Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Unfortunately this happens every year. HS students die in car crash because of drunk driving, speeding and not wearing seat belts and kids drowning in swimming pools during summer camp. Every. Single. Year.

These are preventable tragedies. So, what do we need to do?

We could raise the driving age to 18.

excellent idea. Driving around DC is a nightmare. I do the Beltway every day and there is always some idiot illegally passing on the right cutting in front of me and zipping over to the left by five lanes all without a signal light. My kids don't want to drive and I'm perfectly happy to let them do it when they are ready. Sixteen harkens back to farm days. Driving in D.C. is like driving the Autobahn. You have to be an attentive, experienced driver.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The goal is to get them to stop, or never start. Jail doesn't always do that. But if they have an intractable problem, sometimes jail is the only way to keep others safe.

The goal should be to raise them right to obey
(yes, I actually said the dirty word)
OBEY their parents.
This needs to start early.

If your kid doesn't obey you,
why in the hell are you giving him car keys??

This is the worst view of parenting I have ever read. Really bad.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

My kid is 12. I started driving when I was 21 and bought a car. Before then, I got around on foot, on a bike, on the bus, and in other people's cars. My niece is about to turn 18, she doesn't have a driver's license, and she gets around on a bike, on the bus, and on the Metro, as well as being driven by her parents.

Just over half of teenagers have a driver's license at 18 these days, compared to two-thirds 20 years ago.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/trafficandcommuting/fewer-teens-get-drivers-licenses/2013/07/31/60a32aae-f9c7-11e2-a369-d1954abcb7e3_story.html

Exactly. The smarter kids are successfully building their lives WITHOUT a car.

I'm the PP you're responding to. I didn't say anything about "smarter" kids. Kids who are able to get around without a car, do. Kids who aren't, don't.

The "smarter kids" are indeed just my opinion.
Now, that's *real* independence! Again, my opinion.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

My kid is 12. I started driving when I was 21 and bought a car. Before then, I got around on foot, on a bike, on the bus, and in other people's cars. My niece is about to turn 18, she doesn't have a driver's license, and she gets around on a bike, on the bus, and on the Metro, as well as being driven by her parents.

Just over half of teenagers have a driver's license at 18 these days, compared to two-thirds 20 years ago.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/trafficandcommuting/fewer-teens-get-drivers-licenses/2013/07/31/60a32aae-f9c7-11e2-a369-d1954abcb7e3_story.html

Exactly. The smarter kids are successfully building their lives WITHOUT a car.

I'm the PP you're responding to. I didn't say anything about "smarter" kids. Kids who are able to get around without a car, do. Kids who aren't, don't.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Sweet Jesus. How old are your kids? Because my son is 17. He has a job. He drives himself to sports- for example Legion baseball doesn't have buses, kids carpool and travel together, sometimes up to an hour away. He takes his girlfriend out on dates. He's going shopping today to buy her an gift- kinda tough when both parents work.

Listen- my kid is moving out of our house in about 14 months. If you honestly think you can foster independence by keeping him in bubble wrap until he's 18, I will strongly disagree. Driving a car has very little to do with being the "cool kid".

Does fostering independence require a driver's license? You can't have an independent kid unless the kid has a driver's license and access to a car?

I think it adds to it. Are you seriously going to drive your kid to and from a job? Drive him on dates? Take him to his friends' houses?

How old are your kids and when did YOU start driving? I'm genuinely curious.

My kid is 12. I started driving when I was 21 and bought a car. Before then, I got around on foot, on a bike, on the bus, and in other people's cars. My niece is about to turn 18, she doesn't have a driver's license, and she gets around on a bike, on the bus, and on the Metro, as well as being driven by her parents.

Just over half of teenagers have a driver's license at 18 these days, compared to two-thirds 20 years ago.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/trafficandcommuting/fewer-teens-get-drivers-licenses/2013/07/31/60a32aae-f9c7-11e2-a369-d1954abcb7e3_story.html

Exactly. The smarter kids are successfully building their lives WITHOUT a car.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The goal is to get them to stop, or never start. Jail doesn't always do that. But if they have an intractable problem, sometimes jail is the only way to keep others safe.

The goal should be to raise them right to obey
(yes, I actually said the dirty word)
OBEY their parents.
This needs to start early.

If your kid doesn't obey you,
why in the hell are you giving him car keys??

Personally, I'm not into making my kid obedient. I'm into making him think and act smart.

So he should do the right thing only if he agrees with it.
Ha! Good luck with that.

Anonymous wrote:
However UNintentional it may be, parents are completely enabling this HIGH risk activity of the kids driving.

Few families have a truly dire need for a 16 or 17 year old to be driving. But most every mom and dad wants their kid to be the cool kid in high school with a car.

We should rethink this mentality.

Huh? Drinking aside, driving many hours is how you become an experienced driver. I'm hoping this can happen on my watch, while they are still home. I would not want to send my kid off to adulthood without many hours of practice. It doesn't have anything to do with a dire need, although public transportation is not easy where we are and the car does make things easier.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Does fostering independence require a driver's license? You can't have an independent kid unless the kid has a driver's license and access to a car?

Not very easily if you are in the burbs or country. They are dependent on everyone else. And they might be dependent on friends who aren't the best drivers, or who do drink and drive.

Yes, I agree. It's one of the very real disadvantages of suburbs built on the assumption that if you want to go somewhere, you have to get in a car.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The goal is to get them to stop, or never start. Jail doesn't always do that. But if they have an intractable problem, sometimes jail is the only way to keep others safe.

The goal should be to raise them right to obey
(yes, I actually said the dirty word)
OBEY their parents.
This needs to start early.

If your kid doesn't obey you,
why in the hell are you giving him car keys??

Personally, I'm not into making my kid obedient. I'm into making him think and act smart.

Anonymous wrote:
However UNintentional it may be, parents are completely enabling this HIGH risk activity of the kids driving.

Few families have a truly dire need for a 16 or 17 year old to be driving. But most every mom and dad wants their kid to be the cool kid in high school with a car.

We should rethink this mentality.

This mentality exists for sure. Among the extended group of friends surrounding these kids you will find some very expensive cars. And NOT necessarily hand me downs. Souped up Jeeps, etc. Total young people cars.

However, my mother let me drive a lot because she trusted my driving rather than my being a passenger in another teen's car. I was certainly not a cool kid. But I never drank and drove, either.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Sweet Jesus. How old are your kids? Because my son is 17. He has a job. He drives himself to sports- for example Legion baseball doesn't have buses, kids carpool and travel together, sometimes up to an hour away. He takes his girlfriend out on dates. He's going shopping today to buy her an gift- kinda tough when both parents work.

Listen- my kid is moving out of our house in about 14 months. If you honestly think you can foster independence by keeping him in bubble wrap until he's 18, I will strongly disagree. Driving a car has very little to do with being the "cool kid".

Does fostering independence require a driver's license? You can't have an independent kid unless the kid has a driver's license and access to a car?

Not very easily if you are in the burbs or country. They are dependent on everyone else. And they might be dependent on friends who aren't the best drivers, or who do drink and drive.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
However UNintentional it may be, parents are completely enabling this HIGH risk activity of the kids driving.

Few families have a truly dire need for a 16 or 17 year old to be driving. But most every mom and dad wants their kid to be the cool kid in high school with a car.

We should rethink this mentality.

Unless you can be in two, three or four places at once, this is not true if you have multiple children and they are involved in activities.

I'm sorry, which activity is worth risking your kid's life?
Let's not kid ourselves here. It's a HUGE risk.

Sweet Jesus. How old are your kids? Because my son is 17. He has a job. He drives himself to sports- for example Legion baseball doesn't have buses, kids carpool and travel together, sometimes up to an hour away. He takes his girlfriend out on dates. He's going shopping today to buy her an gift- kinda tough when both parents work.

Listen- my kid is moving out of our house in about 14 months. If you honestly think you can foster independence by keeping him in bubble wrap until he's 18, I will strongly disagree. Driving a car has very little to do with being the "cool kid".

The real question is, does he drive himself to drinking parties?

I would hope no parent would allow driving to drinking parties. On the other hand, once they leave the house can a parent really control what happens? Can you trust your child to be honest with you? Can you trust your child to make good decisions? Can you trust that the parents of the kids your kids hang out with have similar rules and expectations?

As a teen parent, I find one of the hardest things is finding a balance between letting go of the control to allow them the freedom to make decisions themselves and having total control so they never made mistakes.

If only they never grew up..............

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Sweet Jesus. How old are your kids? Because my son is 17. He has a job. He drives himself to sports- for example Legion baseball doesn't have buses, kids carpool and travel together, sometimes up to an hour away. He takes his girlfriend out on dates. He's going shopping today to buy her an gift- kinda tough when both parents work.

Listen- my kid is moving out of our house in about 14 months. If you honestly think you can foster independence by keeping him in bubble wrap until he's 18, I will strongly disagree. Driving a car has very little to do with being the "cool kid".

Does fostering independence require a driver's license? You can't have an independent kid unless the kid has a driver's license and access to a car?

I think it adds to it. Are you seriously going to drive your kid to and from a job? Drive him on dates? Take him to his friends' houses?

How old are your kids and when did YOU start driving? I'm genuinely curious.

Not the PP you're responding to but NO, i won't, because we bought in the city where he can get his own ass to school, friends houses, dates, etc without ever needing to get behind the wheel. My kids' safety and independence was more important to us than 5 bedrooms and a big yard.

You're a very wise parent. I like you. Lucky are your kids.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Sweet Jesus. How old are your kids? Because my son is 17. He has a job. He drives himself to sports- for example Legion baseball doesn't have buses, kids carpool and travel together, sometimes up to an hour away. He takes his girlfriend out on dates. He's going shopping today to buy her an gift- kinda tough when both parents work.

Listen- my kid is moving out of our house in about 14 months. If you honestly think you can foster independence by keeping him in bubble wrap until he's 18, I will strongly disagree. Driving a car has very little to do with being the "cool kid".

Does fostering independence require a driver's license? You can't have an independent kid unless the kid has a driver's license and access to a car?

I think it adds to it. Are you seriously going to drive your kid to and from a job? Drive him on dates? Take him to his friends' houses?

How old are your kids and when did YOU start driving? I'm genuinely curious.

My kid is 12. I started driving when I was 21 and bought a car. Before then, I got around on foot, on a bike, on the bus, and in other people's cars. My niece is about to turn 18, she doesn't have a driver's license, and she gets around on a bike, on the bus, and on the Metro, as well as being driven by her parents.

Just over half of teenagers have a driver's license at 18 these days, compared to two-thirds 20 years ago.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/trafficandcommuting/fewer-teens-get-drivers-licenses/2013/07/31/60a32aae-f9c7-11e2-a369-d1954abcb7e3_story.html

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Sweet Jesus. How old are your kids? Because my son is 17. He has a job. He drives himself to sports- for example Legion baseball doesn't have buses, kids carpool and travel together, sometimes up to an hour away. He takes his girlfriend out on dates. He's going shopping today to buy her an gift- kinda tough when both parents work.

Listen- my kid is moving out of our house in about 14 months. If you honestly think you can foster independence by keeping him in bubble wrap until he's 18, I will strongly disagree. Driving a car has very little to do with being the "cool kid".

Does fostering independence require a driver's license? You can't have an independent kid unless the kid has a driver's license and access to a car?

I think it adds to it. Are you seriously going to drive your kid to and from a job? Drive him on dates? Take him to his friends' houses?

How old are your kids and when did YOU start driving? I'm genuinely curious.

Different poster, but I learned to drive and got a car at 18. What's wrong with that? Or 21 for that matter?