Anonymous
Post 09/11/2014 08:26     Subject: What does Islam say about concubines?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:

Here:
"Slave rights to freedom

Islamic law allows slaves to get their freedom under certain circumstances. It divides slaves with the right to freedom into various classes:

The mukatab: a slave who has the contractual right to buy their freedom over time
The mudabbar: a slave who will be freed when their owner dies (this might not happen if the owner's estate was too small)
The umm walid, a female slave who had borne her owner a child" from http://www.bbc.co.uk/religion/religions/islam/history/slavery_1.shtml


What a liar you are. The source you posted says nothing about concubines becoming free women if they got pregnant. Quite on the contrary, this is what the source YOU POSTED says:

Concubinage was not unique to Islam; the Bible records that King Solomon and King David both had concubines, and it is recorded in other cultures too.

Being a concubine did have some benefits: if a slave woman gave birth to her owner's child, her status improved dramatically - she could not be sold or given away, and when her owner died she became free. The child was also free and would inherit from their father as any other children.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/religion/religions/islam/history/slavery_1.shtml#h7


So what? Show me whole societies of people who still live this way today.


The argument wasn't that there are whole societies of people who still live this way today. The claim was that Islam requires that a pregnant concubine is freed. I have conclusively showed that it was false as the requirement was that she be freed only after her owner's death, and not upon pregnancy, as the poster claimed.


Hold on. This "so what" looks like the nearest thing we have to an acknowledgment from OP that she's ever wrong
Anonymous
Post 09/09/2014 19:33     Subject: What does Islam say about concubines?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:


Here:
"Slave rights to freedom

Islamic law allows slaves to get their freedom under certain circumstances. It divides slaves with the right to freedom into various classes:

The mukatab: a slave who has the contractual right to buy their freedom over time
The mudabbar: a slave who will be freed when their owner dies (this might not happen if the owner's estate was too small)
The umm walid, a female slave who had borne her owner a child" from http://www.bbc.co.uk/religion/religions/islam/history/slavery_1.shtml


What a liar you are. The source you posted says nothing about concubines becoming free women if they got pregnant. Quite on the contrary, this is what the source YOU POSTED says:

Concubinage was not unique to Islam; the Bible records that King Solomon and King David both had concubines, and it is recorded in other cultures too.

Being a concubine did have some benefits: if a slave woman gave birth to her owner's child, her status improved dramatically - she could not be sold or given away, and when her owner died she became free. The child was also free and would inherit from their father as any other children.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/religion/religions/islam/history/slavery_1.shtml#h7


So what? Show me whole societies of people who still live this way today.

The argument wasn't that there are whole societies of people who still live this way today. The claim was that Islam requires that a pregnant concubine is freed. I have conclusively showed that it was false as the requirement was that she be freed only after her owner's death, and not upon pregnancy, as the poster claimed.
Anonymous
Post 09/09/2014 19:14     Subject: What does Islam say about concubines?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:


Here:
"Slave rights to freedom

Islamic law allows slaves to get their freedom under certain circumstances. It divides slaves with the right to freedom into various classes:

The mukatab: a slave who has the contractual right to buy their freedom over time
The mudabbar: a slave who will be freed when their owner dies (this might not happen if the owner's estate was too small)
The umm walid, a female slave who had borne her owner a child" from http://www.bbc.co.uk/religion/religions/islam/history/slavery_1.shtml


What a liar you are. The source you posted says nothing about concubines becoming free women if they got pregnant. Quite on the contrary, this is what the source YOU POSTED says:

Concubinage was not unique to Islam; the Bible records that King Solomon and King David both had concubines, and it is recorded in other cultures too.

Being a concubine did have some benefits: if a slave woman gave birth to her owner's child, her status improved dramatically - she could not be sold or given away, and when her owner died she became free. The child was also free and would inherit from their father as any other children.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/religion/religions/islam/history/slavery_1.shtml#h7


So what? Show me whole societies of people who still live this way today.
Anonymous
Post 09/09/2014 16:42     Subject: What does Islam say about concubines?
Anonymous wrote:


Here:
"Slave rights to freedom

Islamic law allows slaves to get their freedom under certain circumstances. It divides slaves with the right to freedom into various classes:

The mukatab: a slave who has the contractual right to buy their freedom over time
The mudabbar: a slave who will be freed when their owner dies (this might not happen if the owner's estate was too small)
The umm walid, a female slave who had borne her owner a child" from http://www.bbc.co.uk/religion/religions/islam/history/slavery_1.shtml


What a liar you are. The source you posted says nothing about concubines becoming free women if they got pregnant. Quite on the contrary, this is what the source YOU POSTED says:

Concubinage was not unique to Islam; the Bible records that King Solomon and King David both had concubines, and it is recorded in other cultures too.

Being a concubine did have some benefits: if a slave woman gave birth to her owner's child, her status improved dramatically - she could not be sold or given away, and when her owner died she became free. The child was also free and would inherit from their father as any other children.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/religion/religions/islam/history/slavery_1.shtml#h7
Anonymous
Post 09/09/2014 16:33     Subject: What does Islam say about concubines?
OP, these threads are not working for you. Under no circumstance should you follow up 16:14 with a new thread about Muslim Wives Are Happiest or something.
Anonymous
Post 09/09/2014 16:14     Subject: What does Islam say about concubines?
Anonymous wrote:

Wives in almost all societies had nothing to say about having sex with their husbands, either. Let's not hold Christianity up as a model of virtue there...


I suppose this could be the segue-way into what the various scriptural, theological and societal sources say on the subject of how to treat your wife. But this is a thread on concubines. So let's not bother, shall we?
Anonymous
Post 09/09/2014 14:37     Subject: What does Islam say about concubines?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:

But in Islam, in those days when slaves were often abused, God required slaves be treated with respect. They had to be cared for the same way a wife would be cared for. So essentially she was very similar to a wife ( think Abraham and Hagar). If your slave asks not to be used in prostitution so you can earn an income, God required masters to respect that. The respect God required masters to give slaves was extraordinary in those times.

But did masters have sex with slaves and did God permit it? Yes. Very common in those times in all major religions.

No. not like a wife at all.


+1. Not like a wife if the concubine has no choice about having sex with her owner.

Not like Christianity, which forbids concubines, per all the posts on the previous page of this thread.


Wives in almost all societies had nothing to say about having sex with their husbands, either. Let's not hold Christianity up as a model of virtue there...
Anonymous
Post 09/09/2014 14:34     Subject: What does Islam say about concubines?
Anonymous wrote:

But in Islam, in those days when slaves were often abused, God required slaves be treated with respect. They had to be cared for the same way a wife would be cared for. So essentially she was very similar to a wife ( think Abraham and Hagar). If your slave asks not to be used in prostitution so you can earn an income, God required masters to respect that. The respect God required masters to give slaves was extraordinary in those times.

But did masters have sex with slaves and did God permit it? Yes. Very common in those times in all major religions.

No. not like a wife at all.


+1. Not like a wife if the concubine has no choice about having sex with her owner.

Not like Christianity, which forbids concubines, per all the posts on the previous page of this thread.
Anonymous
Post 09/09/2014 13:59     Subject: What does Islam say about concubines?
Anonymous wrote:Slavery was common among all people throughout history. The Quran required slaves to be treated with respect. It encouraged the release of slaves and God promised the atonement of sins if a slave was freed. It encouraged masters to marry their (believing) female slaves or to get them married. In this way, Islam slowly began to eradicate slavery.[u]

Remember - the Bible too speaks about slaves and lays down laws regarding the treatment of slaves.
“If a man beats his male or female slave with a rod and the slave dies as a direct result, he must be punished, but he is not to be punished if the slave gets up after a day or two, since the slave is his property.”– [Exodus 21:20-21]

But in Islam, in those days when slaves were often abused, God required slaves be treated with respect. They had to be cared for the same way a wife would be cared for. So essentially she was very similar to a wife ( think Abraham and Hagar). If your slave asks not to be used in prostitution so you can earn an income, God required masters to respect that. The respect God required masters to give slaves was extraordinary in those times.

But did masters have sex with slaves and did God permit it? Yes. Very common in those times in all major religions.

No. not like a wife at all.
Anonymous
Post 09/09/2014 13:46     Subject: What does Islam say about concubines?
Anonymous wrote:Slavery was common among all people throughout history. The Quran required slaves to be treated with respect. It encouraged the release of slaves and God promised the atonement of sins if a slave was freed. It encouraged masters to marry their (believing) female slaves or to get them married. In this way, Islam slowly began to eradicate slavery.[u]

Remember - the Bible too speaks about slaves and lays down laws regarding the treatment of slaves.
“If a man beats his male or female slave with a rod and the slave dies as a direct result, he must be punished, but he is not to be punished if the slave gets up after a day or two, since the slave is his property.”– [Exodus 21:20-21]

But in Islam, in those days when slaves were often abused, God required slaves be treated with respect. They had to be cared for the same way a wife would be cared for. So essentially she was very similar to a wife ( think Abraham and Hagar). If your slave asks not to be used in prostitution so you can earn an income, God required masters to respect that. The respect God required masters to give slaves was extraordinary in those times.

But did masters have sex with slaves and did God permit it? Yes. Very common in those times in all major religions.


Except slave-like conditions still exist today in many Muslim countries. The slaves are called women