Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It seems pretty obvious, if you accept the Christian God, that he created us in part to see some of us go to hell, thanks to his gift of free will.

I mean, why create hell if no one would be there? And why make it so hard for a lot of the people he created to even know about him.

Many people, over 1000's of years, have lived in countries that have had no or limited access to information about how his son died for our sins. In other countries like the US, even dedicated proselytizers can't convince all the people about the need to believe.

And here we are in the 21st century when more and more people are literate and have incredible access to information and instead of more people believing in Him, more people are dropping their beliefs to become "spiritual but not religious" or not religious, period.

It sure sounds like he's lost interest in us.

Really? It sounds more like we've lost interest in Him.

No -- if he cared about us so much, created us, sent his son, etc, etc, gave us the free will to accept him, you'd think the information explosion would be working favor of more people believing in him, not the opposite.

God's information explosion is the Bible, but you can see for yourself even on this forum how many people disdain that. There are some "progressive Christians" on here who see the value in questioning all sorts of things about their spirituality so that they're not even alarmed when their kids become witches and atheists. How is that on God if we spurn the Word that He gave us to follow after other gods?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It seems pretty obvious, if you accept the Christian God, that he created us in part to see some of us go to hell, thanks to his gift of free will.

I mean, why create hell if no one would be there? And why make it so hard for a lot of the people he created to even know about him.

Many people, over 1000's of years, have lived in countries that have had no or limited access to information about how his son died for our sins. In other countries like the US, even dedicated proselytizers can't convince all the people about the need to believe.

And here we are in the 21st century when more and more people are literate and have incredible access to information and instead of more people believing in Him, more people are dropping their beliefs to become "spiritual but not religious" or not religious, period.

It sure sounds like he's lost interest in us.

The Bible says Hell was created for Satan and his angels. God did not create man to throw him there but to have a relationship with Him. But those who reject God have cast their fate with Satan. No one needs ever go there except of their own choice, but God cannot allow anyone to carry his sin and rebellion into Heaven.

many people who reject god also reject satan - don't believe in either one of them

Handy, though, of God to have a spare room where people who rejected him could go.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It seems pretty obvious, if you accept the Christian God, that he created us in part to see some of us go to hell, thanks to his gift of free will.

I mean, why create hell if no one would be there? And why make it so hard for a lot of the people he created to even know about him.

Many people, over 1000's of years, have lived in countries that have had no or limited access to information about how his son died for our sins. In other countries like the US, even dedicated proselytizers can't convince all the people about the need to believe.

And here we are in the 21st century when more and more people are literate and have incredible access to information and instead of more people believing in Him, more people are dropping their beliefs to become "spiritual but not religious" or not religious, period.

It sure sounds like he's lost interest in us.

Really? It sounds more like we've lost interest in Him.

No -- if he cared about us so much, created us, sent his son, etc, etc, gave us the free will to accept him, you'd think the information explosion would be working favor of more people believing in him, not the opposite.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
The fearful poster earlier should know that if you teach your children about Christ from the beginning, actually believe the Gospel, and model Christ-like behavior as a parent (and friend, spouse, brother/sister, etc.), the chances of them continuing in the faith are really quite good. But if you encourage all sorts of "spiritual questioning," which is really just a way to deny Christ, you probably will end up with who-knows-what.

That is actually false info. People are leaving organized religion and adults are especially leaving fundamentalist religions after being threatened as children by what would await them if they questioned Christ. Even if the chances were very good, if it still asking a mother to give birth with the threat that her beloved child will go to hell.

That is why I said to model Christ-like behavior. It makes a huge difference.

How do you know?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It seems pretty obvious, if you accept the Christian God, that he created us in part to see some of us go to hell, thanks to his gift of free will.

I mean, why create hell if no one would be there? And why make it so hard for a lot of the people he created to even know about him.

Many people, over 1000's of years, have lived in countries that have had no or limited access to information about how his son died for our sins. In other countries like the US, even dedicated proselytizers can't convince all the people about the need to believe.

And here we are in the 21st century when more and more people are literate and have incredible access to information and instead of more people believing in Him, more people are dropping their beliefs to become "spiritual but not religious" or not religious, period.

It sure sounds like he's lost interest in us.

The Bible says Hell was created for Satan and his angels. God did not create man to throw him there but to have a relationship with Him. But those who reject God have cast their fate with Satan. No one needs ever go there except of their own choice, but God cannot allow anyone to carry his sin and rebellion into Heaven.

chuckle

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
The fearful poster earlier should know that if you teach your children about Christ from the beginning, actually believe the Gospel, and model Christ-like behavior as a parent (and friend, spouse, brother/sister, etc.), the chances of them continuing in the faith are really quite good. But if you encourage all sorts of "spiritual questioning," which is really just a way to deny Christ, you probably will end up with who-knows-what.

That is actually false info. People are leaving organized religion and adults are especially leaving fundamentalist religions after being threatened as children by what would await them if they questioned Christ. Even if the chances were very good, if it still asking a mother to give birth with the threat that her beloved child will go to hell.

That is why I said to model Christ-like behavior. It makes a huge difference.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
The fearful poster earlier should know that if you teach your children about Christ from the beginning, actually believe the Gospel, and model Christ-like behavior as a parent (and friend, spouse, brother/sister, etc.), the chances of them continuing in the faith are really quite good. But if you encourage all sorts of "spiritual questioning," which is really just a way to deny Christ, you probably will end up with who-knows-what.

That is actually false info. People are leaving organized religion and adults are especially leaving fundamentalist religions after being threatened as children by what would await them if they questioned Christ. Even if the chances were very good, if it still asking a mother to give birth with the threat that her beloved child will go to hell.

Again with the children in hell?

Again with the glossing over of false information. So far no one has an answer for the prospective mother whose protecting her children from hell by not having any -- except for having lots of kids, increasing the chances that some will accept Christ and get to heaven.

I'm the one who suggested she seek professional help. Do you think DCUM is better equipped to help her?

This was the exchange

Anonymous wrote:

For pp who refuses to have children based on a fear of hell I would suggest she see a therapist for anxiety. It's obviously affecting her life is a destructive way.

And yes, as a parent I accept that my child will not adopt the same viewpoints that I have. That's part of parenting.


Good advice. Do you recommend a Christian therapist, a secular (regular) therapist or obit -- and how about taking her fears to her pastor?


It probably depends. If anxiety is a common thread throughout her life she should see a general therapist who can give her the tools to overcome negative thought patterns. If the idea of hell is all that is burdening her than an appointment with a trusted clergyman may be helpful.

Anonymous wrote:It seems pretty obvious, if you accept the Christian God, that he created us in part to see some of us go to hell, thanks to his gift of free will.

I mean, why create hell if no one would be there? And why make it so hard for a lot of the people he created to even know about him.

Many people, over 1000's of years, have lived in countries that have had no or limited access to information about how his son died for our sins. In other countries like the US, even dedicated proselytizers can't convince all the people about the need to believe.

And here we are in the 21st century when more and more people are literate and have incredible access to information and instead of more people believing in Him, more people are dropping their beliefs to become "spiritual but not religious" or not religious, period.

It sure sounds like he's lost interest in us.

Really? It sounds more like we've lost interest in Him.

Anonymous wrote:It seems pretty obvious, if you accept the Christian God, that he created us in part to see some of us go to hell, thanks to his gift of free will.

I mean, why create hell if no one would be there? And why make it so hard for a lot of the people he created to even know about him.

Many people, over 1000's of years, have lived in countries that have had no or limited access to information about how his son died for our sins. In other countries like the US, even dedicated proselytizers can't convince all the people about the need to believe.

And here we are in the 21st century when more and more people are literate and have incredible access to information and instead of more people believing in Him, more people are dropping their beliefs to become "spiritual but not religious" or not religious, period.

It sure sounds like he's lost interest in us.

The Bible says Hell was created for Satan and his angels. God did not create man to throw him there but to have a relationship with Him. But those who reject God have cast their fate with Satan. No one needs ever go there except of their own choice, but God cannot allow anyone to carry his sin and rebellion into Heaven.

Anonymous wrote:It seems pretty obvious, if you accept the Christian God, that he created us in part to see some of us go to hell, thanks to his gift of free will.

I mean, why create hell if no one would be there? And why make it so hard for a lot of the people he created to even know about him.

Many people, over 1000's of years, have lived in countries that have had no or limited access to information about how his son died for our sins. In other countries like the US, even dedicated proselytizers can't convince all the people about the need to believe.

And here we are in the 21st century when more and more people are literate and have incredible access to information and instead of more people believing in Him, more people are dropping their beliefs to become "spiritual but not religious" or not religious, period.

It sure sounds like he's lost interest in us.

Plenty of atheists swear they will not, cannot, be swayed to accept God. They have come to their own conclusions. So what if hell is more of a nonexistence after this lifetime. What would be so bad about that for them? I don't think hell is fire for eternity. I think few people here do.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
The fearful poster earlier should know that if you teach your children about Christ from the beginning, actually believe the Gospel, and model Christ-like behavior as a parent (and friend, spouse, brother/sister, etc.), the chances of them continuing in the faith are really quite good. But if you encourage all sorts of "spiritual questioning," which is really just a way to deny Christ, you probably will end up with who-knows-what.

That is actually false info. People are leaving organized religion and adults are especially leaving fundamentalist religions after being threatened as children by what would await them if they questioned Christ. Even if the chances were very good, if it still asking a mother to give birth with the threat that her beloved child will go to hell.

Again with the children in hell?

Again with the glossing over of false information. So far no one has an answer for the prospective mother whose protecting her children from hell by not having any -- except for having lots of kids, increasing the chances that some will accept Christ and get to heaven.

In 2 Timothy 1:7, we are told, "God has not given us the spirit of fear; but of power, and of love, and of a sound mind." I would say to the fearful mother that God does not want her to live in fear, and that if she raised children to love the LORD, and if she loved the LORD and loved those children with that same love, she will get to spend eternity with them. I do not have children myself, but I work with some, and I have friends who raise their children in loving Christian homes, and those kids love God. I am sorry for those who were raised in strict church upbringings, but that is not the way we are taught Christ. We are taught in the Bible to love the LORD with our whole hearts and that there is joy and peace in this. This is why there is such a debate about whether we are saved by doing good works or by faith. We are saved by faith, and in this faith, we are helped to good works by the Holy Spirit. It's a loving God who made it this way, to save us by our faith and not our works, because in works there is a constant striving for approval and a never-ending worry about whether we will be "good enough" to go to Heaven. Well, no one is good enough to Heaven. Which is why God in His love and mercy said just to believe in Christ, and rest in that. If you truly love Christ, you will do good works out of that love, but if you mess up, He will work with you and love you the same way a loving parent on Earth would. I could go on and on, but we do not earn our favor with God by being good. We earn it by trusting in His beloved Son. And this is extremely liberating. The "fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom" -- it leads us to accept Christ -- but once we've put our trust in Christ, we become adopted children of our Heavenly Father, and we do not need to live in fear of a loving father.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
The fearful poster earlier should know that if you teach your children about Christ from the beginning, actually believe the Gospel, and model Christ-like behavior as a parent (and friend, spouse, brother/sister, etc.), the chances of them continuing in the faith are really quite good. But if you encourage all sorts of "spiritual questioning," which is really just a way to deny Christ, you probably will end up with who-knows-what.

That is actually false info. People are leaving organized religion and adults are especially leaving fundamentalist religions after being threatened as children by what would await them if they questioned Christ. Even if the chances were very good, if it still asking a mother to give birth with the threat that her beloved child will go to hell.

Again with the children in hell?

Again with the glossing over of false information. So far no one has an answer for the prospective mother whose protecting her children from hell by not having any -- except for having lots of kids, increasing the chances that some will accept Christ and get to heaven.

I'm the one who suggested she seek professional help. Do you think DCUM is better equipped to help her?

It seems pretty obvious, if you accept the Christian God, that he created us in part to see some of us go to hell, thanks to his gift of free will.

I mean, why create hell if no one would be there? And why make it so hard for a lot of the people he created to even know about him.

Many people, over 1000's of years, have lived in countries that have had no or limited access to information about how his son died for our sins. In other countries like the US, even dedicated proselytizers can't convince all the people about the need to believe.

And here we are in the 21st century when more and more people are literate and have incredible access to information and instead of more people believing in Him, more people are dropping their beliefs to become "spiritual but not religious" or not religious, period.

It sure sounds like he's lost interest in us.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
The fearful poster earlier should know that if you teach your children about Christ from the beginning, actually believe the Gospel, and model Christ-like behavior as a parent (and friend, spouse, brother/sister, etc.), the chances of them continuing in the faith are really quite good. But if you encourage all sorts of "spiritual questioning," which is really just a way to deny Christ, you probably will end up with who-knows-what.

That is actually false info. People are leaving organized religion and adults are especially leaving fundamentalist religions after being threatened as children by what would await them if they questioned Christ. Even if the chances were very good, if it still asking a mother to give birth with the threat that her beloved child will go to hell.

Again with the children in hell?

Again with the glossing over of false information. So far no one has an answer for the prospective mother whose protecting her children from hell by not having any -- except for having lots of kids, increasing the chances that some will accept Christ and get to heaven.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
The fearful poster earlier should know that if you teach your children about Christ from the beginning, actually believe the Gospel, and model Christ-like behavior as a parent (and friend, spouse, brother/sister, etc.), the chances of them continuing in the faith are really quite good. But if you encourage all sorts of "spiritual questioning," which is really just a way to deny Christ, you probably will end up with who-knows-what.

That is actually false info. People are leaving organized religion and adults are especially leaving fundamentalist religions after being threatened as children by what would await them if they questioned Christ. Even if the chances were very good, if it still asking a mother to give birth with the threat that her beloved child will go to hell.

Again with the children in hell?