Anonymous
Post 09/11/2016 09:49     Subject: Brown $68K vs. UMich (in-state) $28K
PP who is a Michigan resident again. UM is HUGE, gigantic HUGE. It is vastly different than Brown in terms of size. If the in-staters who get in, something like 40% enroll which means 60% got better deals elsewhere or just plain could not afford it.

Don't get me wrong. A UM degree never hurt anyone's resume, if you get into an Ivy or Stanford, you have to go because those are winning the lottery. UM really excels at the graduate level where departments like psychology rank with Stanford and Berkeley.
Anonymous
Post 09/11/2016 09:41     Subject: Brown $68K vs. UMich (in-state) $28K
Anonymous wrote:Wow -- an extra $160K for college to prevent your kid from always wondering about Brown. Priceless. I guess, on this logic, if the kid doesn't get into Brown then she'll resent it for the rest of her life, but at least she won't blame her parents.

What other preferences (in the tens of the thousands of dollars range) must we all honor to stave off filial resentment? I guess for parents that don't have the $$, it's just inevitable.

Seriously, if she enjoys herself in college, she won't look back, filled with resentment, regardless of where she ended up. If she excels at UM, she'll have access to the same careers and grad schools she would have had if she'd graduated from Brown. If she doesn't excel at UM, it's unlikely she would have excelled at Brown (which, in and of itself, is not a golden ticket anywhere).


Whenever I see posts like this, I wonder if the poster has ever met anyone with an Ivy League degree. It is so much easier.
Anonymous
Post 09/11/2016 08:52     Subject: Brown $68K vs. UMich (in-state) $28K
Wow -- an extra $160K for college to prevent your kid from always wondering about Brown. Priceless. I guess, on this logic, if the kid doesn't get into Brown then she'll resent it for the rest of her life, but at least she won't blame her parents.

What other preferences (in the tens of the thousands of dollars range) must we all honor to stave off filial resentment? I guess for parents that don't have the $$, it's just inevitable.

Seriously, if she enjoys herself in college, she won't look back, filled with resentment, regardless of where she ended up. If she excels at UM, she'll have access to the same careers and grad schools she would have had if she'd graduated from Brown. If she doesn't excel at UM, it's unlikely she would have excelled at Brown (which, in and of itself, is not a golden ticket anywhere).
Anonymous
Post 09/10/2016 20:45     Subject: Brown $68K vs. UMich (in-state) $28K
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:

[b]Don't listen to people who say that only where you go to grad school matters.


This poster is spot on! The only people that say that it doesn't matter where you go for undergrad are the ones who went to lower ranked schools.


I'd say 4 out of 5 colleagues with high-status degrees are doing everything they can to prepare their kids for their elite alma mater (or a peer college). Those that aren't haven't raised their kids the right way, so they already know they don't have a shot, so declaring they don't care about the "rat race" is just saving face. One example is my boss: He and his wife are too busy with work and travel to sink time into micro-managing their kids. His obnoxious slacker daughter is headed to GW (a school anyone with $ can attend).


This has been my experience as well - in the workplace as well as at a Big 3. Parents doing *everything* they can to help their child to get into an elite school. OP, your child has voiced his/her preference. If your child ends up going to UM, s/he will always wonder about Brown, which may turn into resentment later. I doubt that the reverse would be true.
Anonymous
Post 09/10/2016 18:12     Subject: Brown $68K vs. UMich (in-state) $28K
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:

[b]Don't listen to people who say that only where you go to grad school matters.


This poster is spot on! The only people that say that it doesn't matter where you go for undergrad are the ones who went to lower ranked schools.


I'd say 4 out of 5 colleagues with high-status degrees are doing everything they can to prepare their kids for their elite alma mater (or a peer college). Those that aren't haven't raised their kids the right way, so they already know they don't have a shot, so declaring they don't care about the "rat race" is just saving face. One example is my boss: He and his wife are too busy with work and travel to sink time into micro-managing their kids. His obnoxious slacker daughter is headed to GW (a school anyone with $ can attend).


if she's hot, she'll be fine in life.
Anonymous
Post 09/10/2016 16:56     Subject: Brown $68K vs. UMich (in-state) $28K
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Michigan was named the top public university in the country. Go to Michigan and use the $ for grad school. http://www.upi.com/Top_News/US/2016/09/06/University-of-Michigan-ranks-as-best-US-public-college-in-worldwide-list/6841473181887/


That has far more to do with it's grad programs and research -- very little to do with undergrad, which is a zoo.


As a Michigan resident I can safely say undergraduate U of M is a meat grinder.
Anonymous
Post 09/10/2016 16:51     Subject: Brown $68K vs. UMich (in-state) $28K
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I believe Brown is worth more than $160k more than Mich over the lifetime of your kid who will have a much better chance of getting a higher paying job and better prep for grad school than at Mich.


I tend to agree.


Unless you're Larry Page, of course.


He's an outlier.
Anonymous
Post 09/10/2016 15:19     Subject: Brown $68K vs. UMich (in-state) $28K
Anonymous wrote:Dept. of Education's College Scorecard, Notre Dame vs UMich:

ACT score: 32-34 vs 28-32
Graduation rate: 95% vs 90%
ND salary after 10 years: $69,400 vs $57,900
% applying to US Medical School: 14% vs 11%

source: https://collegescorecard.ed.gov/


Yes, but pretty much every state university (except naybe Berkley) is going to have lower numbers that any good (not ecen elite) private because, unlike the privates, state universities typically have policies that give reserve spots/guarantee admission to the top kids at every public high school in the state -- including schools that are very low performing. This drags the average test scores for admitted students down significantly. Many of these students drop out of rail out after the first semester or year, which affects the graduation rate. If you were to look just at the kids who are still there sophmore year or who ultimately graduate, the average test scores, etc would be much higher.

As for the average salary for grads & the percentage who apply to medical school, of course ND's numbers are higher. The student body is, on average, much wealthier than U of M's, which means they are more likely to be able to afford med school or other types of grad school which, in turn, bumps up salaries. But if you took the same kid from the same family & sent him to ND instead of Michigan, it' highly doubtful that he would end up at a better medical school or earning a higher salary.
Anonymous
Post 09/10/2016 15:02     Subject: Brown $68K vs. UMich (in-state) $28K
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:

[b]Don't listen to people who say that only where you go to grad school matters.


This poster is spot on! The only people that say that it doesn't matter where you go for undergrad are the ones who went to lower ranked schools.


I'd say 4 out of 5 colleagues with high-status degrees are doing everything they can to prepare their kids for their elite alma mater (or a peer college). Those that aren't haven't raised their kids the right way, so they already know they don't have a shot, so declaring they don't care about the "rat race" is just saving face. One example is my boss: He and his wife are too busy with work and travel to sink time into micro-managing their kids. His obnoxious slacker daughter is headed to GW (a school anyone with $ can attend).
Anonymous
Post 09/10/2016 14:41     Subject: Brown $68K vs. UMich (in-state) $28K
Michigan grads seem to do well.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_University_of_Michigan_alumni

Anonymous
Post 09/10/2016 14:24     Subject: Brown $68K vs. UMich (in-state) $28K
Anonymous wrote:First off, correct your daughter's stinking thinking that college at Mich would be a repeat of high school. It would not and you should now better. Does the university resemble her high school? Secondly, has she articulated ANY solid reasons why Brown is an appropriate choice? I didn't hear any, but might have missed it. At that price, there needs to be a clear set of reasons to choose it, persuasive. Next, get to the library and check out some books. Get some published advisors to read. Lastly, say she goes to Brown, and you sink $600,000 by the end, 1) will there be job prospects (look it up)? 2) will there be other children expecting the same? 3) can you afford it? Maybe so, but by the time you spend 1.8 million for 3 kids, you could have opened a good business. Just a thought.


$600k? If OPs DD is on the 8 year plan she's probably not brown or umich material.
Anonymous
Post 09/10/2016 13:57     Subject: Brown $68K vs. UMich (in-state) $28K
Anonymous wrote:This is a weird question for me, since the two school are so different. Michigan is YUGE whereas Brown is a smaller New England school. A person who will fit in at Brown will find a place at Michigan but the reverse might not be true. The most important decision is where your child will fit in and Thrive. That might make a difference or maybe your child would thrive at both. Only you know that but visit both campuses to be sure and let them spend time there.

Assuming your child is fully happy at both, I unequivocally recommend Brown. Michigan is a great school and a student can get a great education there, but it's not Brown. Many student at Ivy schools are forced above their level because of the small class size and the need to compete. Michigan is huge, which means that it's easy to find a group that doesn't challenge you and makes it easier to skate by. That's death if you're paying $28,000 a year.

[b]Don't listen to people who say that only where you go to grad school matters. A huge part of where students get in to grad school is where they went to undergrad (and where their grad school admission committee went to undergrad). Brown will get a lot less scrutiny than Michigan and that's just how it is. Just like UVA gets more scrutiny than Dartmouth even though both are great schools. A 3.5 from Brown might also carry more weight than a 3.8 from Michigan for these same reasons.[/b]

In the end, both are great schools and if your child chooses what's best, then they'll do well. If they're indifferent then I would recommend Brown for the additional opportunities it provides and the doors it might not close. But the most important criteria is that your child graduate as a happy and enthusiastic person.


This poster is spot on! The only people that say that it doesn't matter where you go for undergrad are the ones who went to lower ranked schools.
Anonymous
Post 09/10/2016 12:26     Subject: Brown $68K vs. UMich (in-state) $28K
According to Parchment, head to head: 0 out of 15 who got into both Brown and UMich chose UMich.

source: http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2014/09/04/upshot/college-picks.html
Anonymous
Post 09/10/2016 12:21     Subject: Brown $68K vs. UMich (in-state) $28K
Dept. of Education's College Scorecard, Notre Dame vs UMich:

ACT score: 32-34 vs 28-32
Graduation rate: 95% vs 90%
ND salary after 10 years: $69,400 vs $57,900
% applying to US Medical School: 14% vs 11%

source: https://collegescorecard.ed.gov/
Anonymous
Post 09/10/2016 09:32     Subject: Brown $68K vs. UMich (in-state) $28K
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:The girls and boys she meets at Brown at 10x the peers she will meet at UMich. That's worth the $160K alone.

Out of state students go to UMich because they were rejected from all the Ivies - notably Cornell and Penn. Just a fact.


Either there's one crazy person in this thread, or there's a whole contingent of folks who went to Brown just to find a husband.

I know where NOT to send my son


I'm the 'crazy' PP. The OP mentioned her daughter was only interested in Brown and Michigan. The things I said also go for the 20 or so colleges that are superior to Michigan: Ivy League, Stanford, Northwestern, UChicago, Georgetown, Hopkins, MIT, Duke, Notre Dame, Tufts, Vanderbilt, the elite LACs.


In what world is Notre Dame superior to the University of Michigan???


Acceptance rate, prestige, private, post grad success, salary.


I have met a lot more smart michigan grads than ND grads. I don't think ND has higher preftige than michigan at all. neither do I think it has better post grad success or salary.

ND's acceptance rate is lower because it's smaller.

No way ND is superior to Michigan.

All the otheres in the pp's list - probably. But not ND.

Department by department - compare, I can't think of a single department where ND's stronger than michigan.