Anonymous wrote:Not really. Been there done that. Enough information has been provided that you can research this further if it is truth you seek. If you're here to just argue against believers, you'll waste another five more pages here.

Right back atcha.

Not really. Been there done that. Enough information has been provided that you can research this further if it is truth you seek. If you're here to just argue against believers, you'll waste another five more pages here.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So the blind man saw a square and mistook it for a tram or are you saying he saw a tram and mistook it for a square? He clearly said " I saw a tram and it was an ordinary square tram." That a tram, in fact, existed outside his building is what is compelling, not that he described it as squarish." Trams are very boxy looking. He nailed it simply by identifying a tram. Sorry but it sure does look like you don't have a leg to stand on.

You really think he didn't know tram tracks and trams went by that building before his NDE? Or was he totally making it up and trams never have gone by the building? I think your leg is amputated if you think the man's testimony/story is earth shattering proof of heaven.

Oh for Gods sake, he was not at his house. He was in a hospital.

So your saying he went to a hospital far away from his house and knew nothing about what was near said hospital? Do you have proof of that?

Do you know whats around your hospital?

That was a stupid question to ask. No, I have never seen whats around the hospital closest to my home. Its about 40 minutes away and I am in good health.

Your question assumes all the thousands of people who had NDE were lying. Seriously, thousands of them? It makes no sense whatsoever to make that claim just because you can't understand it?

you mean like claiming to know there's an afterlife?

Cant you see the difference between their judgment about their OWN experience and YOUR interpretation of THEIR experience? Which do you think carries more weight? You judgment is as an outsider. You lack the experience of it and the knowledge about it, and to complicate your situation, you are a steadfast atheist who abhors anyone with an open mind towards an afterlife. Thus, you are least qualified to cast an opinion. Your opinion is irrelevant.

Ok, I'll answer this for you. NDEs are nothing more than lucid dreams. We all have had dreams and thus have experience and knowledge of them. So no one is an outsider. And if you don't believe NDEs are dreams read this article. http://www.livescience.com/19106-death-experiences-lucid-dreams.html

Now lets here your counter answer/excuse to that.

The answer to this has already been provided. Numerous times, in fact. Did you just jump into this thread without reading through it?

People born blind have NDEs where they can describe things that are around them that they have never seen before. NDE'ers can identify deceased relatives they never knew about. NDE'ers can accurately state details of conversations of people in other rooms. All this happened while they were dead. So is this different from lucid dreams? I'd say so.

Yes, they are the same as a lucid dream. The only evidence you gave is of a single youtube testimony. And if you have been reading this thread there have been many discrepancies and holes pointed out in that testimony. While you seem to just be repeating the same thing over and over again. Which even if you say it a thousand times, doesn't make it any truer or answer the many questions rebuttals given.

So I expect you will simply repeat again.

PP, start with calling the researchers of the Lancet article, Mary Neal, and a few atheists who posted their stories. Research it yourself.

As I thought, you have no other facts to offer. Just continuing to repeat yourself. You want to use science to support your belief in an after life. Yet you have supplied no scientific support for your belief only an unscientific testimonies. Perhaps it is you who needs to do more research and report back to us "scientific" studies supporting your hypothesis.

If your going to invoke science then do it properly. Don't try and use personal accounts as science. If you do that than you must believe in big foot, the loch ness monster, Yetis and Greek Gods. After all, there are thousands of personal testimonies to all those creatures.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There are both believers and atheist who think they know the answers. There are people on both sides who admit that they don't know, but believe God does or does not exist. And there are people who just don't know (and perhaps don't care). I'm fine with those who are honest enough to admit what they don't know. Those on either side who are so sure of their beliefs that they try to proselytize leave me cold.

Honestly, I couldn't care less if atheists believe. I feel sorry for them and I pray for their guidance (sorry if that sounds condescending but I do feel badly for them). But it irks me that they mock believers. I believe science is beginning to show the possible existence of an afterlife. But do I need that to believe? No, not at all. I just know with every fiber of my being that God exists.

I'm glad for our happiness and I commend you for being perceptive enough to realize I would think you are condescending.

I can live with myself.

I've been married so long I'm not sure I could live alone. But more power to you.

PS - I meant to say "your happiness", but I'm happy too, so perhaps it was a Freudian slip.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There are both believers and atheist who think they know the answers. There are people on both sides who admit that they don't know, but believe God does or does not exist. And there are people who just don't know (and perhaps don't care). I'm fine with those who are honest enough to admit what they don't know. Those on either side who are so sure of their beliefs that they try to proselytize leave me cold.

Honestly, I couldn't care less if atheists believe. I feel sorry for them and I pray for their guidance (sorry if that sounds condescending but I do feel badly for them). But it irks me that they mock believers. I believe science is beginning to show the possible existence of an afterlife. But do I need that to believe? No, not at all. I just know with every fiber of my being that God exists.

I'm glad for our happiness and I commend you for being perceptive enough to realize I would think you are condescending.

I can live with myself.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So the blind man saw a square and mistook it for a tram or are you saying he saw a tram and mistook it for a square? He clearly said " I saw a tram and it was an ordinary square tram." That a tram, in fact, existed outside his building is what is compelling, not that he described it as squarish." Trams are very boxy looking. He nailed it simply by identifying a tram. Sorry but it sure does look like you don't have a leg to stand on.

You really think he didn't know tram tracks and trams went by that building before his NDE? Or was he totally making it up and trams never have gone by the building? I think your leg is amputated if you think the man's testimony/story is earth shattering proof of heaven.

Oh for Gods sake, he was not at his house. He was in a hospital.

So your saying he went to a hospital far away from his house and knew nothing about what was near said hospital? Do you have proof of that?

Do you know whats around your hospital?

That was a stupid question to ask. No, I have never seen whats around the hospital closest to my home. Its about 40 minutes away and I am in good health.

Your question assumes all the thousands of people who had NDE were lying. Seriously, thousands of them? It makes no sense whatsoever to make that claim just because you can't understand it?

you mean like claiming to know there's an afterlife?

Cant you see the difference between their judgment about their OWN experience and YOUR interpretation of THEIR experience? Which do you think carries more weight? You judgment is as an outsider. You lack the experience of it and the knowledge about it, and to complicate your situation, you are a steadfast atheist who abhors anyone with an open mind towards an afterlife. Thus, you are least qualified to cast an opinion. Your opinion is irrelevant.

Ok, I'll answer this for you. NDEs are nothing more than lucid dreams. We all have had dreams and thus have experience and knowledge of them. So no one is an outsider. And if you don't believe NDEs are dreams read this article. http://www.livescience.com/19106-death-experiences-lucid-dreams.html

Now lets here your counter answer/excuse to that.

The answer to this has already been provided. Numerous times, in fact. Did you just jump into this thread without reading through it?

People born blind have NDEs where they can describe things that are around them that they have never seen before. NDE'ers can identify deceased relatives they never knew about. NDE'ers can accurately state details of conversations of people in other rooms. All this happened while they were dead. So is this different from lucid dreams? I'd say so.

Yes, they are the same as a lucid dream. The only evidence you gave is of a single youtube testimony. And if you have been reading this thread there have been many discrepancies and holes pointed out in that testimony. While you seem to just be repeating the same thing over and over again. Which even if you say it a thousand times, doesn't make it any truer or answer the many questions rebuttals given.

So I expect you will simply repeat again.

PP, start with calling the researchers of the Lancet article, Mary Neal, and a few atheists who posted their stories. Research it yourself.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There are both believers and atheist who think they know the answers. There are people on both sides who admit that they don't know, but believe God does or does not exist. And there are people who just don't know (and perhaps don't care). I'm fine with those who are honest enough to admit what they don't know. Those on either side who are so sure of their beliefs that they try to proselytize leave me cold.

Honestly, I couldn't care less if atheists believe. I feel sorry for them and I pray for their guidance (sorry if that sounds condescending but I do feel badly for them). But it irks me that they mock believers. I believe science is beginning to show the possible existence of an afterlife. But do I need that to believe? No, not at all. I just know with every fiber of my being that God exists.

I'm glad for our happiness and I commend you for being perceptive enough to realize I would think you are condescending.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The one and only true answer is this:

Nobody knows.

That's it. That's the one and only truth. And then you can add this:

"Nobody knows, who and what has souls - but I believe X and X and X has a soul."

Because religion is belief. Not knowing. So depending on a person's religion and belief they will give you different answers.

+1

There are both believers and atheist who think they know the answers. There are people on both sides who admit that they don't know, but believe God does or does not exist. And there are people who just don't know (and perhaps don't care). I'm fine with those who are honest enough to admit what they don't know. Those on either side who are so sure of their beliefs that they try to proselytize leave me cold.

Honestly, I couldn't care less if atheists believe. I feel sorry for them and I pray for their guidance (sorry if that sounds condescending but I do feel badly for them). But it irks me that they mock believers. I believe science is beginning to show the possible existence of an afterlife. But do I need that to believe? No, not at all. I just know with every fiber of my being that God exists.

what does he look like?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So the blind man saw a square and mistook it for a tram or are you saying he saw a tram and mistook it for a square? He clearly said " I saw a tram and it was an ordinary square tram." That a tram, in fact, existed outside his building is what is compelling, not that he described it as squarish." Trams are very boxy looking. He nailed it simply by identifying a tram. Sorry but it sure does look like you don't have a leg to stand on.

You really think he didn't know tram tracks and trams went by that building before his NDE? Or was he totally making it up and trams never have gone by the building? I think your leg is amputated if you think the man's testimony/story is earth shattering proof of heaven.

Oh for Gods sake, he was not at his house. He was in a hospital.

So your saying he went to a hospital far away from his house and knew nothing about what was near said hospital? Do you have proof of that?

Do you know whats around your hospital?

That was a stupid question to ask. No, I have never seen whats around the hospital closest to my home. Its about 40 minutes away and I am in good health.

Your question assumes all the thousands of people who had NDE were lying. Seriously, thousands of them? It makes no sense whatsoever to make that claim just because you can't understand it?

you mean like claiming to know there's an afterlife?

Cant you see the difference between their judgment about their OWN experience and YOUR interpretation of THEIR experience? Which do you think carries more weight? You judgment is as an outsider. You lack the experience of it and the knowledge about it, and to complicate your situation, you are a steadfast atheist who abhors anyone with an open mind towards an afterlife. Thus, you are least qualified to cast an opinion. Your opinion is irrelevant.

Ok, I'll answer this for you. NDEs are nothing more than lucid dreams. We all have had dreams and thus have experience and knowledge of them. So no one is an outsider. And if you don't believe NDEs are dreams read this article. http://www.livescience.com/19106-death-experiences-lucid-dreams.html

Now lets here your counter answer/excuse to that.

The answer to this has already been provided. Numerous times, in fact. Did you just jump into this thread without reading through it?

People born blind have NDEs where they can describe things that are around them that they have never seen before. NDE'ers can identify deceased relatives they never knew about. NDE'ers can accurately state details of conversations of people in other rooms. All this happened while they were dead. So is this different from lucid dreams? I'd say so.

Yes, they are the same as a lucid dream. The only evidence you gave is of a single youtube testimony. And if you have been reading this thread there have been many discrepancies and holes pointed out in that testimony. While you seem to just be repeating the same thing over and over again. Which even if you say it a thousand times, doesn't make it any truer or answer the many questions rebuttals given.

So I expect you will simply repeat again.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The one and only true answer is this:

Nobody knows.

That's it. That's the one and only truth. And then you can add this:

"Nobody knows, who and what has souls - but I believe X and X and X has a soul."

Because religion is belief. Not knowing. So depending on a person's religion and belief they will give you different answers.

+1

There are both believers and atheist who think they know the answers. There are people on both sides who admit that they don't know, but believe God does or does not exist. And there are people who just don't know (and perhaps don't care). I'm fine with those who are honest enough to admit what they don't know. Those on either side who are so sure of their beliefs that they try to proselytize leave me cold.

Honestly, I couldn't care less if atheists believe. I feel sorry for them and I pray for their guidance (sorry if that sounds condescending but I do feel badly for them). But it irks me that they mock believers. I believe science is beginning to show the possible existence of an afterlife. But do I need that to believe? No, not at all. I just know with every fiber of my being that God exists.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So the blind man saw a square and mistook it for a tram or are you saying he saw a tram and mistook it for a square? He clearly said " I saw a tram and it was an ordinary square tram." That a tram, in fact, existed outside his building is what is compelling, not that he described it as squarish." Trams are very boxy looking. He nailed it simply by identifying a tram. Sorry but it sure does look like you don't have a leg to stand on.

You really think he didn't know tram tracks and trams went by that building before his NDE? Or was he totally making it up and trams never have gone by the building? I think your leg is amputated if you think the man's testimony/story is earth shattering proof of heaven.

Oh for Gods sake, he was not at his house. He was in a hospital.

So your saying he went to a hospital far away from his house and knew nothing about what was near said hospital? Do you have proof of that?

Do you know whats around your hospital?

That was a stupid question to ask. No, I have never seen whats around the hospital closest to my home. Its about 40 minutes away and I am in good health.

Your question assumes all the thousands of people who had NDE were lying. Seriously, thousands of them? It makes no sense whatsoever to make that claim just because you can't understand it?

you mean like claiming to know there's an afterlife?

Cant you see the difference between their judgment about their OWN experience and YOUR interpretation of THEIR experience? Which do you think carries more weight? You judgment is as an outsider. You lack the experience of it and the knowledge about it, and to complicate your situation, you are a steadfast atheist who abhors anyone with an open mind towards an afterlife. Thus, you are least qualified to cast an opinion. Your opinion is irrelevant.

Ok, I'll answer this for you. NDEs are nothing more than lucid dreams. We all have had dreams and thus have experience and knowledge of them. So no one is an outsider. And if you don't believe NDEs are dreams read this article. http://www.livescience.com/19106-death-experiences-lucid-dreams.html

Now lets here your counter answer/excuse to that.

The answer to this has already been provided. Numerous times, in fact. Did you just jump into this thread without reading through it?

People born blind have NDEs where they can describe things that are around them that they have never seen before. NDE'ers can identify deceased relatives they never knew about. NDE'ers can accurately state details of conversations of people in other rooms. All this happened while they were dead. So is this different from lucid dreams? I'd say so.

Anonymous wrote:The one and only true answer is this:

Nobody knows.

That's it. That's the one and only truth. And then you can add this:

"Nobody knows, who and what has souls - but I believe X and X and X has a soul."

Because religion is belief. Not knowing. So depending on a person's religion and belief they will give you different answers.

+1

There are both believers and atheist who think they know the answers. There are people on both sides who admit that they don't know, but believe God does or does not exist. And there are people who just don't know (and perhaps don't care). I'm fine with those who are honest enough to admit what they don't know. Those on either side who are so sure of their beliefs that they try to proselytize leave me cold.

The one and only true answer is this:

Nobody knows.

That's it. That's the one and only truth. And then you can add this:

"Nobody knows, who and what has souls - but I believe X and X and X has a soul."

Because religion is belief. Not knowing. So depending on a person's religion and belief they will give you different answers.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So the blind man saw a square and mistook it for a tram or are you saying he saw a tram and mistook it for a square? He clearly said " I saw a tram and it was an ordinary square tram." That a tram, in fact, existed outside his building is what is compelling, not that he described it as squarish." Trams are very boxy looking. He nailed it simply by identifying a tram. Sorry but it sure does look like you don't have a leg to stand on.

You really think he didn't know tram tracks and trams went by that building before his NDE? Or was he totally making it up and trams never have gone by the building? I think your leg is amputated if you think the man's testimony/story is earth shattering proof of heaven.

Oh for Gods sake, he was not at his house. He was in a hospital.

So your saying he went to a hospital far away from his house and knew nothing about what was near said hospital? Do you have proof of that?

Do you know whats around your hospital?

That was a stupid question to ask. No, I have never seen whats around the hospital closest to my home. Its about 40 minutes away and I am in good health.

Your question assumes all the thousands of people who had NDE were lying. Seriously, thousands of them? It makes no sense whatsoever to make that claim just because you can't understand it?

you mean like claiming to know there's an afterlife?

Cant you see the difference between their judgment about their OWN experience and YOUR interpretation of THEIR experience? Which do you think carries more weight? You judgment is as an outsider. You lack the experience of it and the knowledge about it, and to complicate your situation, you are a steadfast atheist who abhors anyone with an open mind towards an afterlife. Thus, you are least qualified to cast an opinion. Your opinion is irrelevant.

Ok, I'll answer this for you. NDEs are nothing more than lucid dreams. We all have had dreams and thus have experience and knowledge of them. So no one is an outsider. And if you don't believe NDEs are dreams read this article. http://www.livescience.com/19106-death-experiences-lucid-dreams.html

Now lets here your counter answer/excuse to that.

Anonymous wrote:"Your opinion is irrelevant" at the exact moment it contradicts anecdotal experiences from a variety of unnamed and unverified sources.

I love it!

Atheists don't abhor people with open minds. They abhor gullible people who believe in incredible things without the least shred of evidence.

Here's what is interesting, that you ignored the entire comment to focus on the irrelevant comment. Can you answer the question though? I would love that.