Anonymous
08/12/2014 16:05
Subject: Re:I am an atheist, ask me anything.
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:It was actually a triple blind study....
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2802370/
I think NIH is pretty credible... Or should I say not "no good"
Not OP. Skimmed it. The authors mean that THE ACT OF praying or meditating can be beneficial for lowering stress, blood pressure, etc and by that means improve health. Not that a god is answering the prayers, pointing a magical finger down to heal the sick. How stupid are you??!
ETA that the well-known Cha study about praying improving IVF success has been debunked a decade ago. Cha was a Korean Reproductive Endocrinologist who faked that experiment to convince Christian Koreans that in vitro fertilization would be okay with their god.
I am sure there are fake and real studies about almost everything.
Anonymous
08/12/2014 16:04
Subject: Re:I am an atheist, ask me anything.
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:It was actually a triple blind study....
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2802370/
I think NIH is pretty credible... Or should I say not "no good"
Not OP. Skimmed it. The authors mean that THE ACT OF praying or meditating can be beneficial for lowering stress, blood pressure, etc and by that means improve health. Not that a god is answering the prayers, pointing a magical finger down to heal the sick. How stupid are you??!
No, the study is triple blind. Of course one praying is like meditation and has medical benefit. But if a person prays and the patient, the doctor and the prayer are "blind" your premise for positive results are not correct.
Anonymous
08/12/2014 16:04
Subject: Re:I am an atheist, ask me anything.
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:It was actually a triple blind study....
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2802370/
I think NIH is pretty credible... Or should I say not "no good"
Not OP. Skimmed it. The authors mean that THE ACT OF praying or meditating can be beneficial for lowering stress, blood pressure, etc and by that means improve health. Not that a god is answering the prayers, pointing a magical finger down to heal the sick. How stupid are you??!
ETA that the well-known Cha study about praying improving IVF success has been debunked a decade ago. Cha was a Korean Reproductive Endocrinologist who faked that experiment to convince Christian Koreans that in vitro fertilization would be okay with their god.
Anonymous
08/12/2014 16:04
Subject: Re:I am an atheist, ask me anything.
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:It was actually a triple blind study....
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2802370/
I think NIH is pretty credible... Or should I say not "no good"
Not OP. Skimmed it. The authors mean that THE ACT OF praying or meditating can be beneficial for lowering stress, blood pressure, etc and by that means improve health. Not that a god is answering the prayers, pointing a magical finger down to heal the sick. How stupid are you??!
If you had read it thoroughly, you would see that they also reviewed whether prayers by others would result in improved outcomes; i.e. the magical finger. Results showed that prayer by others was helpful, not helpful or detrimental, depending on whether you were a human or a bushbaby and what kind of ailment you had.
Anonymous
08/12/2014 15:57
Subject: Re:I am an atheist, ask me anything.
Anonymous wrote:OP, how do you explain scientific studies that show prayer helps people heal.
Prayer is basically meditation. Meditation helps people heal, because it calms you, helps you get your thoughts together, and helps relieve stress. Prayer/mediation help people, because it's all mental (and you can't neglect the mind, in terms of health). Doesn't mean there's some intervening "higher power," but there's some truth to "it's all in your head" (which can be a good thing)
Anonymous
08/12/2014 15:57
Subject: Re:I am an atheist, ask me anything.
Anonymous wrote:It was actually a triple blind study....
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2802370/
I think NIH is pretty credible... Or should I say not "no good"
Not OP. Skimmed it. The authors mean that THE ACT OF praying or meditating can be beneficial for lowering stress, blood pressure, etc and by that means improve health. Not that a god is answering the prayers, pointing a magical finger down to heal the sick. How stupid are you??!
Anonymous
08/12/2014 15:54
Subject: Re:I am an atheist, ask me anything.
Anonymous wrote:OP, how do you explain scientific studies that show prayer helps people heal.
OP here, BTW, the studies might be biased in that the prayer group might have better support networks around them (these people often come in large groups). That might explain the better outcome.
There could be some kind of neuroendocrine effect of prayer that could help one heal. ??
FruminousBandersnatch
08/12/2014 15:51
Subject: Re:I am an atheist, ask me anything.
Anonymous wrote:It was actually a triple blind study....
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2802370/
I think NIH is pretty credible... Or should I say not "no good"
I love the "questions raised" section of the NIH study:
We present some of the unsettling questions that arise in these contexts; the questions are unsettling because they invite comparison with human parallels that devalue the concept of God, something that those who pray surely would not have considered.
1. If the number, duration and frequency of prayer are important or if the number of persons praying is important, does God, like a businessman, market boons based on the currency value of the prayers? Or, will God pay attention only if those who pray are sufficiently bothersome?
2. If the type of prayer is important, is God a bureaucrat who is more likely to consider petitions that appear in the prescribed forms?
3. If the addition of vows and sacrifices is important, is God somebody who can be flattered or bribed into granting a boon?
4. If the level of fervency or intensity is important, does God distinguish between “please”, “pretty please” and “pretty please with ribbons on it”?
5. If the practical content of and petitions in the prayer are important, how does God make decisions about what is and what is not a reasonable request?
6. If the faith or conviction of the persons who pray is important, does God value the beliefs of the petitioners more than the merits of the petitions?
7. If the personal characteristics and qualities of the persons who pray (or the persons who are being prayed for) are important, are some people more equal before God than other people? Religions portray God as being compassionate; what sort of compassion is displayed by the selective favoring of an experimental over a control group?
8. If the entity to which the prayer is directed is important, do different Gods have different portfolios? Are some Gods more approachable? Do some Gods ignore some prayers? If the religious affiliation of the person who prays is important, what becomes of the other religions of the world and those who follow such religions; will their prayers remain unanswered?
9. If the magnitude of response to the petitions is total, then all prayers should result in miraculous or near-miraculous benefits. This, clearly, almost never happens. Thus, does God work on percentages; that is, if the petition is for an elephant, does he sanction a mouse? Or, are his responses only subtle ones? If so, how does he choose on the outcome measure to improve?
Anonymous
08/12/2014 15:50
Subject: Re:I am an atheist, ask me anything.
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:OP, how do you explain scientific studies that show prayer helps people heal.
It might be true, but I will have to find another way to heal.
If you believe that then I would suggest that you pray when you want to heal, but also see a doctor.
BTW, how do you explain that atheists are less likely to commit crimes?[/quote]
This was OP
Anonymous
08/12/2014 15:50
Subject: I am an atheist, ask me anything.
Anonymous wrote:what are your thoughts on the Bible as a historical document(s)?
forget about Jesus Christ is/as God, but do you believe that there was a man names Jesus Christ, and perhaps inspired people "way back when?"
OP here. I think that some of it is interesting. Not interesting enough to capitivate me though.
Yes, I believe there was a man named Jesus and for some reason, he had a big impact on many people.
Not sure there was a Moses. I think there was a Mohammed.
Anonymous
08/12/2014 15:46
Subject: Re:I am an atheist, ask me anything.
Anonymous wrote:OP, how do you explain scientific studies that show prayer helps people heal.
It might be true, but I will have to find another way to heal.
If you believe that then I would suggest that you pray when you want to heal, but also see a doctor.
BTW, how do you explain that atheists are less likely to commit crimes?
Anonymous
08/12/2014 15:42
Subject: Re:I am an atheist, ask me anything.
It was actually a triple blind study....
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2802370/
I think NIH is pretty credible... Or should I say not "no good"
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2802370/
I think NIH is pretty credible... Or should I say not "no good"
Anonymous
08/12/2014 15:35
Subject: Re:I am an atheist, ask me anything.
Anonymous wrote:OP, how do you explain scientific studies that show prayer helps people heal.
It's a wash:
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2006/04/060403133554.htm
Anonymous
08/12/2014 15:33
Subject: Re:I am an atheist, ask me anything.
Anonymous wrote:OP, how do you explain scientific studies that show prayer helps people heal.
No good study has shown this. In fact, the best data shows the opposite. Patients who are prayed for and know it do worse that controls.
Anonymous
08/12/2014 14:59
Subject: Re:I am an atheist, ask me anything.
liamw wrote:Anonymous wrote:OP, how do you explain scientific studies that show prayer helps people heal.
As a Christian who does live by grace I will even concede to the psychological effect of prayer. It gos back to the saying "self fulfilling prophecy in come cases" Some people call this science, we call it faith.
The study is double blind though.