A lot of the extra work teachers say they do sounds low level and that is probably why the barrier to entry and the pay is low. Making copies? Buying supplies? Someone said they spent 3 weeks I. August setting up their room. Grading papers takes 1 minute per student according to one poster.
There is no higher level higher paid job that expects people to do that. Seems like a lot of organizational and time management things that they do, aka busy work, that could be handled by someone without a degree and free up teachers to teach.

If we assume the best and the brightest are not becoming teachers (generally, although there will always be exceptions), we will never improve public schools until and unless the qualification and compensation for teacher is increased. All the standardized testing and tinkering with curriculum will have minimal effect if at all.

I don't think we need linked studies and evidence to show that the best and brightest are not becoming teachers, as a general rule.
That's not to degrade teachers, but it is not a high barrier to entry field requiring high scores in traditional areas. Nothing wrong with that, it just is what it is.

Teacher Training Is A Ridiculously Easy Way To Ace College, Report Says

"The NCTQ report quantifies how easy it is for teacher preparation students compared with those other fields of study."

"The report also found that assignments in teacher preparation classes that were the basis of 71 percent of course grades were "criterion-deficient," asking for opinions or viewpoints rather than facts. It recommends common "standards to define excellence" and the assignment of objective measures."

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/11/12/teacher-preparation-nctq_n_6142634.html

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You are quoting from study.com and degreequery.com.

The 2 quotes/links provide the basis for the statement: "I think most elementary/middle school teachers were education majors whether (math education, English education, primary education, special education, ESOL, physical education etc.)."

OK, they constitute evidence, I guess. They don't constitute good evidence, though.

Anonymous wrote:You are quoting from study.com and degreequery.com.

The 2 quotes/links provide the basis for the statement: "I think most elementary/middle school teachers were education majors whether (math education, English education, primary education, special education, ESOL, physical education etc.)."

You are quoting from study.com and degreequery.com.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Maybe so, but great majority of elementary/middle school teachers (aside from career switchers) majored in education. There may be some specialized programs out there but I think most elementary/middle school teachers were education majors whether (math education, English education, primary education, special education, ESOL, physical education etc.).

You think so? Based on what evidence?

"In every state, elementary school teachers are required to obtain at least a bachelor’s degree in education. The most common degree for elementary school teachers is the bachelor in elementary education. Some teachers also graduate with a degree specializing in the area they wish to teach, and some states require a double major in education and a specialty area. This is not always a requirement, but a teacher with a specialized degree can be a more attractive candidate for some job positions. Once a teacher is hired to a position, some employers require the teacher to pursue a Master’s degree.

For secondary education teachers wishing to work in a middle school or high school setting, a bachelor’s degree in secondary education is key. A minor or additional degree in a specialty area is a requirement for secondary school educators in many school districts. Like teachers in an elementary school setting, many secondary school educators are also required to eventually pursue a master’s degree."

http://www.degreequery.com/what-degree-do-you-need-to-be-a-teacher/


What Aspiring Teachers Can Major In

Early Childhood Education
A major in early childhood education suits students intending to teach pre-kindergarten to third grade. This major teaches them to serve as a role model as well as an educator, since such teachers often play a vital role in the early development of children.

Elementary Education
Individuals interested in teaching at the elementary level, which typically includes kindergarten through eighth grade, can major in elementary education. At this stage, education majors can specialize in a specific subject, including English, math, history or science.

Secondary Education
Aspiring teachers who want to work with older students specialize in secondary education, which can encompass between sixth and twelfth grade. They can also choose a specific liberal arts field to concentrate in, such as English literature, calculus, American history or physics.

http://study.com/articles/What_Do_You_Have_to_Major_in_to_Become_a_Teacher.html

Anonymous wrote:

Maybe so, but great majority of elementary/middle school teachers (aside from career switchers) majored in education. There may be some specialized programs out there but I think most elementary/middle school teachers were education majors whether (math education, English education, primary education, special education, ESOL, physical education etc.).

You think so? Based on what evidence?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The ranking of different majors by SAT scores (total, reading, math, writing).

Education is pretty much in the last place right above various vocational trades and technicians.

http://www.businessinsider.com/heres-the-average-sat-score-for-every-college-major-2014-10

This would be meaningful if

1. the only way (or even the primary way) to become a teacher was to major in education as an undergraduate -- but it isn't
2. SAT scores had any relationship to any real-life factor, let alone teaching ability -- but they don't

We are discussing mostly education majors and not career switchers. Career switchers tend to be former attorneys, former scientists, former mathematicians etc. etc. The point was raised that it was relatively easier to become a teacher (major in education) compared to other majors meaning they had lower HS gpa, lower sat scores, reputation of college doesn't really matter, college gpa is lower etc.

There was no assertion that sat/gpa had any relationship to teaching ability. One can have low gpa/low sat scores and be a good teacher or vice versa. The point was that students with lower gpa, lower sat tended to major in education.

You do not have to major in education as an undergraduate in order to become a teacher. And I am not talking about career switchers. In fact, many colleges/universities do not even offer a major in education. If you want to become a teacher, you major in a field and also do teacher education. See this program at Towson University for secondary education, for example: http://www.towson.edu/coe/sced/undergrad/secondary.asp

Maybe so, but great majority of elementary/middle school teachers (aside from career switchers) majored in education. There may be some specialized programs out there but I think most elementary/middle school teachers were education majors whether (math education, English education, primary education, special education, ESOL, physical education etc.).

Anonymous wrote:Hopefully this is a troll post. Lots of things that fall under teachers job responsibilities are not always visible to parents. There are offsite meetings, training, planning, grading, prep and attendance for 504 meetings, IEP meetings, endless rounds of emails, phone calls to and from parents. These are just a few items. Please don't cast judgment because the school parking lot isn't filled hours before the first bell.

OP, this is your answer.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The ranking of different majors by SAT scores (total, reading, math, writing).

Education is pretty much in the last place right above various vocational trades and technicians.

http://www.businessinsider.com/heres-the-average-sat-score-for-every-college-major-2014-10

This would be meaningful if

1. the only way (or even the primary way) to become a teacher was to major in education as an undergraduate -- but it isn't
2. SAT scores had any relationship to any real-life factor, let alone teaching ability -- but they don't

We are discussing mostly education majors and not career switchers. Career switchers tend to be former attorneys, former scientists, former mathematicians etc. etc. The point was raised that it was relatively easier to become a teacher (major in education) compared to other majors meaning they had lower HS gpa, lower sat scores, reputation of college doesn't really matter, college gpa is lower etc.

There was no assertion that sat/gpa had any relationship to teaching ability. One can have low gpa/low sat scores and be a good teacher or vice versa. The point was that students with lower gpa, lower sat tended to major in education.

You do not have to major in education as an undergraduate in order to become a teacher. And I am not talking about career switchers. In fact, many colleges/universities do not even offer a major in education. If you want to become a teacher, you major in a field and also do teacher education. See this program at Towson University for secondary education, for example: http://www.towson.edu/coe/sced/undergrad/secondary.asp

In VA, most universities and colleges do not have undergraduate education majors. Teachers must major in a content area, then get a masters in education. It is a 5-year program.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The ranking of different majors by SAT scores (total, reading, math, writing).

Education is pretty much in the last place right above various vocational trades and technicians.

http://www.businessinsider.com/heres-the-average-sat-score-for-every-college-major-2014-10

This would be meaningful if

1. the only way (or even the primary way) to become a teacher was to major in education as an undergraduate -- but it isn't
2. SAT scores had any relationship to any real-life factor, let alone teaching ability -- but they don't

We are discussing mostly education majors and not career switchers. Career switchers tend to be former attorneys, former scientists, former mathematicians etc. etc. The point was raised that it was relatively easier to become a teacher (major in education) compared to other majors meaning they had lower HS gpa, lower sat scores, reputation of college doesn't really matter, college gpa is lower etc.

There was no assertion that sat/gpa had any relationship to teaching ability. One can have low gpa/low sat scores and be a good teacher or vice versa. The point was that students with lower gpa, lower sat tended to major in education.

You do not have to major in education as an undergraduate in order to become a teacher. And I am not talking about career switchers. In fact, many colleges/universities do not even offer a major in education. If you want to become a teacher, you major in a field and also do teacher education. See this program at Towson University for secondary education, for example: http://www.towson.edu/coe/sced/undergrad/secondary.asp

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This whole thread reminds me of SAHM threads. Somebody posts and asks teachers/SAHMs to defend their time/existence and when they do, they get torn about and called whiners.

Best not to engage, teachers and SAHMs.

Good analogy and advice.

OMG please. Anyone can be a SAHM. NOT anyone can be a quality teacher.

Your response makes no sense in this context. There is a similarity in how these two groups are treated here on DCUM. And apparently, realtors too (see new thread today/last night). Teachers and SAHMs don't generally come out whining, but when asked to defend themselves and account for their time, they get flamed. Doesn't seem fair since they are being asked.

I am guessing based on your response, you are one of those people who pile on SAHMs and can't see your own hypocrisy.

I am neither a SAHm nor a teacher (okay--I am, a college professor but that is not the same as a primary school teacher, duh), and even I can see how unfairly these threads tend to unspool.

I still think you're wrong. I am neither a SAHM nor a teacher. The reasons SAHM threads unspool is generally because people feel that SAHMs set women back, don't contribute to society, are fundamentally moochers, etc. I'm not saying I believe those things but the issues with teachers stem from a lack of understanding about the profession, I believe. Not so for SAHMs.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The ranking of different majors by SAT scores (total, reading, math, writing).

Education is pretty much in the last place right above various vocational trades and technicians.

http://www.businessinsider.com/heres-the-average-sat-score-for-every-college-major-2014-10

This would be meaningful if

1. the only way (or even the primary way) to become a teacher was to major in education as an undergraduate -- but it isn't
2. SAT scores had any relationship to any real-life factor, let alone teaching ability -- but they don't

We are discussing mostly education majors and not career switchers. Career switchers tend to be former attorneys, former scientists, former mathematicians etc. etc. The point was raised that it was relatively easier to become a teacher (major in education) compared to other majors meaning they had lower HS gpa, lower sat scores, reputation of college doesn't really matter, college gpa is lower etc.

There was no assertion that sat/gpa had any relationship to teaching ability. One can have low gpa/low sat scores and be a good teacher or vice versa. The point was that students with lower gpa, lower sat tended to major in education.