The post at 11:41 on 5/24 was not me, though I generally agree with the sentiment that those who are bona fide middle class should be getting any and all FA that is currently going to upper class families.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Nah, you were hammering on me for daring to have a retirement account way before that partcular discussion started. I'll remind you: BUT WHAT ABOUT THE PEIPLE WHO DONT EVEN HAVE RETIREMENT ACCOUNTS????? You made no mention that was OK with you as long as we made under 100K – or perhaps you assume that the only people who make over 150K save for retirement?

Your point was unclear then and is unclear now.

This is exactly what I said: "What about families that don't even have jobs providing 401ks? Or don't have enough to full pay for private, let alone even think about setting money aside for retirement?" How is that "hammering"? You have to be awfully hyper-sensitive to think that those questions were a bludgeoning attack.

Do you agree or disagree with the statement that one's ability to save more effectively for retirement is positively correlated with a greater salary/income?

Yes. You said "what about families without 401ks" and I replied that "yes, families in a weaker financial position than we are should get MORE aid than we do" and you asked, patronizingly, if I understood that the money had to come from somewhere, and that money allocated to families in my position should be reduced and money allocated to those in a weaker position should be increased.

Do you disagree with my summary?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Well for example, my family works for international organizations, we speak 3 languages at home and I believe we would bring quite a bit of diversity. Our kids are still young, but when the time comes we will probably apply for FA. Our HHI is around 200-250 k. I am not sure we would get much (or anything at all). We are not below the 100k-150k threshold, but we still bring diversity on my opinion...

But the diversity that you offer has nothing to do with the fact that your HHI is in the low $200K range. Are you seriously claiming that those with lower HHIs cannot also provide the same kind of diversity that your family offers? If not, then what's your point? Because I'm saying that there are plenty of other families that offer the same kind of "international" diversity as yours, but also provide the additional diversity of a more financially modest background. These are the families that private schools should be targeting with FA. Not yours.

Plus it sounds like PP works for an international organization, but is American. I am not sure working for an international organization itself really adds much to the diversity, even if you are teaching your kids foreign languages.

Or even if the kids are speaking those languages as natives.

You can't swing a cat in DC without hitting a family like this. Ho-hum.

Diversity my ass.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Well for example, my family works for international organizations, we speak 3 languages at home and I believe we would bring quite a bit of diversity. Our kids are still young, but when the time comes we will probably apply for FA. Our HHI is around 200-250 k. I am not sure we would get much (or anything at all). We are not below the 100k-150k threshold, but we still bring diversity on my opinion...

But the diversity that you offer has nothing to do with the fact that your HHI is in the low $200K range. Are you seriously claiming that those with lower HHIs cannot also provide the same kind of diversity that your family offers? If not, then what's your point? Because I'm saying that there are plenty of other families that offer the same kind of "international" diversity as yours, but also provide the additional diversity of a more financially modest background. These are the families that private schools should be targeting with FA. Not yours.

Plus it sounds like PP works for an international organization, but is American. I am not sure working for an international organization itself really adds much to the diversity, even if you are teaching your kids foreign languages.

Anonymous wrote:Nah, you were hammering on me for daring to have a retirement account way before that partcular discussion started. I'll remind you: BUT WHAT ABOUT THE PEIPLE WHO DONT EVEN HAVE RETIREMENT ACCOUNTS????? You made no mention that was OK with you as long as we made under 100K – or perhaps you assume that the only people who make over 150K save for retirement?

Your point was unclear then and is unclear now.

This is exactly what I said: "What about families that don't even have jobs providing 401ks? Or don't have enough to full pay for private, let alone even think about setting money aside for retirement?" How is that "hammering"? You have to be awfully hyper-sensitive to think that those questions were a bludgeoning attack.

Do you agree or disagree with the statement that one's ability to save more effectively for retirement is positively correlated with a greater salary/income?

Anonymous wrote:Well for example, my family works for international organizations, we speak 3 languages at home and I believe we would bring quite a bit of diversity. Our kids are still young, but when the time comes we will probably apply for FA. Our HHI is around 200-250 k. I am not sure we would get much (or anything at all). We are not below the 100k-150k threshold, but we still bring diversity on my opinion...

But the diversity that you offer has nothing to do with the fact that your HHI is in the low $200K range. Are you seriously claiming that those with lower HHIs cannot also provide the same kind of diversity that your family offers? If not, then what's your point? Because I'm saying that there are plenty of other families that offer the same kind of "international" diversity as yours, but also provide the additional diversity of a more financially modest background. These are the families that private schools should be targeting with FA. Not yours.

Anonymous wrote:I'm amazed that your definition of diversity is "poor people." Since when does diversity mean a sprinkling of poor people? Give me a break. Poor people rarely have any interest in sending their kids to a $40K school.

It's not my definition. I was simply responding to PP's preposterous claim that giving FA to top 10 to 20 percent families somehow helps make private schools more diverse, because otherwise, if you don't, private schools will be full of really rich and really poor students and that's just terrible.

And stop it with this notion that those making between $75K and $105K are "poor people."

Finally, who made you the spokesperson for poor people? How do you know they don't have any interest in sending their kids to private schools, whether ones that cost $40K or much less? In some ways it's quite condescending to assume that poor families wouldn't want the benefits of a private school education, especially if schools made legitimate efforts to accommodate their financial circumstances.

I'm amazed that your definition of diversity is "poor people." Since when does diversity mean a sprinkling of poor people? Give me a break. Poor people rarely have any interest in sending their kids to a $40K school. My parents were poor (HHI less than $50K) and the last thing on the their mind was sending me to an elite school to be viewed as rich white people's charity case. Rest assured you are clues about what poor Minorities and poor White's want.

Upper middle class are much more interested in these schools and grateful for the FA. At HHI of $225K we get 60% FA and are appreciative and grateful. Imagine that paying almost $20K is no way feat. Yeah we could have chosen a cheaper parochial school but why when for a few extra grand we can send DC to an elite school with grater resources that consitently places kids at a HYPS school?

That's a no brainer decision and those of us who made that decision could care less how others feel about it. Make no mistake, I see you. The real issue is that you would prefer our kids have state school college options and the HUPS be reserved for those of you struggling to be full pay. Yeah OK, whatever. Miss me with that elitist foolishness.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You can't possibly think that a family with two kids and HHI of 150 can afford 80k in tuition. They will never be able to afford it in DC. With no financial aid, they will not attend private school... I am not sure it's fair and I am not sure it makes for a diverse student body.

Please tell me how students from a family in the top 20 percent income-wise, makes the student body that's already full of upper-class families more "diverse."

If you or the schools are genuinely interested in more socioeconomic diversity, you'd be showing more interest in giving more financial aid such that those families that are legitimately middle-class -- let's say the middle 30 to 40 percent of HHIs -- could attend. That would actually make the student body more diverse.

Well for example, my family works for international organizations, we speak 3 languages at home and I believe we would bring quite a bit of diversity. Our kids are still young, but when the time comes we will probably apply for FA. Our HHI is around 200-250 k. I am not sure we would get much (or anything at all). We are not below the 100k-150k threshold, but we still bring diversity on my opinion...

Anonymous wrote:We make $350k and have applied for financial aid every year. This was the first year we got it. If you want it, I don't see what is wrong with applying. All they can do is say no.

we make $500k and get FA too...suckers!

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Ah. So now I really have no idea what your point is with regard to me, my family, our retirement accounts and our FA. We make wayyyyy less than $150k. So... yay? You approve I guess?

The discussion today all started because I took issue with this comment from another PP: "Most people that may be able to afford tuition, but only without saving anything or moving to a worst neighnorhood (most people that make between $150-200k) would likely end up not choosing the school. So the school gives incentives (FA) to retain some... it makes for a better school."

What baffled me was this notion that having more families making $150K to $200K -- upper class in the DC area by any objective measure -- would somehow make the student body any more diverse.

As I just mentioned before, real diversity would be to give families like yours (if you do in fact make "wayyyyy less than $150k") enough FA to attend private. Not the fake diversity of more top 10 to 20 percent families.

Nah, you were hammering on me for daring to have a retirement account way before that partcular discussion started. I'll remind you: BUT WHAT ABOUT THE PEIPLE WHO DONT EVEN HAVE RETIREMENT ACCOUNTS????? You made no mention that was OK with you as long as we made under 100K – or perhaps you assume that the only people who make over 150K save for retirement?

Your point was unclear then and is unclear now.

We make $350k and have applied for financial aid every year. This was the first year we got it. If you want it, I don't see what is wrong with applying. All they can do is say no.

Anonymous wrote:Ah. So now I really have no idea what your point is with regard to me, my family, our retirement accounts and our FA. We make wayyyyy less than $150k. So... yay? You approve I guess?

The discussion today all started because I took issue with this comment from another PP: "Most people that may be able to afford tuition, but only without saving anything or moving to a worst neighnorhood (most people that make between $150-200k) would likely end up not choosing the school. So the school gives incentives (FA) to retain some... it makes for a better school."

What baffled me was this notion that having more families making $150K to $200K -- upper class in the DC area by any objective measure -- would somehow make the student body any more diverse.

As I just mentioned before, real diversity would be to give families like yours (if you do in fact make "wayyyyy less than $150k") enough FA to attend private. Not the fake diversity of more top 10 to 20 percent families.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You know nothing about what goes in to these fairly nuanced decisions. Waving your arms and yelling that more should go to the "really poor" shows that.

Clearly, you haven't been paying attention to what I've said. Please stop with the "more FA to the really poor" straw man.

My point has consistently been that the top 10 to 20 percenters making $150K to $210K (who myopically see themselves as middle class) should not be getting FA, which should instead be going in much greater numbers to those making half as much (i.e., the real middle class). And to the extent that you or anyone else in the Fake Middle Class thinks families making $75K to $105K are "really poor," that's quite revealing about your sense of entitlement and cluelessness about what it actually means to be "poor."

You can't possibly think that a family with two kids and HHI of 150 can afford 80k in tuition. They will never be able to afford it in DC. With no financial aid, they will not attend private school... I am not sure it's fair and I am not sure it makes for a diverse student body.

No of course they can't. But neither can anyone making less than $150, and there are a whole heck of a lot more of them and they need it more .

Anonymous wrote:You can't possibly think that a family with two kids and HHI of 150 can afford 80k in tuition. They will never be able to afford it in DC. With no financial aid, they will not attend private school... I am not sure it's fair and I am not sure it makes for a diverse student body.

Please tell me how students from a family in the top 20 percent income-wise, makes the student body that's already full of upper-class families more "diverse."

If you or the schools are genuinely interested in more socioeconomic diversity, you'd be showing more interest in giving more financial aid such that those families that are legitimately middle-class -- let's say the middle 30 to 40 percent of HHIs -- could attend. That would actually make the student body more diverse.