Anonymous
01/05/2015 09:26
Subject: Re:What should Public schools do for your child if she reads 3 grades above ?
Anonymous wrote:Fact: Public schools do have limited budgets.
Question: Do you really think that providing special education teachers for the gifted is a good use of funds?
Unlike special education for special needs, special education for gifted doesn't need to cost more than general ed education. In Fairfax County, the only additional cost is the bussing.
Anonymous
01/05/2015 09:25
Subject: Re:What should Public schools do for your child if she reads 3 grades above ?
Anonymous wrote:You still haven't posted anything that indicates the impact of not meeting the needs of advanced learners. So what if they're bored, uneganged and dismissive of school? That sounds like the average teenager. You utterly fail to understand what 'impact' means. What percentage of the student population is affected? You claim this is a widespread problem but you don't provide any information as to how widespread it is. The third article which you love so much is suspect because the author believes the reasons more isn't offered is because it "offends our egalitarian sensibilities" (if that were the case then why are LD kids receiving special education) and "the deep strain of anti-intellectualism that pervades our culture." Really?
Your inability to post a link, your inability to summarize information, your inability to provide statistics and the age of the articles you did provide (the most recent is from 2004, the oldest from 1996) all point to someone who has not done researched this area and expects people to just accept what she perceives to be true. I fully support differentiated instruction and AAP classes. You just haven't provided anything that indicates the needs of advanced learners aren't being met. You have provided nothing that supports your assertion that what's already being provided isn't sufficient. Everyone else who has chimed in indicates their advanced learners don't have the problem you claim yours does. Why don't you contact one of the 'many specialists' you claim are available to SN parents and see what she can do for you.
You have not posted ONE SINGLE LINK to make your case as to why it absolutely cannot and must not be offered. All you've done is offer up your own narcissistic, condescending, arrogant and self-absorbed opinions and denials, as though you are king of the world, and just because you aren't personally having to deal with it, that therefore it does not exist and should not be dealt with.
You have utterly failed to make YOUR case.
Anonymous
01/05/2015 08:53
Subject: Re:What should Public schools do for your child if she reads 3 grades above ?
Fact: Public schools do have limited budgets.
Question: Do you really think that providing special education teachers for the gifted is a good use of funds?
Question: Do you really think that providing special education teachers for the gifted is a good use of funds?
Anonymous
01/05/2015 07:43
Subject: Re:What should Public schools do for your child if she reads 3 grades above ?
You still haven't posted anything that indicates the impact of not meeting the needs of advanced learners. So what if they're bored, uneganged and dismissive of school? That sounds like the average teenager. You utterly fail to understand what 'impact' means. What percentage of the student population is affected? You claim this is a widespread problem but you don't provide any information as to how widespread it is. The third article which you love so much is suspect because the author believes the reasons more isn't offered is because it "offends our egalitarian sensibilities" (if that were the case then why are LD kids receiving special education) and "the deep strain of anti-intellectualism that pervades our culture." Really?
Your inability to post a link, your inability to summarize information, your inability to provide statistics and the age of the articles you did provide (the most recent is from 2004, the oldest from 1996) all point to someone who has not done researched this area and expects people to just accept what she perceives to be true. I fully support differentiated instruction and AAP classes. You just haven't provided anything that indicates the needs of advanced learners aren't being met. You have provided nothing that supports your assertion that what's already being provided isn't sufficient. Everyone else who has chimed in indicates their advanced learners don't have the problem you claim yours does. Why don't you contact one of the 'many specialists' you claim are available to SN parents and see what she can do for you.
Your inability to post a link, your inability to summarize information, your inability to provide statistics and the age of the articles you did provide (the most recent is from 2004, the oldest from 1996) all point to someone who has not done researched this area and expects people to just accept what she perceives to be true. I fully support differentiated instruction and AAP classes. You just haven't provided anything that indicates the needs of advanced learners aren't being met. You have provided nothing that supports your assertion that what's already being provided isn't sufficient. Everyone else who has chimed in indicates their advanced learners don't have the problem you claim yours does. Why don't you contact one of the 'many specialists' you claim are available to SN parents and see what she can do for you.
Anonymous
01/04/2015 22:55
Subject: What should Public schools do for your child if she reads 3 grades above ?
^ This third article in particular affirms and reinforces what's been said here several times by at a couple of different posters about how advanced learners get out of sync, get resentful and even hostile toward schooling, and goes on to talk about how to approach the issue.
Anonymous
01/04/2015 22:49
Subject: Re:What should Public schools do for your child if she reads 3 grades above ?
[i]The miseducation of our gifted children
Winner, E.
1996
Numerous studies confirm a sad finding: The most intellectually gifted students in the United States typically have little good to say about their schooling. Gifted children are usually bored and unengaged in school; they tend to be highly critical of their teachers, who they feel know less than they do, and they are often underachievers. In the best-case scenario, teachers recognize a student as gifted but, unable to teach at this level, they let the child learn independently. In the worst-case scenario, teachers fail to recognize a child as gifted and classify the child as unmotivated or even hostile.
[ Edited by Admin to comply with copyright laws. ]
Winner, E.
1996
Numerous studies confirm a sad finding: The most intellectually gifted students in the United States typically have little good to say about their schooling. Gifted children are usually bored and unengaged in school; they tend to be highly critical of their teachers, who they feel know less than they do, and they are often underachievers. In the best-case scenario, teachers recognize a student as gifted but, unable to teach at this level, they let the child learn independently. In the worst-case scenario, teachers fail to recognize a child as gifted and classify the child as unmotivated or even hostile.
[ Edited by Admin to comply with copyright laws. ]
Anonymous
01/04/2015 22:47
Subject: Re:What should Public schools do for your child if she reads 3 grades above ?
[i]Mathematically Gifted Students: How Can We Meet Their Needs?
Rotigel, J. & Fello
Gifted Child Today
Prufrock Press
Vol. 27, Issue 4, pp. 46-51
Fall 2004
This article discusses the identification of the characteristics of the gifted math student, how school districts comply with the child’s needs, and how teachers can learn the importance of differentiation of instruction.
Today, as usual, Mrs. Johnson began her 3rd-grade math class by reading aloud a thinking puzzle: Charlie, the dog, was tied to a 2-meter rope. His favorite ball was lying in the grass at least 10 yards away from him. He managed to grasp the ball easily. How did he manage to do this?
[ Edited by Admin to comply with copyright laws. ]
Rotigel, J. & Fello
Gifted Child Today
Prufrock Press
Vol. 27, Issue 4, pp. 46-51
Fall 2004
This article discusses the identification of the characteristics of the gifted math student, how school districts comply with the child’s needs, and how teachers can learn the importance of differentiation of instruction.
Today, as usual, Mrs. Johnson began her 3rd-grade math class by reading aloud a thinking puzzle: Charlie, the dog, was tied to a 2-meter rope. His favorite ball was lying in the grass at least 10 yards away from him. He managed to grasp the ball easily. How did he manage to do this?
[ Edited by Admin to comply with copyright laws. ]
Anonymous
01/04/2015 22:46
Subject: Re:What should Public schools do for your child if she reads 3 grades above ?
Trolling, advanced-learner hating PP, there's a ton of material out there about what it means to provide appropriate education for advanced learners....
[i]What it Means to Teach Gifted Learners Well
By Carol Ann Tomlinson, Ed.D, The University of Virginia
Some people suggest that gifted education is just sort of "fluffy" or enriching-gravy on the potatoes, perhaps, but not anything especially substantial or critical in the way of mental fare. Others propose that all gifted education is what's good for all students. Unfortunately, those two criticisms sometimes stem from observing classrooms where gifted learners are taught inappropriately.
[ Edited by Admin to comply with copyright laws. ]
[i]What it Means to Teach Gifted Learners Well
By Carol Ann Tomlinson, Ed.D, The University of Virginia
Some people suggest that gifted education is just sort of "fluffy" or enriching-gravy on the potatoes, perhaps, but not anything especially substantial or critical in the way of mental fare. Others propose that all gifted education is what's good for all students. Unfortunately, those two criticisms sometimes stem from observing classrooms where gifted learners are taught inappropriately.
[ Edited by Admin to comply with copyright laws. ]
Anonymous
01/04/2015 22:41
Subject: Re:What should Public schools do for your child if she reads 3 grades above ?
Anonymous wrote:So you've just admitted you're only here to troll and are only here to stir up shit and waste any opportunity of anyone actually having any kind of meaningful or productive dialogue.
LOL! Taking pleasure in pointing out the fallacy of your arguments isn't trolling. Besides, I've given you an incredible amount of useful information on what you need to do to be effective and successful in your arguments. The reason there hasn't been meaningful or productive dialogue is because you refuse repeated requests to back up your opinions with facts. I'd be happy to see what research is out there to support your position. With the exception of you, the parents of advanced learners on this thread indicated they don't have your problem. You insist that it is a problem but don't have anything to back you up. Looks like the problem is you.
Too late, you've already outed yourself as a troll, and again you're admitting you're just taking pleasure in arguing just for the sake of arguing. You in fact haven't actually pointed out any fallacies whatsoever, nor have you given any meaningful information, all you've done is post denial after denial, without any real factual basis or anything other than opinion behind your own denials. Might want to take a look in the mirror before criticizing others.
Anonymous
01/04/2015 22:18
Subject: Re:What should Public schools do for your child if she reads 3 grades above ?
Anonymous wrote:So you've just admitted you're only here to troll and are only here to stir up shit and waste any opportunity of anyone actually having any kind of meaningful or productive dialogue.
LOL! Taking pleasure in pointing out the fallacy of your arguments isn't trolling. Besides, I've given you an incredible amount of useful information on what you need to do to be effective and successful in your arguments. The reason there hasn't been meaningful or productive dialogue is because you refuse repeated requests to back up your opinions with facts. I'd be happy to see what research is out there to support your position. With the exception of you, the parents of advanced learners on this thread indicated they don't have your problem. You insist that it is a problem but don't have anything to back you up. Looks like the problem is you.
Troll
Anonymous
01/04/2015 19:57
Subject: Re:What should Public schools do for your child if she reads 3 grades above ?
So you've just admitted you're only here to troll and are only here to stir up shit and waste any opportunity of anyone actually having any kind of meaningful or productive dialogue.
LOL! Taking pleasure in pointing out the fallacy of your arguments isn't trolling. Besides, I've given you an incredible amount of useful information on what you need to do to be effective and successful in your arguments. The reason there hasn't been meaningful or productive dialogue is because you refuse repeated requests to back up your opinions with facts. I'd be happy to see what research is out there to support your position. With the exception of you, the parents of advanced learners on this thread indicated they don't have your problem. You insist that it is a problem but don't have anything to back you up. Looks like the problem is you.
Anonymous
01/04/2015 19:18
Subject: Re:What should Public schools do for your child if she reads 3 grades above ?
Anonymous wrote:Schools are supposed to meet students' academic needs. When students are wasting a large percentage of their time in school, their academic needs aren't being met.
You deflected didn't answer the question, what is your dog in this hunt? Why are you arguing so strenuously against it? Just to be contrarian, because your unwillingness to accept that it's a problem somehow magically makes the problem go away? Sorry, that doesn't cut it.
I didn't deflect, I just didn't answer it. I don't have any 'dog' in this. I just enjoy calling out ignorance and idiocy when I see it. So often we have to keep responses to stupid people. It's a unique sort of pleasure not to have to remain silent. Although, I have to say, the pleasure is wearing off with this particular thread because you just keep repeating the same things over and over as if that will make them true. If, in real life, you're carrying on about this like you are here, people think you're an idiot.
You're not going to get anywhere with the school or anyone else until and unless you can document need and impact. What you've spouted is insufficient. Being repetitive and emphatic doesn't prove anything. If you want people to take you seriously, start doing some research and drop the emotional responses.
Speaking of deflecting, you still haven't provided any names of all the specialists available to help SN parents
You haven't provided any statistics on the dropout rate for 'advanced' learners (yet claiming many do).
You haven't provided any statistics or research regarding the impact of not 'meeting the needs' of advanced learners.
Oh, if you're interested in actually doing something for your DC, you can search in the SN forum for recommendations for education consultants. They don't just work for kids needing IEPs. They also work for parent with 'advanced' learners. Otherwise, you're just spinning your wheels and talking out your ass.
So you've just admitted you're only here to troll and are only here to stir up shit and waste any opportunity of anyone actually having any kind of meaningful or productive dialogue.
Anonymous
01/04/2015 18:45
Subject: Re:What should Public schools do for your child if she reads 3 grades above ?
Schools are supposed to meet students' academic needs. When students are wasting a large percentage of their time in school, their academic needs aren't being met.
You deflected didn't answer the question, what is your dog in this hunt? Why are you arguing so strenuously against it? Just to be contrarian, because your unwillingness to accept that it's a problem somehow magically makes the problem go away? Sorry, that doesn't cut it.
I didn't deflect, I just didn't answer it. I don't have any 'dog' in this. I just enjoy calling out ignorance and idiocy when I see it. So often we have to keep responses to stupid people. It's a unique sort of pleasure not to have to remain silent. Although, I have to say, the pleasure is wearing off with this particular thread because you just keep repeating the same things over and over as if that will make them true. If, in real life, you're carrying on about this like you are here, people think you're an idiot.
You're not going to get anywhere with the school or anyone else until and unless you can document need and impact. What you've spouted is insufficient. Being repetitive and emphatic doesn't prove anything. If you want people to take you seriously, start doing some research and drop the emotional responses.
Speaking of deflecting, you still haven't provided any names of all the specialists available to help SN parents
You haven't provided any statistics on the dropout rate for 'advanced' learners (yet claiming many do).
You haven't provided any statistics or research regarding the impact of not 'meeting the needs' of advanced learners.
Oh, if you're interested in actually doing something for your DC, you can search in the SN forum for recommendations for education consultants. They don't just work for kids needing IEPs. They also work for parent with 'advanced' learners. Otherwise, you're just spinning your wheels and talking out your ass.
Anonymous
01/04/2015 16:51
Subject: Re:What should Public schools do for your child if she reads 3 grades above ?
This thread seems to be going in several tracks. I don't think reading 3 grade levels ahead in and of itself constitutes a G&T need but I definitely think there should be supports appropriate to their level. Differentiation can be done to a limited extent by really good teacher, but more ideally there would be subject-oriented ability grouping (for example a student might be ahead in math, but behind in reading), to support students at a level appropriate to where they are. In particular, students who are lagging behind would get focused remedial help to get them up to grade level. But students who are ahead, would not be left to stagnate waiting for everyone else to catch up.
There are always going to be outliers who are way above or way below the other kids--even in so called tracking.
Anonymous
01/04/2015 16:43
Subject: What should Public schools do for your child if she reads 3 grades above ?
This thread seems to be going in several tracks. I don't think reading 3 grade levels ahead in and of itself constitutes a G&T need but I definitely think there should be supports appropriate to their level. Differentiation can be done to a limited extent by really good teacher, but more ideally there would be subject-oriented ability grouping (for example a student might be ahead in math, but behind in reading), to support students at a level appropriate to where they are. In particular, students who are lagging behind would get focused remedial help to get them up to grade level. But students who are ahead, would not be left to stagnate waiting for everyone else to catch up.