Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In the case of UVa versus Columbia, I'd definitely pick UVa. It is just as good a school. Why pay more for the same quality?

Columbia is ranked #5, UVA #23.

Which means they are both great and you wouldn't go into significant debt for the difference.

Exactly.

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Anonymous wrote:I am really LOLing at all the VA boosters who think UVA is on par with Columbia.

Ask yourself this. If you had the money and the kid got into both schools, which would you recommend? Columbia is the kind of school that comes with a wealth of connections and opens doors to elite society in the Northeast.

UVA can't give you that except maybe in VA.

You have it backwards. People from elite backgrounds and a wealth of connections attend Columbia; they don't socialize with the kids on aid who have campus jobs and can't jet out to Killington every weekend or blow wads of money in NYC.

Well I disagree about but actually those weren't the connections I was referring to anyway. It's when you go to interview for an internship or entry level job and you get to talk to Columbia grads who would rather take a chance on you then on someone from another school. It's human nature.

You DO know that this same thing happens with grads from pretty much every school (when they encounter other alumni in the workforce), right? Obviously it's not in a similar realm academically, but my sister went to penn state and pretty much every career opportunity she's gotten there's been a penn state connection - penn state is a huge school with a proud, enthusiastic alumni base and they're kind of everywhere. Having that commonality is an easy discussion point. I'm not sure your argument makes any sense.

lol how many penn state grads are at The New Yorker? Maybe one? How many Columbia grads are at those kinds of magazines?

ok, so she gets that $35K/year job at The New Yorker, has a $1000 student loan payment to pay, NY rent to pay, etc. You don't see a problem with this?

Good point. Student loans actually need to be, you know, repaid. Exactly how is a student supposed to take a job in journalism, art, publishing, etc. in a high COL city if he or she has a high three or low four figure loan payment to make every month?

Think with your heads, people.

Think with yours. The OP said the PARENTS would be taking on the loans, not the student.

Well then the parents need to repay them. Will that hurt their ability to save for retirement? Will it mean retirement has to be delayed for a long time? My DH will be ready to retire when our youngest finishes college. Repaying loans does not work with that plan. Also, can they do the same for other kids in the family? Taking out exorbitant loans for one child's education and then not doing that for the rest of the kids is setting up for a lot of family problems.

We've told our kids we can cover the cost of in-state public universities. In reality, I'd probably be willing to stretch another $10K over that IF (big IF) a more expensive big brand name school would provide a real advantage for them pursuing a particular goal. But not $40K extra per year. This assume they have a particular passion that this one school can help them achieve. Otherwise, based on the many people I have worked with and been friends with over my life, I just don't see that the brand name schools offer some amazing advantage over state universities for undergrad. I do think it matters in a lot of fields for grad school so the calculus changes there, but, again, at that point the student should have a particular goal and know how that school will help them achieve it. I'm not going to delay our retirement for years just so my child can go to Columbia to explore and figure out her interests.

selfish

balanced

Many people (including me) believe we owe our kids a college education. Many such people (including me) also believe that "college education" does not mean, "the most expensive school DC can get into."

That's why you shoudl be saving ahead of time! The rule of thumb for middle class families is 1/3 savings, 1/3 cash flow, and 1/3 loans. Come on, anyone can do 1/3 savings for a 70k a year school. You have 18 years. You can't save up ~ 100k in that time?

How about let the kid go to UVA and help with the down payment? 100k+ in down payment can set them up nicely for life even in expensive areas. I do know 2 families who sent their kids to UMD (this was for engineering though) and later helped them with 150k in down payment, both kids have starter homes in McLean and work in Dulles tech corridor, these kids will be ready to move onto a "nicer" home in McLean in about 5yrs, it's not a bad life.

For further evidence you can look at the entering class at the Johns Hopkins School of Medicine.

I can't find a list of undergraduate schools but last year
for 120 spaces they took kids from 61 different colleges.

My husband went there and went to an out-of-area state school. He had classmates from everywhere--from University of Central who-knows-where to no-name christian colleges.

If you don't spend at least $50K/year on each child's education, you are a horrible, selfish, failure of a person and should publicly shamed and privately beaten with a wooden spoon by a pitiless nun.

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My husband has a graduate degree from Columbia. No, we would not pay those prices for undergrad. Would not be worth it.

Columbia might be a ticket-puncher in the Northeast, but out of the area, like we are now, it's just, "nice."

Absolutely. I thought Columbia was like Pepperdine. California here. We don't care about any big east names here, though.

Really? Take a look at the profiles of associates at the best venture capital firms or top law firms.

Exactly, look.

Done. Here's the undergraduate schools attended by every associate at Kirkland and Ellis DC:
Arizona State University (2)
Barnard College
Birmingham-Southern College
Boston University (2)
Brigham Young University (2)
Clemson University
College of William and Mary (3)
Columbia University
Cornell University (2)
Dartmouth College
Davidson College
Dickinson College
Duke University (3)
Emory University
Georgetown University (7)
George Washington University (7)
Gettysburg College
Harvard University (4)
Haverford College
Idaho State University
Johns Hopkins University
Louisiana State University
Loyola University of Chicago
Northwestern University
Ohio State University
Ohio Wesleyan University
Princeton University (2)
Stanford University (4)
UC-Berkeley
UC-Davis
UC-Irvine
UCLA (2)
University of Arizona
University of Central Florida
University of Chicago
University of Delaware
University of Illinois Urbana-Champaign
University of Michigan
University of Notre Dame
University of Pennsylvania (2)
University of South Carolina
University of Vermont
University of Virginia (3)
University of Washington
Vanderbilt University
Wake Forest University
Washington and Lee University
Yale University (5)

I love this list. It puts to rest so many college myths.

List proves nothing. The low tier colleges are probably all boomers and/or equal opportunity hires.

Wrong.

If parents go into debt for college, they are not doing their kids a favor, they are just delaying the cost that will eventually fall back on the kids when the parents don't have enough to care for themselves when elderly. You may end up being a financial burden on your kids when they are parents themselves, with medical and senior care costs that go on for years.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In the case of UVa versus Columbia, I'd definitely pick UVa. It is just as good a school. Why pay more for the same quality?

Columbia is ranked #5, UVA #23.

Which means they are both great and you wouldn't go into significant debt for the difference.

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My husband has a graduate degree from Columbia. No, we would not pay those prices for undergrad. Would not be worth it.

Columbia might be a ticket-puncher in the Northeast, but out of the area, like we are now, it's just, "nice."

Absolutely. I thought Columbia was like Pepperdine. California here. We don't care about any big east names here, though.

Really? Take a look at the profiles of associates at the best venture capital firms or top law firms.

Exactly, look.

Done. Here's the undergraduate schools attended by every associate at Kirkland and Ellis DC:
Arizona State University (2)
Barnard College
Birmingham-Southern College
Boston University (2)
Brigham Young University (2)
Clemson University
College of William and Mary (3)
Columbia University
Cornell University (2)
Dartmouth College
Davidson College
Dickinson College
Duke University (3)
Emory University
Georgetown University (7)
George Washington University (7)
Gettysburg College
Harvard University (4)
Haverford College
Idaho State University
Johns Hopkins University
Louisiana State University
Loyola University of Chicago
Northwestern University
Ohio State University
Ohio Wesleyan University
Princeton University (2)
Stanford University (4)
UC-Berkeley
UC-Davis
UC-Irvine
UCLA (2)
University of Arizona
University of Central Florida
University of Chicago
University of Delaware
University of Illinois Urbana-Champaign
University of Michigan
University of Notre Dame
University of Pennsylvania (2)
University of South Carolina
University of Vermont
University of Virginia (3)
University of Washington
Vanderbilt University
Wake Forest University
Washington and Lee University
Yale University (5)

I love this list. It puts to rest so many college myths.

List proves nothing. The low tier colleges are probably all boomers and/or equal opportunity hires.

huh? 80% of the list is "lower tier colleges"

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

My husband has a graduate degree from Columbia. No, we would not pay those prices for undergrad. Would not be worth it.

Columbia might be a ticket-puncher in the Northeast, but out of the area, like we are now, it's just, "nice."

Absolutely. I thought Columbia was like Pepperdine. California here. We don't care about any big east names here, though.

Really? Take a look at the profiles of associates at the best venture capital firms or top law firms.

Exactly, look.

Done. Here's the undergraduate schools attended by every associate at Kirkland and Ellis DC:
Arizona State University (2)
Barnard College
Birmingham-Southern College
Boston University (2)
Brigham Young University (2)
Clemson University
College of William and Mary (3)
Columbia University
Cornell University (2)
Dartmouth College
Davidson College
Dickinson College
Duke University (3)
Emory University
Georgetown University (7)
George Washington University (7)
Gettysburg College
Harvard University (4)
Haverford College
Idaho State University
Johns Hopkins University
Louisiana State University
Loyola University of Chicago
Northwestern University
Ohio State University
Ohio Wesleyan University
Princeton University (2)
Stanford University (4)
UC-Berkeley
UC-Davis
UC-Irvine
UCLA (2)
University of Arizona
University of Central Florida
University of Chicago
University of Delaware
University of Illinois Urbana-Champaign
University of Michigan
University of Notre Dame
University of Pennsylvania (2)
University of South Carolina
University of Vermont
University of Virginia (3)
University of Washington
Vanderbilt University
Wake Forest University
Washington and Lee University
Yale University (5)

I love this list. It puts to rest so many college myths.

List proves nothing. The low tier colleges are probably all boomers and/or equal opportunity hires.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Your undergrad is usually more reflective of your socioeconomic upbringing than your master's. Judging someone, who has a master's degree, on where they went to undergrad is pure classism.

+a million and this thread proves that. Columbia opens doors into the rich northeast culture that UVA doesn't??? yeah no shit

after all, DC is just a crappy mid-atlantic city for all the losers who don't have enough wealth for New York or LA. And they think they actually have culture? I mean, at least live in a Chicago if you have any decency at all.

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Think with yours. The OP said the PARENTS would be taking on the loans, not the student.

Well then the parents need to repay them. Will that hurt their ability to save for retirement? Will it mean retirement has to be delayed for a long time? My DH will be ready to retire when our youngest finishes college. Repaying loans does not work with that plan. Also, can they do the same for other kids in the family? Taking out exorbitant loans for one child's education and then not doing that for the rest of the kids is setting up for a lot of family problems.

We've told our kids we can cover the cost of in-state public universities. In reality, I'd probably be willing to stretch another $10K over that IF (big IF) a more expensive big brand name school would provide a real advantage for them pursuing a particular goal. But not $40K extra per year. This assume they have a particular passion that this one school can help them achieve. Otherwise, based on the many people I have worked with and been friends with over my life, I just don't see that the brand name schools offer some amazing advantage over state universities for undergrad. I do think it matters in a lot of fields for grad school so the calculus changes there, but, again, at that point the student should have a particular goal and know how that school will help them achieve it. I'm not going to delay our retirement for years just so my child can go to Columbia to explore and figure out her interests.

selfish

balanced

Many people (including me) believe we owe our kids a college education. Many such people (including me) also believe that "college education" does not mean, "the most expensive school DC can get into."

Agreed. How is it selfish to plan to pay $160K (!) for a child's education (perhaps x 2+ kids) but also want to stop working before your 70s. Even if you are a parent who thinks only the most expensive college your kid can get into will do, and you are willing to work until you die to make it happen, that is a big risk. My father wasn't eager to retire but got laid off in his mid-50s and never again worked at that professional level/income (senior management at a large manufacturing company). Age discrimination is real. They ended up living mainly on my mom's secretarial job. Thankfully, they'd paid in full for our state university educations so there were no loans to pay off, had a paid-off house, and good retirement fund. It gives me great comfort to see that they are doing well in retirement and will likely not need financial support from us kids. I'd hate to think that a selfish college choice by one (or more) of us kids had crippled them financially.

DH and I make a good income and will be able to pay for public colleges but we are also saving very aggressively for retirement because he's a 56 yr old IT worker who we know could be laid off at any time and could have a hard time finding a job that pays as well. I expect him to retire as soon as our youngest graduates from college. At that point we can both live fine on my income.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In the case of UVa versus Columbia, I'd definitely pick UVa. It is just as good a school. Why pay more for the same quality?

+1.

+2 I'm not even a fan of UVA but I can't think of any area in which Columbia is notably stronger.

Well its an Ivy league school and its in one of the most amazing cities in the world, whereas UVA is not ivy league and is in a Southern state of zero cultural interest

+2

This is the bottom line.

I'm really surprised anyone thinks UVA is on par with Columbia.

If you're so obsessed with New York culture might as well pay your kid $280k to go live in new york and make friends with all the people with $$. People saying they are not on par are not talking about the education and the professors and the classes and the programs. Which btw is supposed to be what you are paying for.

Anonymous wrote:Your undergrad is usually more reflective of your socioeconomic upbringing than your master's. Judging someone, who has a master's degree, on where they went to undergrad is pure classism.

+a million and this thread proves that. Columbia opens doors into the rich northeast culture that UVA doesn't??? yeah no shit

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am really LOLing at all the VA boosters who think UVA is on par with Columbia.

Ask yourself this. If you had the money and the kid got into both schools, which would you recommend? Columbia is the kind of school that comes with a wealth of connections and opens doors to elite society in the Northeast.

UVA can't give you that except maybe in VA.

You have it backwards. People from elite backgrounds and a wealth of connections attend Columbia; they don't socialize with the kids on aid who have campus jobs and can't jet out to Killington every weekend or blow wads of money in NYC.

Well I disagree about but actually those weren't the connections I was referring to anyway. It's when you go to interview for an internship or entry level job and you get to talk to Columbia grads who would rather take a chance on you then on someone from another school. It's human nature.

You DO know that this same thing happens with grads from pretty much every school (when they encounter other alumni in the workforce), right? Obviously it's not in a similar realm academically, but my sister went to penn state and pretty much every career opportunity she's gotten there's been a penn state connection - penn state is a huge school with a proud, enthusiastic alumni base and they're kind of everywhere. Having that commonality is an easy discussion point. I'm not sure your argument makes any sense.

lol how many penn state grads are at The New Yorker? Maybe one? How many Columbia grads are at those kinds of magazines?

ok, so she gets that $35K/year job at The New Yorker, has a $1000 student loan payment to pay, NY rent to pay, etc. You don't see a problem with this?

Good point. Student loans actually need to be, you know, repaid. Exactly how is a student supposed to take a job in journalism, art, publishing, etc. in a high COL city if he or she has a high three or low four figure loan payment to make every month?

Think with your heads, people.

Think with yours. The OP said the PARENTS would be taking on the loans, not the student.

Well then the parents need to repay them. Will that hurt their ability to save for retirement? Will it mean retirement has to be delayed for a long time? My DH will be ready to retire when our youngest finishes college. Repaying loans does not work with that plan. Also, can they do the same for other kids in the family? Taking out exorbitant loans for one child's education and then not doing that for the rest of the kids is setting up for a lot of family problems.

We've told our kids we can cover the cost of in-state public universities. In reality, I'd probably be willing to stretch another $10K over that IF (big IF) a more expensive big brand name school would provide a real advantage for them pursuing a particular goal. But not $40K extra per year. This assume they have a particular passion that this one school can help them achieve. Otherwise, based on the many people I have worked with and been friends with over my life, I just don't see that the brand name schools offer some amazing advantage over state universities for undergrad. I do think it matters in a lot of fields for grad school so the calculus changes there, but, again, at that point the student should have a particular goal and know how that school will help them achieve it. I'm not going to delay our retirement for years just so my child can go to Columbia to explore and figure out her interests.

selfish

balanced

Many people (including me) believe we owe our kids a college education. Many such people (including me) also believe that "college education" does not mean, "the most expensive school DC can get into."