Anonymous wrote:I just don't understand the tired excuse. Your tired because of a lot duties but they still get done but somehow that duty gets pushed to the side because somehow that's the least important issue.

Resentment. When my husband forces me by default to earn 50% of the money and do 90% of the chores, I am tired AND resentful. Capiche?

Anonymous wrote:I need to put this in every post on this topic:
"If wifey is tasked with all the kid care crap that husband doesn't even notice/care about, there go her energy points for the things he does (like dressing sexy and getting her fuck on). "

My husband was very jealous of the baby during the first few months. He absolutely refused to try to understand that my hormones were really driving the train. Whatever I did to reach out to him was never good enough, there was always something more I should have done, he wouldn't meet me halfway. He absolutely set it up as him v. the baby. Then he would complain that I was always busy with the baby, while leaving absolutely all the logistical work of child care to me. If there was baby stuff out, it was somehow my job to clean it up. I did everything to find a daycare, get the baby ready for daycare, to make sure that we had diapers and wipes and any necessary supplies, to keep the diaper bag stocked, to buy all her clothes, to make her medical appointments and attend them, to take time off when she was sick, to get everything together when we were going out as a family. So, yeah, I was busy with the baby. He wasn't stepping up, although he had plenty of time to complain that I wasn't pulling my weight around the house. (Buying groceries didn't count. Cooking meals didn't count.) And I was supposed to be initiating all the sex. I tried to talk to him about how I was nervous about sex because I was afraid it would hurt--no sympathy. He never initiated sex, often turned me down when I tried to initiate, and then complained that we weren't having sex. And somehow it was my job to fix that. He wanted tons of affirmation that I thought he was good-looking and sexy, while, at best, telling me I looked nice when I was dressed for work sometimes. Oh, and criticizing my haircut.

He's not a bad guy--he's responsible, smart, generally considerate, and does spend time with and take care of our kid. But he's so emotionally needy, it's like I have two kids in that sense.

Maybe I was too wrapped up in the baby, although I feel like that's a normal reaction. But it's like he's just going to punish me for it for the rest of our marriage. Since nothing I do is ever good enough, why bother?

I just don't understand the tired excuse. Your tired because of a lot duties but they still get done but somehow that duty gets pushed to the side because somehow that's the least important issue.

I need to put this in every post on this topic:
"If wifey is tasked with all the kid care crap that husband doesn't even notice/care about, there go her energy points for the things he does (like dressing sexy and getting her fuck on). "

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Anonymous wrote:Agree with the OP's premise and many of the other people who posted in here. Now that I'm in my mid 30s, I'm seeing a lot of single female friends "settle" for the most convenient guy so they can get to the kids stage of life.

And yes, parenting seems have morphed into this all encompassing affair where the parents neglect the marriage in order to focus intensely on the child. People seem to have a much harder time of letting go here. I work with a lot of Europeans and their mindset about family life seems to be much more balanced - the spouse will ALWAYS be more important than the child.

I am a DW. If my DH wants to be put first then he needs to put me first ... by not dumping all the work on me.

OMG YES. EXACTLY.

I'm the bachelor PP. Here's the thing, and I'm not saying my experience speaks for everyone. But, I would ask the DWs to truly look back at whether husband was really excited about "all the work" stuff. Or, did you push for things to change? In my own experience, I watched past partners (women) simply want to take on more responsibilities than I did. I was content and consistent about who I was and what I wanted from day one. There was another thread on DCUM a few months back where the OP (a DW) was saying women take on more "emotional labor" then men. But, the men in the thread pointed out they didn't care about choosing throw pillows, how perfect the house looked, what color to paint the unfinished office and when to do it, etc. etc. Men are simple creatures and we rarely change from what we want from day 1.

Listen, Bucko. I am a DW and I couldn't give a fuck about throw pillows. You are pretty daft if you think the emotional labor in a marriage with children is about paint and throw pillows. Please, please, please remain single. It is best for everyone. You need to just have new relationship after new relationship. You are not built for the day to day of a real marriage. You are too immature. Unfortunately, so are most men. We need to change the way we raise you people.

Why is your way better? You fancy "more responsibilities" superior? You haven't provided normative, let alone empirical evidence, justifying such a claim. If I could find a woman who would love to build a life together, travel together, save for retirement together, pursue our collective and individual passions together who wouldn't feel the need to turn into Mrs. Doubtfire, I'd be game. I'm super loyal, I'm just not interested in committing into a relationship that involves becoming responsible for 1,000 things that have nothing to do with the person herself.

Do you have a lot of money? If not, whom do you expect to do the cleaning, lawn work, laundry, cooking, grocery shopping and bill paying? Or are all those chores optional, in your mind? PS - of the listed items, I the DW do all of them except the lawn care, which we hire out.

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Anonymous wrote:OP - in a woman with a child - elementary school - and I AGREE with you. I consider myself to be well rounded and well read - I work and I contribute to the household. However I have seen that I've alway put my DD first and sometimes forget about my husbands needs. I think as a couple you have to still out each other first. DH needs to fulfill my needs and I his - life shouldn't revolve around our child only. I realized I was doing this and have tried to make a change. I think too many women do this - out their husbands second and make it all about the kids. We need to stop and think and realize that we have a partnership (this goes for men too).

+1
DW here with 3 kids between 3-10 and working full time. No nanny so still do lots of house work. DH is very involved with the kids but I do most of the house work. I can confirm it is very hard to balance kids and romance/DH. For many years after giving birth, I loathed sex and I think he was so sad and even complained. I think for most men sex is everything. After reading a lot of threads to what extend men really wanted/value sex and for fear of him cheating, I started having more of it FOR HIM. I even pretended I was in, but wasn't there, I did for him, with no expectations (I had literally given up on us ever connecting). He could not connect with me emotionally to the level I desired and could not could not understand my emotional need which meant everything to me. On top of doing it for him, I also deliberately worked on my attitude, complained less and just did what I could. Surprisingly he is so much happier and started taking more interest in me and my emotional vacuum. I have also started liking the sex much more and our relationship has become much better. I think lack of sex was killing him and I am glad I started just by doing it for him.

DW, you are inspiring. I'm a bachelor that's terrified of marriage because of the scenario you describe here. Unfortunately, I don't think most DWs are this self-aware and willing to do such a 180.

If you are a bachelor forming impressions about "DWs" as a group, you probably shouldn't get married.

I am a 33 year old man who has always envisioned himself getting married. However, as I've watched my friends marriages evolve I hear from my guy friends about the ways their DWs change, esp. as it relates to interest in sex. It almost always goes down and stays much lower. Why would anyone want any part of that?

Because when you are 45, 30 year olds won't want to fuck you and when you are 55 you won't give a shit about sex anyway if you can even still get it up. If you want kids, you do it. If not, you are alone for the last 40 years of your life while your friends are building their families/communities. Women go through intense physiological changes during pregnancy, breastfeeding, and postpartum. Add years of resentment because men still don't do even 1/4 of the household/childcare shit and you have a recipe for disaster.

I don't have the answer, but I think they seriously need to develop the female viagra. NOW.

I still have a good robust sex drive as a 51 year old female. Unfortunately for him, it's not at all directed at my husband.

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Agree with the OP's premise and many of the other people who posted in here. Now that I'm in my mid 30s, I'm seeing a lot of single female friends "settle" for the most convenient guy so they can get to the kids stage of life.

And yes, parenting seems have morphed into this all encompassing affair where the parents neglect the marriage in order to focus intensely on the child. People seem to have a much harder time of letting go here. I work with a lot of Europeans and their mindset about family life seems to be much more balanced - the spouse will ALWAYS be more important than the child.

I am a DW. If my DH wants to be put first then he needs to put me first ... by not dumping all the work on me.

OMG YES. EXACTLY.

I'm the bachelor PP. Here's the thing, and I'm not saying my experience speaks for everyone. But, I would ask the DWs to truly look back at whether husband was really excited about "all the work" stuff. Or, did you push for things to change? In my own experience, I watched past partners (women) simply want to take on more responsibilities than I did. I was content and consistent about who I was and what I wanted from day one. There was another thread on DCUM a few months back where the OP (a DW) was saying women take on more "emotional labor" then men. But, the men in the thread pointed out they didn't care about choosing throw pillows, how perfect the house looked, what color to paint the unfinished office and when to do it, etc. etc. Men are simple creatures and we rarely change from what we want from day 1.

You can't keep the division of labor once the kids come along. And throw pillows are one thing, but just because a man doesn't care if the house is show ready doesn't mean there isn't constant basic cleaning to be done.

Anonymous wrote:Worst are the men who think women are a hole in the mattress who are suppose to supply them with endless sex. Their main reason for marriage then fail to help equally with the kids, and home. Many men pull that scam.

Marriage is about honor wife and husband. Both have to do there part sex for men and help for women are included and love for one another should go beyond what isn't doing and focus on what they are doing well and how help each other with what there not. Kids isn't always included in the union. every house needs to have individual relationship within the house not always combine things.

Honestly, OP? By the time we have kids we're tired of fucking you.

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Anonymous wrote:I don't have an answer for you but I agree with you. (I'm a woman, FWIW, no kids, don't want them.) It just so often seems like a woman wants to get married now because she's madly in love with her husband, but because the husband is a means to an end (children). Then the children come and the husband is secondary, always. I don't get it. Your spouse is supposed to be your number one teammate and life partner. And don't you want your kids to have a marriage to someone they are madly in love with? Don't you want to set an example of what true love looks like? I'm with you OP.

You don't have kids, you are not qualified to comment on this thread.

Meh, you don't need to have kids to recognize an extremely common dynamic. I see so many of my girlfriends ignore their marriages for the kids and then wonder why their marriages fall apart. It's like they've bought into this silly notion that unless they sacrifice their own happiness on every level they aren't good mothers. The ones who prioritize their marriages are happy, have calmer children, and enjoy family life. Same for the dads. Kids need the stability of knowing their parents put each other first. I'm qualified to say this because I saw it with my own parents. They loved us to death but put each other first. I had a tremendously secure and happy childhood.

And now you're an insufferable twat. Good to know!

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't have an answer for you but I agree with you. (I'm a woman, FWIW, no kids, don't want them.) It just so often seems like a woman wants to get married now because she's madly in love with her husband, but because the husband is a means to an end (children). Then the children come and the husband is secondary, always. I don't get it. Your spouse is supposed to be your number one teammate and life partner. And don't you want your kids to have a marriage to someone they are madly in love with? Don't you want to set an example of what true love looks like? I'm with you OP.

You don't have kids, you are not qualified to comment on this thread.

Meh, you don't need to have kids to recognize an extremely common dynamic. I see so many of my girlfriends ignore their marriages for the kids and then wonder why their marriages fall apart. It's like they've bought into this silly notion that unless they sacrifice their own happiness on every level they aren't good mothers. The ones who prioritize their marriages are happy, have calmer children, and enjoy family life. Same for the dads. Kids need the stability of knowing their parents put each other first. I'm qualified to say this because I saw it with my own parents. They loved us to death but put each other first. I had a tremendously secure and happy childhood.

And now you're an insufferable twat. Good to know!

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't have an answer for you but I agree with you. (I'm a woman, FWIW, no kids, don't want them.) It just so often seems like a woman wants to get married now because she's madly in love with her husband, but because the husband is a means to an end (children). Then the children come and the husband is secondary, always. I don't get it. Your spouse is supposed to be your number one teammate and life partner. And don't you want your kids to have a marriage to someone they are madly in love with? Don't you want to set an example of what true love looks like? I'm with you OP.

You don't have kids, you are not qualified to comment on this thread.

Meh, you don't need to have kids to recognize an extremely common dynamic. I see so many of my girlfriends ignore their marriages for the kids and then wonder why their marriages fall apart. It's like they've bought into this silly notion that unless they sacrifice their own happiness on every level they aren't good mothers. The ones who prioritize their marriages are happy, have calmer children, and enjoy family life. Same for the dads. Kids need the stability of knowing their parents put each other first. I'm qualified to say this because I saw it with my own parents. They loved us to death but put each other first. I had a tremendously secure and happy childhood.

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We have only the word of the DH. He could very well be one of those assholes ...

You mean like every other person that starts a posting on this site about his or (mostly) her spouse being in league with Satan? You always have only their word.

This is my point! The people who respond go on these grand tirades against the DW or the OP as though they have all the facts and they actually know something. Annoying.

Anonymous wrote:OP - in a woman with a child - elementary school - and I AGREE with you. I consider myself to be well rounded and well read - I work and I contribute to the household. However I have seen that I've alway put my DD first and sometimes forget about my husbands needs. I think as a couple you have to still out each other first. DH needs to fulfill my needs and I his - life shouldn't revolve around our child only. I realized I was doing this and have tried to make a change. I think too many women do this - out their husbands second and make it all about the kids. We need to stop and think and realize that we have a partnership (this goes for men too).

Also agree with OP. A number of my female friends/relatives became extremely boring and tediously child focused when they had kids. Ugh.

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Anonymous wrote:Women love their children more then their husbands. Don't think that's odd, it just is. Men probably do too. However - - children need a happy home with parents who love each other. Women do the most harm to their children when they push away the children's father.

I like how this is automatically on the woman. Like men don't do a total 180 after a few years of marriage and come on to their wives by making some crass joke or just cold going in for the kill at the worst possible moment. Sets the wife up to disappoint her husband. Husbands who also once had conversations about life aspirations and plans with their wives suddenly find these things to be too stressful so conversations are then relegated to nothing. Husbands who have been grown for 20 years, whose wives work full-time suddenly can't figure out how to feed a toddler with a stocked kitchen and need explicit direction despite their wife not giving a shit what the child eats as long as it's not sour patch kids and coffee.

+1. I could make a loooong list of all the things my husband did when we were dating just because he was hoping to get laid. (Occasionally go out with my friends, take me to dinner, go to a show, laugh at my jokes). He doesn't bother with any of that now and just expects to get laid if he comes up behind me in the kitchen and humps me while I'm trying to get breakfast for the kids. And then he complains about my lack of sex drive.