Anonymous
Post 05/24/2016 02:18     Subject: Asian-American Groups Accuse Brown, Dartmouth, and Yale of Bias in Admissions
Anonymous wrote:

It's violin or private lessons for piano. Asian children learn piano too. Don't forget piano.


well- my dd asked to play the violin or piano b/c its the only instruments she's heard of- my nephew played trumpet and switched to bass and is in band. we are Asian. Most kids start off on piano and violin-

I remember quite clearly being told by my 7th grade history teacher that Asian tiger economies weren't a threat and we were lucky to be in school in america ( most of the class was irish catholic- private school) b/c asian kids have no leadership skills and aren't creative. Thats pretty devastating at that age. And college admissions people and art directer sand film producers believe it.
I'm so sick of hearing this BS about asians not being creative or leaders- yeah studio ghibli is white, there are no thriving film industries in Asia, no pop music,, Thakoon is just some random white guy with a funny name- he's not Thai at all, Jhumpa Lahiri is not asian obviously,Freddy Mercury was horrifically generic , Ismail Merchant was a slave to tradition as he produced lovely ground breaking films whilst being an Indian Muslim gay man married to James Ivory oh and lets not forget Kazuo Ishiguro- what a violin obsessed robot. All these stereotypes are RACIST- Asian Americans are VERY aware of these racist tendencies and push their kids towards STEM because there is a perception that these fields are more merit based. There are tons of Indian Americans at DOJ and very few as partners in private law firms not b/c they can't hack it but b/c they figure law partners are more racist than the DOJ. Racism by whites is why Asian Americans make these choices. And now White ppl are freaking out because we are sick of it- so we go to medical school and write new york times best sellers anyway (RIP Paul Kalinithi)- we want to be in front of the camera, writing the books, creating the sculptures and we can just as much as anyone else and that has whites pissed off- they don't want us to compete against them in 'their' area of expertise: The HUMANITIES b/c that would mean admitting non westerners are just as HUMAN. Has anyone noticed that Jazz which is just as technically complex and sophisticated as Mozart or Bach is not recognized as equally as prestigious- AA amazing contributions to culture are dismissed as 'popular' and not taken as seriously. So don't use that as an example.


Wow. Ramble incoherantly much? Stream of consciousness writing/ranting are not your friends.

Since this comment is one long rant, I picked a random spot to start my response: most people consider American jazz to be a very well respected art form. My DC plays an instrument in his MS jazz band-- an extracurricular available at many schools in this area and devoted to promoting exposure to and enjoyment of jazz. At DC's 1/2 Asian school, only a very small number of the jazz band students are Asian (maybe 10% or less). In fact--since you love jazz so much, PP, you might want to check out the Westfield HS jazzfest this Friday evening. It's an event that brings together the many MS and HS jazz bands in the area.

But I have no idea what this has to do with Asian college admission. :?:
Anonymous
Post 05/23/2016 21:54     Subject: Asian-American Groups Accuse Brown, Dartmouth, and Yale of Bias in Admissions
Wow, I'm lost on that last comment.
Anonymous
Post 05/23/2016 20:51     Subject: Asian-American Groups Accuse Brown, Dartmouth, and Yale of Bias in Admissions


It's violin or private lessons for piano. Asian children learn piano too. Don't forget piano.


well- my dd asked to play the violin or piano b/c its the only instruments she's heard of- my nephew played trumpet and switched to bass and is in band. we are Asian. Most kids start off on piano and violin-

I remember quite clearly being told by my 7th grade history teacher that Asian tiger economies weren't a threat and we were lucky to be in school in america ( most of the class was irish catholic- private school) b/c asian kids have no leadership skills and aren't creative. Thats pretty devastating at that age. And college admissions people and art directer sand film producers believe it.
I'm so sick of hearing this BS about asians not being creative or leaders- yeah studio ghibli is white, there are no thriving film industries in Asia, no pop music,, Thakoon is just some random white guy with a funny name- he's not Thai at all, Jhumpa Lahiri is not asian obviously,Freddy Mercury was horrifically generic , Ismail Merchant was a slave to tradition as he produced lovely ground breaking films whilst being an Indian Muslim gay man married to James Ivory oh and lets not forget Kazuo Ishiguro- what a violin obsessed robot. All these stereotypes are RACIST- Asian Americans are VERY aware of these racist tendencies and push their kids towards STEM because there is a perception that these fields are more merit based. There are tons of Indian Americans at DOJ and very few as partners in private law firms not b/c they can't hack it but b/c they figure law partners are more racist than the DOJ. Racism by whites is why Asian Americans make these choices. And now White ppl are freaking out because we are sick of it- so we go to medical school and write new york times best sellers anyway (RIP Paul Kalinithi)- we want to be in front of the camera, writing the books, creating the sculptures and we can just as much as anyone else and that has whites pissed off- they don't want us to compete against them in 'their' area of expertise: The HUMANITIES b/c that would mean admitting non westerners are just as HUMAN. Has anyone noticed that Jazz which is just as technically complex and sophisticated as Mozart or Bach is not recognized as equally as prestigious- AA amazing contributions to culture are dismissed as 'popular' and not taken as seriously. So don't use that as an example.
Anonymous
Post 05/23/2016 18:04     Subject: Asian-American Groups Accuse Brown, Dartmouth, and Yale of Bias in Admissions
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:If it is OK to limit the number of qualified Asian Americans into elite universities using holistic admissions, then why wasn't it ok years ago when Harvard went this route to limit the number of Jews? Why do we look back on that time and shake our heads, and we all agree it was terrible for Harvard to do this, but then think it's fine today to do this very same thing to a different group of people?


Sorry. The situation faced by Jews was not the same thing as what Asians face today. So tired of this lazy analogy.


Provide arguments supporting your claim, lazy PP.

I am neither Jewish nor Asian, but I work in higher ed and this analogy makes A LOT of sense, for the reasons previous PP shared.


NP. I'll speak for myself. Because, in the old days, the antisemitism was explicit and a lot harsher than anything Asians face on campus today. No doubt that Asians had a tough road at colleges back in the day, though, what with internment camps and all.


Not sure what that has to do with the discussion at hand, but perhaps you need to learn a bit of history anyway. In the US, Jewish people have never been interned into camps. Japanese Americans have.

And the Vietnamese were napalmed by us.

Anyway, let's talk college, shall we.
Anonymous
Post 05/23/2016 17:56     Subject: Asian-American Groups Accuse Brown, Dartmouth, and Yale of Bias in Admissions
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:If it is OK to limit the number of qualified Asian Americans into elite universities using holistic admissions, then why wasn't it ok years ago when Harvard went this route to limit the number of Jews? Why do we look back on that time and shake our heads, and we all agree it was terrible for Harvard to do this, but then think it's fine today to do this very same thing to a different group of people?


Sorry. The situation faced by Jews was not the same thing as what Asians face today. So tired of this lazy analogy.


Provide arguments supporting your claim, lazy PP.

I am neither Jewish nor Asian, but I work in higher ed and this analogy makes A LOT of sense, for the reasons previous PP shared.


NP. I'll speak for myself. Because, in the old days, the antisemitism was explicit and a lot harsher than anything Asians face on campus today. No doubt that Asians had a tough road at colleges back in the day, though, what with internment camps and all.
Anonymous
Post 05/23/2016 17:52     Subject: Asian-American Groups Accuse Brown, Dartmouth, and Yale of Bias in Admissions
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Again, merit does not equal test scores. Their are many ways to judge this.

Yes, now it means "holistic". Back then, it meant "we don't want too many Jews".


+1. It is a very close analogy.
Anonymous
Post 05/23/2016 17:46     Subject: Asian-American Groups Accuse Brown, Dartmouth, and Yale of Bias in Admissions
Anonymous wrote:Again, merit does not equal test scores. Their are many ways to judge this.

Yes, now it means "holistic". Back then, it meant "we don't want too many Jews".
Anonymous
Post 05/23/2016 17:32     Subject: Asian-American Groups Accuse Brown, Dartmouth, and Yale of Bias in Admissions
Again, merit does not equal test scores. Their are many ways to judge this.
Anonymous
Post 05/23/2016 14:17     Subject: Asian-American Groups Accuse Brown, Dartmouth, and Yale of Bias in Admissions
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:If it is OK to limit the number of qualified Asian Americans into elite universities using holistic admissions, then why wasn't it ok years ago when Harvard went this route to limit the number of Jews? Why do we look back on that time and shake our heads, and we all agree it was terrible for Harvard to do this, but then think it's fine today to do this very same thing to a different group of people?


Sorry. The situation faced by Jews was not the same thing as what Asians face today. So tired of this lazy analogy.

How is it not the same thing?

Harvard put the "holistic" admission in place because they found that there were too many Jews getting in. You think because Asian Americans don't *seem* to face any prejudice that they are not being discriminated against?

Hate to burst your bubble, but Asian Americans are still discriminated against, albeit much more subtly, which is way more insidious. The stereotypes on this forum alone is indicative of it.

I posted up thread about the what happened to the Jews in Harvard back then.. I'll re-post for your benefit:
-------
"Jews at Harvard tripled to 21% of the freshman class in 1922 from about 7% in 1900. Ivy League Jews won a disproportionate share of academic prizes and election to Phi Beta Kappa but were widely regarded as competitive, eager to excel academically and less interested in extra-curricular activities such as organized sports. Non-Jews accused them of being clannish, socially unskilled and either unwilling or unable to“fit in.”

--sounds exactly like how some describe Asian American students.

continuing....

"In 1922, Harvard's president, A. Lawrence Lowell, proposed a quota on the number of Jews gaining admission to the university. Lowell was convinced that Harvard could only survive if the majority of its students came from old American stock.

Lowell argued that cutting the number of Jews at Harvard to a maximum of 15% would be good for the Jews, because limits would prevent further anti-Semitism. Lowell reasoned, “The anti-Semitic feeling among the students is increasing, and it grows in proportion to the increase in the number of Jews. If their number should become 40% of the student body, the race feeling would become intense.”"

-- again, sound exactly like what's happening to Asian American students.

"In the late 1930s, James Bryant Conant, Lowell's successor as president, eased the geographic distribution requirements, and Jewish students were once again admitted primarily on the basis of merit."

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/anti-semitism/harvard.html
Anonymous
Post 05/23/2016 14:06     Subject: Asian-American Groups Accuse Brown, Dartmouth, and Yale of Bias in Admissions
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:If it is OK to limit the number of qualified Asian Americans into elite universities using holistic admissions, then why wasn't it ok years ago when Harvard went this route to limit the number of Jews? Why do we look back on that time and shake our heads, and we all agree it was terrible for Harvard to do this, but then think it's fine today to do this very same thing to a different group of people?


Sorry. The situation faced by Jews was not the same thing as what Asians face today. So tired of this lazy analogy.


Provide arguments supporting your claim, lazy PP.

I am neither Jewish nor Asian, but I work in higher ed and this analogy makes A LOT of sense, for the reasons previous PP shared.
Anonymous
Post 05/23/2016 14:03     Subject: Asian-American Groups Accuse Brown, Dartmouth, and Yale of Bias in Admissions
Anonymous wrote:If it is OK to limit the number of qualified Asian Americans into elite universities using holistic admissions, then why wasn't it ok years ago when Harvard went this route to limit the number of Jews? Why do we look back on that time and shake our heads, and we all agree it was terrible for Harvard to do this, but then think it's fine today to do this very same thing to a different group of people?


Sorry. The situation faced by Jews was not the same thing as what Asians face today. So tired of this lazy analogy.
Anonymous
Post 05/23/2016 13:04     Subject: Asian-American Groups Accuse Brown, Dartmouth, and Yale of Bias in Admissions
Look, some of what you are saying does not make sense to me. The topic is this lawsuit and Asian Americans in Ivy league schools. These schools are free admit whom they will. No matter how angry this makes people, its a fact.

The commenters are speaking about differentiation. If a admissions officers sees several children with roughly the same grades/test scores from the same school with roughly the same academic and extra curricular activities, they will likely not all get in, regardless of their racial/ethnic background.

This level of competitiveness is unlikely to change. It is about adjusting to this new world. Litigation will only get you so far. With a 5 percent acceptance rates, colleges can justify any legal policy. This is the same world that faces all groups. Continuing to stick with the position that the highest test scores should win has not carried the day. The new world is where everyone has difficulties getting into elites. Everyone with a college age child should look beyond to top few schools when applying to find a school that they like. Instead of focusing exclusively on Ivys and being devastated when they don't work out.

Anonymous
Post 05/23/2016 11:27     Subject: Asian-American Groups Accuse Brown, Dartmouth, and Yale of Bias in Admissions
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:]I posted earlier and I wasn't suggesting that Asians were not creative, etc. My point is that they SOMETIMES have the same interests, same majors, etc. Differentiation is key for all races.


This. I just went to a middle school band and string concert. 90% of the violin players are Asian. Less than 50% of the other strings players are Asian. 10% of the band students are Asian (and they all play the flute). Why strings vs band (and especially violin)? And why only the flute? No idea. To me, playing a musical instrument is important, but I let my kids choose which one. I've never seen that a violin has more intrinsic value than a cello or a clarinet. But for some reason that is how the Asian kids in DC's school tracks. And since this school feeds TJ, believe that 80% of the Asian kids are developing a deep passion for STEM. Also, fine, but colleges need literature majors too. I have no problem with colleges having lots of qualified Asian students. I do have a problem if 80% of the student body consists of violin playing STEM students-- especially if those students have no real passion for STEM or the violin. Asian cultures often value homogeny. American colleges place an emphasis on diverse backgrounds and experiences. An Asian parent who wants to send a kid to Yale might do well to let their child pursue genuine interests, especially if they are unique and different.

I went to a hockey and lax game, and there were so many white kids... more than 90%. Why lax and hockey? I've never seen that lax/hockey has more intrinsic value than football or basketball. Fine if they have a deep passion for lax/hockey, but colleges want white kids who have deep passion for other sports, too, and not just the "white man's" sport, or how about a white kid who plays violin?

American white culture values guns over safety of our kids. Notice how members of the NRA are mostly white.

See how I spun that around?
Anonymous
Post 05/23/2016 11:20     Subject: Re:Asian-American Groups Accuse Brown, Dartmouth, and Yale of Bias in Admissions
Anonymous wrote:I'm white and I saw this this morning

http://www.vox.com/2016/5/22/11704756/affirmative-action-merit

Really opened my eyes on some stuff

Still think holistic admissions is the way to go


White person here who is totally in favor of holistic admissions, no matter who the "competition" is. But then, I don't see college admissions as a zero-sum game. There are plenty of seats to go around.
Anonymous
Post 05/23/2016 11:17     Subject: Asian-American Groups Accuse Brown, Dartmouth, and Yale of Bias in Admissions
Anonymous wrote:The list of organizations organizations is a joke. It doesn't include any of the major Asian American organizations - Japanese American Citizens League, Organization of Chinese Americans, Korean American Coalition, National Asian Pacific American Bar Association, U.S. Pan Asian American Chamber of Commerce, Asian Pacific American Chamber of Commerce (APACC),
Asian American Legal Defense & Education Fund (AALDEF), Asian American Journalists Association (AAJA), etc.

This was cooked up and funded by an organized WHITE anti-affirmative action folks using Asian-Americans as cover. I love that the first complainant is "Custom Mansions Owner Association of Diamond Bar." HAHAHAHA


+1 I hope this comes back to bite white people in the ass. Honestly look at Cal. White people bitch that it is too Asian and they can't get in. Have fun at Ole Miss and Alabama.