigrate the one person who seems concerned about it.

Op mentions that she comes home and cooks. If the kids and her husband to want to eat what she's making they go out to a restaurant.

I do not get the impression that Op is coming home, sitting down with the kids and helping them with homework. I don't believe that she has mentioned that she does help with schoolwork. Yet, the children's bad grades a worry to her.

These are MS/HS aged kids. Why not check their grades and assignments every day online. Then text them to remind them that they have a test to study for, a paper due, etc. When Op gets home she can quiz them on the test material, maybe look over a paper for grammatical errors.

Well she can’t cook and help with homework very well at the same time. She can tell them to start their homework, but that’s about it. Why isn’t this glaringly obvious? Then she finishes cooking and they finish eating, and it’s what, 9pm? And she’s exhausted, just like her spouse who’s apparently still on the couch. But maybe she does help a little with homework, until everybody goes to bed.

OP should devote the little time she spends with her kids to academics. Instead, she cooks (what??). just like her #1 complaint is that "house is a mess" rather than kids are failing in school. OP has twisted priorities. If she clearly chose academics over all the other crap maybe her husband would follow through.

The fact that he takes them to restaurants instead of making them eat what she cooks is a big red flag.

Talk about spoiling and teaching entitlement! Plus he’s undermining her in more ways than the grades. He’s also basically saying to their kids, “I agree that mom’s cooking sucks, so let’s go to Olive Garden.” What a jerk.

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I just picture this dad and the kids, kicked back and relaxing after a busy day at work, school, activities, errand running. Then the Ominous Black Cloud walks through the door threatening to rain all over them......

+1

That's what I thought.

I'm not the OP, but in her defense, there are certain objective things that make it clear that they aren't as busy as they should be at school. Like grades. I simply can't imagine treating my kids to things like manicures (!) when they don't even do their homework every day. If the grades were good and it was just OP's perception of a messy house, then I might be more inclined to lean the other way.

+1. If the grades are bad, then something needs to change. Calling OP Ominous Black Cloud is unhelpful and mean. Worse, it undermines her by making her the problem instead of the grades.

Op is walking into her house and wanting everything to be magically done already. When it isn't done already, she gets into a snit and her husband takes the kids out of the house and goes to dinner..probably to give her some space.

Ominous Black Cloud may sound mean but I will about bet you that that is the way her family feels when she walks through the door. Her husband has been tasked with everything from cleaning the house, to making sure his kids brush their teeth, to buying their clothes, to making sure their snacks aren't "junk".....and when that doesn't all get done to Op's standards, Op gets into a snit. And all that complaining that she does serves to undermine any authority her husband has over the kids - she pretty much diminishes him down to the level of errant child.

To fix this, Op is going to need to approach her husband as a grown up rather than an unruly subordinate.

Nope. OP wants some of these things to have been started, not necessarily finished. Where did OP say “finish”? Everybody with middle and high school kids knows that waiting until 8pm for dinner and then starting homework and whatever else is too late. If her kids are watching cable and getting manicures at the mall until 8pm, that’s actually a problem.

But hey, go ahead and denigrate the one person who seems concerned about it.

if OP were concerned she wouldn't be coming home at 8 pm night after night.

I agree she should adjust her schedule.

But now you’re setting up a Catch 22:
- if she’s concerned, she should change jobs so she can fix the problem herself, because it’s ok that DH is sitting on the couch watching cable with the kids and he shouldn’t have to change anything
- but if she’s concerned, that makes her an Ominous Black Cloud for the poor kids with bad grades and the poor DH who shouldn’t be expected to change

Way to make her the villain no matter she does. Mean.

I am not the ominous black cloud person. The kids clearly need such a cloud. The problem is it arrives way too late in the day.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I just picture this dad and the kids, kicked back and relaxing after a busy day at work, school, activities, errand running. Then the Ominous Black Cloud walks through the door threatening to rain all over them......

+1

That's what I thought.

I'm not the OP, but in her defense, there are certain objective things that make it clear that they aren't as busy as they should be at school. Like grades. I simply can't imagine treating my kids to things like manicures (!) when they don't even do their homework every day. If the grades were good and it was just OP's perception of a messy house, then I might be more inclined to lean the other way.

+1. If the grades are bad, then something needs to change. Calling OP Ominous Black Cloud is unhelpful and mean. Worse, it undermines her by making her the problem instead of the grades.

Op is walking into her house and wanting everything to be magically done already. When it isn't done already, she gets into a snit and her husband takes the kids out of the house and goes to dinner..probably to give her some space.

Ominous Black Cloud may sound mean but I will about bet you that that is the way her family feels when she walks through the door. Her husband has been tasked with everything from cleaning the house, to making sure his kids brush their teeth, to buying their clothes, to making sure their snacks aren't "junk".....and when that doesn't all get done to Op's standards, Op gets into a snit. And all that complaining that she does serves to undermine any authority her husband has over the kids - she pretty much diminishes him down to the level of errant child.

To fix this, Op is going to need to approach her husband as a grown up rather than an unruly subordinate.

Nope. OP wants some of these things to have been started, not necessarily finished. Where did OP say “finish”? Everybody with middle and high school kids knows that waiting until 8pm for dinner and then starting homework and whatever else is too late. If her kids are watching cable and getting manicures at the mall until 8pm, that’s actually a problem.

But hey, go ahead and denigrate the one person who seems concerned about it.

Op mentions that she comes home and cooks. If the kids and her husband to want to eat what she's making they go out to a restaurant.

I do not get the impression that Op is coming home, sitting down with the kids and helping them with homework. I don't believe that she has mentioned that she does help with schoolwork. Yet, the children's bad grades a worry to her.

These are MS/HS aged kids. Why not check their grades and assignments every day online. Then text them to remind them that they have a test to study for, a paper due, etc. When Op gets home she can quiz them on the test material, maybe look over a paper for grammatical errors.

Well she can’t cook and help with homework very well at the same time. She can tell them to start their homework, but that’s about it. Why isn’t this glaringly obvious? Then she finishes cooking and they finish eating, and it’s what, 9pm? And she’s exhausted, just like her spouse who’s apparently still on the couch. But maybe she does help a little with homework, until everybody goes to bed.

My DH is stay at home. What is his day like? I'm out the door as the kids (8 & 10) are getting up. He gets them ready for school, feeds them breakfast, gets them on the bus at 8:30. Then he has to clean up the breakfast dishes, do laundry, and clean up whatever mess the kids left behind. There's yard work - whether its mowing the lawn or blowing leaves. There's home improvement projects - the hot water heater he replaced two months ago. The carpet he replaced with hardwood floors a month ago. There's the ceiling fans he's installed in all the bedrooms.
There's grocery shopping and making dinner. Kids off the bus at 4:30. They read / do homework while he finishes preparing dinner. I'm home between 5 and 5:30, and almost always walk into a home with a home cooked meal waiting for me. At night, we are always running different directions with kids sports.
He's home with the kids when there's no school. Or when they're sick. He volunteers for coaching soccer and for cub scouts. He volunteers at school for various events.
Being a stay at home parent is not easy. I am grateful for my wonderful husband and all he does to keep our house a home and make our children happy.

There was a time he worked full time in a high stress job. I had the "easy" job and it meant all the housework and childcare fell on me. So, I was equivalent to the OPs husband. I was barely keeping it together and never had a moment to myself. But my husband was grateful, which kept me going each day to keep the house clean, make meals, read to the kids and played interactive games. It is exhausting. If there's no appreciation, I can see not doing it.

Anonymous wrote:why is this all his fault? they are 11 and 14, you played a big role in their behavior too

/working mom who also out-earns her husband

How hard is it for him to tell the kids to turn off the TV and start on their homework? That takes all of what, one minute. Why can’t he do that? Given the kids have bad grades, why doesn’t he want to spend that single minute?

/working mom who out-earned her husband but turned down promotions so she could be home by six

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I just picture this dad and the kids, kicked back and relaxing after a busy day at work, school, activities, errand running. Then the Ominous Black Cloud walks through the door threatening to rain all over them......

+1

That's what I thought.

I'm not the OP, but in her defense, there are certain objective things that make it clear that they aren't as busy as they should be at school. Like grades. I simply can't imagine treating my kids to things like manicures (!) when they don't even do their homework every day. If the grades were good and it was just OP's perception of a messy house, then I might be more inclined to lean the other way.

+1. If the grades are bad, then something needs to change. Calling OP Ominous Black Cloud is unhelpful and mean. Worse, it undermines her by making her the problem instead of the grades.

Op is walking into her house and wanting everything to be magically done already. When it isn't done already, she gets into a snit and her husband takes the kids out of the house and goes to dinner..probably to give her some space.

Ominous Black Cloud may sound mean but I will about bet you that that is the way her family feels when she walks through the door. Her husband has been tasked with everything from cleaning the house, to making sure his kids brush their teeth, to buying their clothes, to making sure their snacks aren't "junk".....and when that doesn't all get done to Op's standards, Op gets into a snit. And all that complaining that she does serves to undermine any authority her husband has over the kids - she pretty much diminishes him down to the level of errant child.

To fix this, Op is going to need to approach her husband as a grown up rather than an unruly subordinate.

Nope. OP wants some of these things to have been started, not necessarily finished. Where did OP say “finish”? Everybody with middle and high school kids knows that waiting until 8pm for dinner and then starting homework and whatever else is too late. If her kids are watching cable and getting manicures at the mall until 8pm, that’s actually a problem.

But hey, go ahead and denigrate the one person who seems concerned about it.

if OP were concerned she wouldn't be coming home at 8 pm night after night.

I agree she should adjust her schedule.

But now you’re setting up a Catch 22:
- if she’s concerned, she should change jobs so she can fix the problem herself, because it’s ok that DH is sitting on the couch watching cable with the kids and he shouldn’t have to change anything
- but if she’s concerned, that makes her an Ominous Black Cloud for the poor kids with bad grades and the poor DH who shouldn’t be expected to change

Way to make her the villain no matter she does. Mean.

I don't believe that she gets home at 8 pm every night and makes dinner. Then if they don't like it they go out to dinner, at what, 9 pm?

Also don't believe her husband is home by three unless he goes to work super early.

*do not want to eat what she's making

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I just picture this dad and the kids, kicked back and relaxing after a busy day at work, school, activities, errand running. Then the Ominous Black Cloud walks through the door threatening to rain all over them......

+1

That's what I thought.

I'm not the OP, but in her defense, there are certain objective things that make it clear that they aren't as busy as they should be at school. Like grades. I simply can't imagine treating my kids to things like manicures (!) when they don't even do their homework every day. If the grades were good and it was just OP's perception of a messy house, then I might be more inclined to lean the other way.

+1. If the grades are bad, then something needs to change. Calling OP Ominous Black Cloud is unhelpful and mean. Worse, it undermines her by making her the problem instead of the grades.

Op is walking into her house and wanting everything to be magically done already. When it isn't done already, she gets into a snit and her husband takes the kids out of the house and goes to dinner..probably to give her some space.

Ominous Black Cloud may sound mean but I will about bet you that that is the way her family feels when she walks through the door. Her husband has been tasked with everything from cleaning the house, to making sure his kids brush their teeth, to buying their clothes, to making sure their snacks aren't "junk".....and when that doesn't all get done to Op's standards, Op gets into a snit. And all that complaining that she does serves to undermine any authority her husband has over the kids - she pretty much diminishes him down to the level of errant child.

To fix this, Op is going to need to approach her husband as a grown up rather than an unruly subordinate.

Nope. OP wants some of these things to have been started, not necessarily finished. Where did OP say “finish”? Everybody with middle and high school kids knows that waiting until 8pm for dinner and then starting homework and whatever else is too late. If her kids are watching cable and getting manicures at the mall until 8pm, that’s actually a problem.

But hey, go ahead and denigrate the one person who seems concerned about it.

Op mentions that she comes home and cooks. If the kids and her husband to want to eat what she's making they go out to a restaurant.

I do not get the impression that Op is coming home, sitting down with the kids and helping them with homework. I don't believe that she has mentioned that she does help with schoolwork. Yet, the children's bad grades a worry to her.

These are MS/HS aged kids. Why not check their grades and assignments every day online. Then text them to remind them that they have a test to study for, a paper due, etc. When Op gets home she can quiz them on the test material, maybe look over a paper for grammatical errors.

why is this all his fault? they are 11 and 14, you played a big role in their behavior too

/working mom who also out-earns her husband

OP when you leave him, how do you think your kids will improve, given that they are a mess even WITH supervision?