IB is a negative for the lower ranked SES schools. Few students pursue an IB diploma and students have an automatic out, assuming they can arrange for transportation, to attend a higher ranked AP school. I don't have it available now, but I've seen historical data on the number of transfers from Lee to West Springfield, Annandale to Woodson, and Mount Vernon to West Potomac. There were a lot of pupil placements.

IB is a plus for Marshall, because it's surrounded by AP schools. So, even though IB is less popular than AP, one IB school surrounded by four AP schools will benefit from pupil placements. To some extent, that's happening at South Lakes now, too. Unfortunately, it's not the model throughout the county, so the schools that get screwed are the IB schools close to one another. Both Mount Vernon and Stuart, IB schools, are on a watch list of schools at risk of losing state accreditation.

FCPS doesn't like to admit that it may have made a mistake, or ever take away a program that it's introduced somewhere. If we are in cost-cutting times, however, the sensible thing for FCPS to do is look at both the higher costs associated with IB (coordinators, teacher training, IBO fees, etc.) and the IB and AP participation rates for lower SES students at different county schools. Unless they can conclude that, somehow, the majority of the students at schools like Lee, Annandale, etc. are getting a benefit from IB, they ought to get rid of it. AP works well elsewhere, and reintroducing AP at schools like Lee might stem the flow of out-bound pupil placements.

Keeping IB schools in central parts of the county, like the Annandale area, would make them accessible to anyone in the county that really wanted IB for their kids while preventing the county from losing their entire IB investment (trained teachers, etc). But otherwise, IB should be scaled way back to save money.

Bottom line: we are paying twice as much for IB than AP. Cut it.

Anonymous wrote:
The schools I think you're talking about would not have higher ratings if they were AP. Nor would this pull them out of poverty.

I would put Marshall (an IB school, horrors!) against any that you've mentioned. You need to get out of the past and do some research. But wait, don't. I'd rather my kids were at an undiscovered, underrated school that is actually great, than one filled with children of people like you.

btw, few kids, if any people place for the academy.

Again, why is having a choice so offensive to you? In the areas you're talking about most kids start driving themselves late sophomore year, so the bus argument is irrelevant. And most people who read these boards would carry their kids to TJ on their backs if the kids could get in so the pain of having to get kids a ride or carpool, I'm not buying.

IB is a negative for the lower ranked SES schools. Few students pursue an IB diploma and students have an automatic out, assuming they can arrange for transportation, to attend a higher ranked AP school. I don't have it available now, but I've seen historical data on the number of transfers from Lee to West Springfield, Annandale to Woodson, and Mount Vernon to West Potomac. There were a lot of pupil placements.

IB is a plus for Marshall, because it's surrounded by AP schools. So, even though IB is less popular than AP, one IB school surrounded by four AP schools will benefit from pupil placements. To some extent, that's happening at South Lakes now, too. Unfortunately, it's not the model throughout the county, so the schools that get screwed are the IB schools close to one another. Both Mount Vernon and Stuart, IB schools, are on a watch list of schools at risk of losing state accreditation.

FCPS doesn't like to admit that it may have made a mistake, or ever take away a program that it's introduced somewhere. If we are in cost-cutting times, however, the sensible thing for FCPS to do is look at both the higher costs associated with IB (coordinators, teacher training, IBO fees, etc.) and the IB and AP participation rates for lower SES students at different county schools. Unless they can conclude that, somehow, the majority of the students at schools like Lee, Annandale, etc. are getting a benefit from IB, they ought to get rid of it. AP works well elsewhere, and reintroducing AP at schools like Lee might stem the flow of out-bound pupil placements.

Anonymous wrote:

I think you are ignoring the table and simply asking a question more to your own liking.

Who cares if 100% of the IB diploma candidates get an IB diploma if we're paying through the nose for an under-subscribed program?

Wait. You don't care if 100% of the IB diploma candidates get diplomas???

If a school has 500 graduating seniors, and there are only five IB diploma candidates, I don't really care whether two, four or five of them get diplomas. What matters is that 99% of the graduates didn't think the program was for them.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What I don't understand is why people get all worked up about this? If you don't like the IB or AP program at your base school you can people place. Both programs have pluses and minuses. Shouldn't we be grateful that students are at least offered a choice? Instead you've got people yapping bizarre things like, "AP is better because more Asians choose it?" I mean honestly, can't we all just accept that different people want different things and there's no right answer except the program that's right for your kid?

Why should they have to pupil place and go to school without friends they've grown up with? Why should high schools continuously get lower ratings than they would if they were AP schools further keeping these schools in poverty. It remains that Langley, Mclean, Madison, Oakton, Woodson, and Chantilly - the top schools in Fairfax are all AP schools. No one is clamoring to get into an IB school except Marshall and that school is a draw because of their academy programs just as much as their IB programs, plus I think half of the transfers come from Falls Church just wanting to get out of that high school boundary.

The schools I think you're talking about would not have higher ratings if they were AP. Nor would this pull them out of poverty.

I would put Marshall (an IB school, horrors!) against any that you've mentioned. You need to get out of the past and do some research. But wait, don't. I'd rather my kids were at an undiscovered, underrated school that is actually great, than one filled with children of people like you.

btw, few kids, if any people place for the academy.

Again, why is having a choice so offensive to you? In the areas you're talking about most kids start driving themselves late sophomore year, so the bus argument is irrelevant. And most people who read these boards would carry their kids to TJ on their backs if the kids could get in so the pain of having to get kids a ride or carpool, I'm not buying.

I have nothing against Marshall. I own a house in that district. I just see IB as not as popular as AP and more costly.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What I don't understand is why people get all worked up about this? If you don't like the IB or AP program at your base school you can people place. Both programs have pluses and minuses. Shouldn't we be grateful that students are at least offered a choice? Instead you've got people yapping bizarre things like, "AP is better because more Asians choose it?" I mean honestly, can't we all just accept that different people want different things and there's no right answer except the program that's right for your kid?

Why should they have to pupil place and go to school without friends they've grown up with? Why should high schools continuously get lower ratings than they would if they were AP schools further keeping these schools in poverty. It remains that Langley, Mclean, Madison, Oakton, Woodson, and Chantilly - the top schools in Fairfax are all AP schools. No one is clamoring to get into an IB school except Marshall and that school is a draw because of their academy programs just as much as their IB programs, plus I think half of the transfers come from Falls Church just wanting to get out of that high school boundary.

The schools I think you're talking about would not have higher ratings if they were AP. Nor would this pull them out of poverty.

I would put Marshall (an IB school, horrors!) against any that you've mentioned. You need to get out of the past and do some research. But wait, don't. I'd rather my kids were at an undiscovered, underrated school that is actually great, than one filled with children of people like you.

btw, few kids, if any people place for the academy.

Again, why is having a choice so offensive to you? In the areas you're talking about most kids start driving themselves late sophomore year, so the bus argument is irrelevant. And most people who read these boards would carry their kids to TJ on their backs if the kids could get in so the pain of having to get kids a ride or carpool, I'm not buying.

Anonymous wrote:What I don't understand is why people get all worked up about this? If you don't like the IB or AP program at your base school you can people place. Both programs have pluses and minuses. Shouldn't we be grateful that students are at least offered a choice? Instead you've got people yapping bizarre things like, "AP is better because more Asians choose it?" I mean honestly, can't we all just accept that different people want different things and there's no right answer except the program that's right for your kid?

Why should they have to pupil place and go to school without friends they've grown up with? Why should high schools continuously get lower ratings than they would if they were AP schools further keeping these schools in poverty. It remains that Langley, Mclean, Madison, Oakton, Woodson, and Chantilly - the top schools in Fairfax are all AP schools. No one is clamoring to get into an IB school except Marshall and that school is a draw because of their academy programs just as much as their IB programs, plus I think half of the transfers come from Falls Church just wanting to get out of that high school boundary.

Loudly insisting that other schools in FCPS must be inferior, without actually doing the research. Go to your local IB night and FCAG's AP/ IB panel, and then maybe your opinion will count for something.

Anonymous wrote:I've read most of this thread and it makes no sense. If IB were even close to being as rigorous as AP, why wouldn't FCPS put it in the schools with more high-performing kids, not the low-SES schools? Either it's not as hard as some people like to claim or FCPS made a big blunder. It just doesn't add up. if I were OP, it would take me about 10 seconds to decide to stick with Langley.

FCPS made a big blunder. They though IB would pull high SES kids to low performing schools., this pulling those schools up. It didn't-- probably because parents who intentionally buy at a high SES "prestigious" high school have no interest in letting their kids go to a low SES school. They want to be able to name drop that their kid is at Langley, and would be embarrassed to say they have a kid at Mt. Vernon. If you can afford to buy in the Langley district, they want people to know. They also don't learn about the program. In fact, they have a vested interest in having IB fail-- and you can see that in this conversation. If a kid can get a great education at a low SES school, why spend so much money to buy in Langley borders? I'd bet that most parents railing against IB never went with their kid to IB night at their transfer HS to learn about the program with an open mind. If FCPS had put IB in just South Lakes and Robinson, and make it competitive entry in some way (say, you need a certain MS GPA, plus a B+ or greater in a first year foreign language and Geometry, it would be very highly regarded. Also, FCPS doesn't provide transportation, which is a huge barrier for some kids.

But really, this thread is a bunch of Madison, Langley, Oakton, etc parents loud

I think you are ignoring the table and simply asking a question more to your own liking.

Who cares if 100% of the IB diploma candidates get an IB diploma if we're paying through the nose for an under-subscribed program?

Wait. You don't care if 100% of the IB diploma candidates get diplomas???

Tiresome thread. Got nothing useful out of it.

The two programs also offer people of opting out of an "inferior" school in order to go to a more "superior" one. Believe me, this is done.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What I don't understand is why people get all worked up about this? If you don't like the IB or AP program at your base school you can people place. Both programs have pluses and minuses. Shouldn't we be grateful that students are at least offered a choice? Instead you've got people yapping bizarre things like, "AP is better because more Asians choose it?" I mean honestly, can't we all just accept that different people want different things and there's no right answer except the program that's right for your kid?

If you pupil place, you have to provide your own transportation and your child could be going to a school far from your home with very few, if any, neighborhood friends. Having your child start high school in a school where he or she knows no one might be what gets people worked up, especially if your child's base school offers a program that only a tiny percentage of the student body opt to take.

What? Come again?

If your base high school offers IB and you pupil place to an AP school, you need to figure out how to get your child to the AP school, there is no bus. Because of the bus issue and the fact that the designated AP school for my DC is not close to our neighborhood, DC knows no one who will be attending the AP high school. The base school is one of the schools with low IB participation and its been like that for 20 years, so I do wonder why FCPS keeps IB at the school if so few people opt for the program. Some schools like Marshall should be IB, but if the program is under utilized for decades, I see the merit in reassessing and seeing whether AP is a better option for some schools. I know it won't happen, I'm just pointing out why people might "get all worked up." If DC decides to do AP, we can figure out the transportation issue, but not everyone can, so for many there is no real "option."

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What I don't understand is why people get all worked up about this? If you don't like the IB or AP program at your base school you can people place. Both programs have pluses and minuses. Shouldn't we be grateful that students are at least offered a choice? Instead you've got people yapping bizarre things like, "AP is better because more Asians choose it?" I mean honestly, can't we all just accept that different people want different things and there's no right answer except the program that's right for your kid?

If you pupil place, you have to provide your own transportation and your child could be going to a school far from your home with very few, if any, neighborhood friends. Having your child start high school in a school where he or she knows no one might be what gets people worked up, especially if your child's base school offers a program that only a tiny percentage of the student body opt to take.

What? Come again?

Anonymous wrote:What I don't understand is why people get all worked up about this? If you don't like the IB or AP program at your base school you can people place. Both programs have pluses and minuses. Shouldn't we be grateful that students are at least offered a choice? Instead you've got people yapping bizarre things like, "AP is better because more Asians choose it?" I mean honestly, can't we all just accept that different people want different things and there's no right answer except the program that's right for your kid?

If you pupil place, you have to provide your own transportation and your child could be going to a school far from your home with very few, if any, neighborhood friends. Having your child start high school in a school where he or she knows no one might be what gets people worked up, especially if your child's base school offers a program that only a tiny percentage of the student body opt to take.