Anonymous
Post 09/23/2015 12:58     Subject: American Muslims, why do you support same sex marriage?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:My humble suggestion would be to become more devout in your own faith of Chrustianity or Judaism first. The devout Christians and Jews I know are kind and compassionate people who have never been accusatory, suspicious, or hostile towards my faith.


We all need to become more devout before we can accept that your one true faith is damning us to hell? Wha??


Not what I said. I said first try to learn about and love your own faith, because you disapprove of Islam. Heaven is open to Christians and Jews too. The goal is to go to Heaven, not necessarily as a Muslim.


Not according to the Quran it isn't. Besides, I am an Atheist. I've read more of the Quran than probably most of what you'd call faithful believers of Islam. My goal isn't to go to Heaven, but to have people tend to their imaginary friends on their own time, in their own space, without insisting that I do the same.
Anonymous
Post 09/23/2015 12:53     Subject: American Muslims, why do you support same sex marriage?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:My humble suggestion would be to become more devout in your own faith of Chrustianity or Judaism first. The devout Christians and Jews I know are kind and compassionate people who have never been accusatory, suspicious, or hostile towards my faith.


This is the argument equivalent of moving the goal post. Don't like Islam? It's because you are not devout enough. Only those who are not accusatory, suspicious, or hostile towards Islam are devout enough.


What is it you hope to hear? I am a practicing Muslim and I love my faith. 1.6 bil people practice Islam, probably 1.5 of them peacefully. They can't all be misguided fools. I am not an expert in it but know enough to refute your assertions. If you were sincerely curious, you would call those with far greater understanding. I am comfortable with the points I made. Sorry you aren't convinced.


Why not? At one point, most of the world believed the earth was flat, or that the sun revolved around the earth, or that there was some rational validity to the claims of a royal bloodline in terms of nation ruling. Humans are currently ignorant of the true cause of consciousness, the beginnings of our universe, and a multitude of other things we wonder about. We don't just throw our hands up and say "well, we don't know, therefore God". As human knowledge and literacy rates increase, religion has been seceding ground in return. It is in fact the current argument that the Muslim world is in such turmoil compared to Christian countries is because it has lower literacy rates and never went through a period of reformation where the belief system was allowed to be modernized. This is why Christianity, while still a larger religion by practitioners than Islam, does not have a problem with fundamentalism nearly to the degree of Islam. When denominations like the Westboro Baptist Church voice their bigotry, they are ridiculed and shunned. Meanwhile, Islam apologists try to divert the conversation of the Charlie Hebdo attack away from fundamentalism and towards one of economic and political oppression. Problems are multi-faceted, I agree, but you lose credibility when you refuse to address the face value of facts and instead insist that there is some other hidden meaning/cause, which only an Islam authority can reveal correctly. It's a circular argument, ignorant at best, disingenuous at worst.

Anonymous
Post 09/23/2015 11:35     Subject: American Muslims, why do you support same sex marriage?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:My humble suggestion would be to become more devout in your own faith of Chrustianity or Judaism first. The devout Christians and Jews I know are kind and compassionate people who have never been accusatory, suspicious, or hostile towards my faith.


We all need to become more devout before we can accept that your one true faith is damning us to hell? Wha??[/quote

Not what I said. I said first try to learn about and love your own faith, because you disapprove of Islam. Heaven is open to Christians and Jews too. The goal is to go to Heaven, not necessarily as a Muslim.
Anonymous
Post 09/23/2015 11:27     Subject: American Muslims, why do you support same sex marriage?
Anonymous wrote:My humble suggestion would be to become more devout in your own faith of Chrustianity or Judaism first. The devout Christians and Jews I know are kind and compassionate people who have never been accusatory, suspicious, or hostile towards my faith.


We all need to become more devout before we can accept that your one true faith is damning us to hell? Wha??
Anonymous
Post 09/23/2015 10:34     Subject: American Muslims, why do you support same sex marriage?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:My humble suggestion would be to become more devout in your own faith of Chrustianity or Judaism first. The devout Christians and Jews I know are kind and compassionate people who have never been accusatory, suspicious, or hostile towards my faith.


This is the argument equivalent of moving the goal post. Don't like Islam? It's because you are not devout enough. Only those who are not accusatory, suspicious, or hostile towards Islam are devout enough.


What is it you hope to hear? I am a practicing Muslim and I love my faith. 1.6 bil people practice Islam, probably 1.5 of them peacefully. They can't all be misguided fools. I am not an expert in it but know enough to refute your assertions. If you were sincerely curious, you would call those with far greater understanding. I am comfortable with the points I made. Sorry you aren't convinced.
Anonymous
Post 09/23/2015 09:43     Subject: American Muslims, why do you support same sex marriage?
Anonymous wrote:My humble suggestion would be to become more devout in your own faith of Chrustianity or Judaism first. The devout Christians and Jews I know are kind and compassionate people who have never been accusatory, suspicious, or hostile towards my faith.


This is the argument equivalent of moving the goal post. Don't like Islam? It's because you are not devout enough. Only those who are not accusatory, suspicious, or hostile towards Islam are devout enough.
Anonymous
Post 09/23/2015 09:39     Subject: American Muslims, why do you support same sex marriage?
Anonymous wrote:In other words, no matter who you speak with, how qualified they are, how much you learn, you are bent on vilifying Islam anyways. Ok then.


There is substantially no new development in this thread. You have people calling out problematic verses of the Quran, which the apologists defend through liberal interpretations thereof, with arguments reduced to whether we should take certain verses of the Quran at face value. Islam is not special in this regard. This same tired way of arguing has been heard from the Christians and the Jews throughout the past centuries. When confronted with modern scientific facts and contemporary social/political/moral values, religion invariably retreats and hide under excuse that certain passages don't mean what they literally are written to mean. We are told that to understand the TRUE meaning you have to learn more about it, consult authorities, or when all else fails, learn to read the religious texts in their original languages.
Anonymous
Post 09/22/2015 21:10     Subject: American Muslims, why do you support same sex marriage?
My humble suggestion would be to become more devout in your own faith of Chrustianity or Judaism first. The devout Christians and Jews I know are kind and compassionate people who have never been accusatory, suspicious, or hostile towards my faith.
Anonymous
Post 09/22/2015 19:56     Subject: American Muslims, why do you support same sex marriage?
So now that this thread has told me that Islam is the right religion, and that the rest of us have been misdirected does that me I should considered myself "informed" and must pursue deeper knowledge of it?

Because now that I "know" the basic truth I am obliged to keep going or else I am rejecting it and dooming myself to hell. Is that right?
Anonymous
Post 09/22/2015 18:54     Subject: American Muslims, why do you support same sex marriage?
In other words, no matter who you speak with, how qualified they are, how much you learn, you are bent on vilifying Islam anyways. Ok then.
Anonymous
Post 09/22/2015 13:09     Subject: American Muslims, why do you support same sex marriage?
In other words, there will be ample verbal and mental gymnastics to make the Quran say anything a reader wants to believe.
Anonymous
Post 09/21/2015 21:49     Subject: American Muslims, why do you support same sex marriage?
Never mind, its easy enough for people to google. And the answer to your question is also equally easy to find via simple google searches. There are plenty of detailed explanations online. If you still have questions, call one of the imams whose phone numbers I provided and ask them any question regarding it.

There is absolutely no contradiction in the Quran. Seek knowledge about it and you will find that to be true. Remember that just because some Muslims accept quranic text at face value doesn't mean nonmuslims should. Investigate, research islamic history, call scholars or imams. The information is available if you want to know.
Anonymous
Post 09/21/2015 21:16     Subject: American Muslims, why do you support same sex marriage?
Please provide the source (which translation and verse you are relying on) first.
Anonymous
Post 09/21/2015 17:00     Subject: American Muslims, why do you support same sex marriage?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:^^^ So the Trinity is a pretty insignificant thing to obsess over in the face of these vast differences in the fundamental values of Christianity and Islam.


As a Muslim I am giving you the Islamic perspective. Islam thinks trinity and assigning divinity to a man (albeit a prophet) is a pretty big deal. It isn't "insignificant." It may be to you, however. But you needn't agree with the Muslim perspective.

Whether the "unknowingly" provides a safe haven to only 1% of all Christians is not really relevant in the Quran or in Islam, which is why I don't address it. If it results in only 1% of all Christians being saved, so be it. The Quran simply says those who truly recognize Islam as the truth or know and believe in the oneness of God but still reject it or cover it up are committing a grievous sin.

As for all the other changes made to the Bible, Islam does not believe Jesus made those changes. Islam believes people did.

As for the Quran being "contradictory", it isn't. If it was I would have abandoned it long ago. The more I study it, the more just it shows itself to be.

This says much more about you than about the Quran. I stopped caring after reading "and Jews say Ezra is the son of God." Um no, they don't. I call it a big Quranic whoopsie.


Perhaps, yes. Me and the many millions that follow Islam too.


Different poster here. Can you talk about how you reconcile this passage about the Jews and Ezra with the idea that the Quran is perfect and infallible? Do many millions, especially those who don't read Arabic, not really realize this is in their book?
Anonymous
Post 09/21/2015 16:54     Subject: American Muslims, why do you support same sex marriage?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:^^^ So the Trinity is a pretty insignificant thing to obsess over in the face of these vast differences in the fundamental values of Christianity and Islam.


As a Muslim I am giving you the Islamic perspective. Islam thinks trinity and assigning divinity to a man (albeit a prophet) is a pretty big deal. It isn't "insignificant." It may be to you, however. But you needn't agree with the Muslim perspective.

Whether the "unknowingly" provides a safe haven to only 1% of all Christians is not really relevant in the Quran or in Islam, which is why I don't address it. If it results in only 1% of all Christians being saved, so be it. The Quran simply says those who truly recognize Islam as the truth or know and believe in the oneness of God but still reject it or cover it up are committing a grievous sin.

As for all the other changes made to the Bible, Islam does not believe Jesus made those changes. Islam believes people did.

As for the Quran being "contradictory", it isn't. If it was I would have abandoned it long ago. The more I study it, the more just it shows itself to be.

This says much more about you than about the Quran. I stopped caring after reading "and Jews say Ezra is the son of God." Um no, they don't. I call it a big Quranic whoopsie.


Perhaps, yes. Me and the many millions that follow Islam too.