Test scores at most IB schools remain lower because they're located in lower-income areas with more apartment complexes and poorer housing stock. The installation of AP or IB in the HS is never going to substantially change that issue. People who want out of a given pyramid badly enough will still find a way to transfer (foreign language, for instance). Sure there are some who actually prefer a certain program, but it's crazy to assume transfers from schools like Annandale to Woodson are all about the desire for AP.

Please put some data in to support your simplistic assertions... all IB schools are 'weaker'? What metric are you using to determine that? It is incorrect to say "ostensibly" - that was the stated reason. The level of reasoning and the communication of facts on this blog are nothing short of pathetic... Where did you go to school - not FCPS... Would your teachers or parents have accepted papers loaded with specious assertions, tendentious arguments, and no originally sourced facts?

Now, how about developing a sound, factual case for getting rid of IB? Address the case that IB corresponds directly with FCPS' Portrait of a Graduate: "In 2014, FCPS adopted the Portrait of a Graduate to answer this question: What are the skills necessary for success for all children in this rapidly changing, increasingly diverse, and interconnected world? Portrait of a Graduate moves FCPS students and staff members to look beyond the high-stakes testing environment and to help our students develop skills so they can be successful in the workforce of the future." (source here: https://www.fcps.edu/about-fcps/portrait-graduate)

IB Diploma program costs $3.3M or approximately $1,000 per pupil. Those students who don't go to IB will presumably go to AP at a cost of $250 per pupil (on average) - so the real (net) savings of closing IB are $2.5M.

Look for the FY17 Program Budget here: https://www.fcps.edu/about-fcps/budget/budget-documents You can see the cost of each and every Program at FCPS along with the costs of Division wide services.

“What is written without effort is in general read without pleasure.”
? Samuel Johnson

Anonymous wrote:With the exception of Marshall and Robinson, IB programs are clustered at high schools with the highest FARMS rates. It's ridiculous to suggest that parents are transferring their kids from these schools because they believe AP is inherently superior. The AP/IB issue just gives them a convenient excuse to choose a school with higher test scores.

That still begs the question as to why the IB schools remain weaker, decades after IB was put in place, ostensibly to attract higher SES students.

But, if you believe students merely pupil place to attend schools with higher test scores (an assertion belied by the posters who say they pupil placed their students from Madison to Marshall, despite the latter's lower SAT scores, US News ratings, etc.), FCPS should still get rid of the IB program at multiple IB schools, which would limit out-bound pupil placements and shore up those schools.

With the exception of Marshall and Robinson, IB programs are clustered at high schools with the highest FARMS rates. It's ridiculous to suggest that parents are transferring their kids from these schools because they believe AP is inherently superior. The AP/IB issue just gives them a convenient excuse to choose a school with higher test scores.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:From what I hear, it's pretty easy to transfer between Marshall and Madison by stating preference for either IB or AP.

This.

Re: The posts above about high schools being closed to transfers: When DC wanted a different HS (zoned for Madison, wanted Marshall for IB), we were told not to let a "closed to transfers" listing on the FCPS "dashboard" web page deter us; the word was that for most academic program transfers, there is room. Friends whose kid transferred to Madison for AP were told the same thing. Everybody ended up where they wanted to be. If you're going by the "closed" sign on that dashboard page, don't. Contact the HS you DC wants to attend and ask directly. The dashboard page is not always reflective of enrollment on the day you check it. So it's better to ask. It seems the schools try hard to accommodate HS academic transfers. If someone above has had an academic transfer form returned as rejected and was told that a school is truly shut to every transfer, academic or not, tell us about it here because I haven't yet heard of it happening, and would be concerned if it were.

Yep. Our experience as well.

Anonymous wrote:My son is awaiting the TJ decision. We live in Marshall district ad were told if he doesn't get into TJ and he wants to do AP, he needs to go to Falls Church because Madison and McLean are closed to transfers.

So, while I love the IB diploma program,for a child who wants AP it isn't as simple as going to the closest AP school. You need a school that has room....

Who told you this? 10:01 seems to be implying your kid can still go to Madison or McLean if TJ is no longer on the table.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Real Data - from Budget Questions http://www.boarddocs.com/vsba/fairfax/Board.nsf/goto?#

73 CD# ES-06 Question # 29
FY 2018
Response to Questions of the FY 2018 Budget
School Board Member Requesting Information: Elizabeth Schultz
Answer Prepared By: Sloan J. Presidio
Date Prepared: March 9, 2017
Question:
How much does FCPS pay for the IB registration fee per student on top of the IB exam fee per student?
Response:
Full IB Diploma candidates pay a one-time registration fee of $168 that covers exams taken during students’ junior and senior year.
IB Course students (anyone not pursing the full IB Diploma) pay a registration fee of $168 for each year of exams (junior and/or senior year).
For FY 2017, FCPS paid 3,266 registration fees at $168 each for a total of $548,688 in registration fees.

FY 2018
Response to Questions of the FY 2018 Budget
School Board Member Requesting Information: Tom Wilson
Answer Prepared By: Jane Lipp
Date Prepared: March 9, 2017
Question:
How often do students pupil place into IB and AP schools for those programs?
Response:
In FY 2016, a total of 1,018 student transfers were approved enabling students to participate in an Advanced Placement (AP) or International Baccalaureate (IB) program at a non-base school. There were 474 transfers approved for AP students and 544 transfers approved for IB students.

Interesting how requests for IB outweigh those for AP given the multitudes here that insist AP is superior...

So, on average, 59 kids were transferring out of each of the 8 IB schools for AP compared to 32 kids transferring out of each of the 17 AP schools for IB, even though the AP schools are more likely to be closed to transfers and the IB schools tend to have lower enrollments.

Anonymous wrote:From what I hear, it's pretty easy to transfer between Marshall and Madison by stating preference for either IB or AP.

This.

Re: The posts above about high schools being closed to transfers: When DC wanted a different HS (zoned for Madison, wanted Marshall for IB), we were told not to let a "closed to transfers" listing on the FCPS "dashboard" web page deter us; the word was that for most academic program transfers, there is room. Friends whose kid transferred to Madison for AP were told the same thing. Everybody ended up where they wanted to be. If you're going by the "closed" sign on that dashboard page, don't. Contact the HS you DC wants to attend and ask directly. The dashboard page is not always reflective of enrollment on the day you check it. So it's better to ask. It seems the schools try hard to accommodate HS academic transfers. If someone above has had an academic transfer form returned as rejected and was told that a school is truly shut to every transfer, academic or not, tell us about it here because I haven't yet heard of it happening, and would be concerned if it were.

Anonymous wrote:So, transfer to schools that are open to transfers. Falls Church HS has openings. Go there.

OP should just buy in the Madison district. Problem solved.

So, transfer to schools that are open to transfers. Falls Church HS has openings. Go there.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Real Data - from Budget Questions http://www.boarddocs.com/vsba/fairfax/Board.nsf/goto?#

73 CD# ES-06 Question # 29
FY 2018
Response to Questions of the FY 2018 Budget
School Board Member Requesting Information: Elizabeth Schultz
Answer Prepared By: Sloan J. Presidio
Date Prepared: March 9, 2017
Question:
How much does FCPS pay for the IB registration fee per student on top of the IB exam fee per student?
Response:
Full IB Diploma candidates pay a one-time registration fee of $168 that covers exams taken during students’ junior and senior year.
IB Course students (anyone not pursing the full IB Diploma) pay a registration fee of $168 for each year of exams (junior and/or senior year).
For FY 2017, FCPS paid 3,266 registration fees at $168 each for a total of $548,688 in registration fees.

FY 2018
Response to Questions of the FY 2018 Budget
School Board Member Requesting Information: Tom Wilson
Answer Prepared By: Jane Lipp
Date Prepared: March 9, 2017
Question:
How often do students pupil place into IB and AP schools for those programs?
Response:
In FY 2016, a total of 1,018 student transfers were approved enabling students to participate in an Advanced Placement (AP) or International Baccalaureate (IB) program at a non-base school. There were 474 transfers approved for AP students and 544 transfers approved for IB students.

Interesting how requests for IB outweigh those for AP given the multitudes here that insist AP is superior...

Hard to transfer to schools that are closed for transfers.

Anonymous wrote:Real Data - from Budget Questions http://www.boarddocs.com/vsba/fairfax/Board.nsf/goto?#

73 CD# ES-06 Question # 29
FY 2018
Response to Questions of the FY 2018 Budget
School Board Member Requesting Information: Elizabeth Schultz
Answer Prepared By: Sloan J. Presidio
Date Prepared: March 9, 2017
Question:
How much does FCPS pay for the IB registration fee per student on top of the IB exam fee per student?
Response:
Full IB Diploma candidates pay a one-time registration fee of $168 that covers exams taken during students’ junior and senior year.
IB Course students (anyone not pursing the full IB Diploma) pay a registration fee of $168 for each year of exams (junior and/or senior year).
For FY 2017, FCPS paid 3,266 registration fees at $168 each for a total of $548,688 in registration fees.

FY 2018
Response to Questions of the FY 2018 Budget
School Board Member Requesting Information: Tom Wilson
Answer Prepared By: Jane Lipp
Date Prepared: March 9, 2017
Question:
How often do students pupil place into IB and AP schools for those programs?
Response:
In FY 2016, a total of 1,018 student transfers were approved enabling students to participate in an Advanced Placement (AP) or International Baccalaureate (IB) program at a non-base school. There were 474 transfers approved for AP students and 544 transfers approved for IB students.

Interesting how requests for IB outweigh those for AP given the multitudes here that insist AP is superior...

Anonymous wrote:My son is awaiting the TJ decision. We live in Marshall district ad were told if he doesn't get into TJ and he wants to do AP, he needs to go to Falls Church because Madison and McLean are closed to transfers.

So, while I love the IB diploma program,for a child who wants AP it isn't as simple as going to the closest AP school. You need a school that has room....

The irony is that the one high school in that area that is under-enrolled is Langley.

Anonymous wrote:In reality, OP could easily buy a house in the Marshall district and pupil place to Madison if she decides she doesn't want IB. The reverse is also true. I wouldn't make this debate a deciding factor.

we made it a deciding factor. There were houses we liked but if they were in IB zones it was a deal-breaker. It frustrated my realtor a bit until I explained why the program wasn't what we wanted and we would have to provide transportation to an AP school if we opted out of the IB school. There are nicer, newer houses in Marshall's zone, but we crossed those off.

My son is awaiting the TJ decision. We live in Marshall district ad were told if he doesn't get into TJ and he wants to do AP, he needs to go to Falls Church because Madison and McLean are closed to transfers.

So, while I love the IB diploma program,for a child who wants AP it isn't as simple as going to the closest AP school. You need a school that has room....