Anonymous
Post 08/03/2014 09:20     Subject: Re:Israel disgusts me.
takoma wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
There would have been no "good" place for an Israel since the whole idea is repulsive because it is so fascist.
Jewish people unfortunately have made enemies where ever they have gone. The US, Canada, and Britain are the only places they are safe, perhaps because these are large countries with big economies and Christians. Don't know, but no one in the US, Canada, or Britain is willing to carve out part of the country to give away. The Europeans I know that support Israel, do so because they want to keep Jews out of Europe.

Absolutely! They are as bad as all those women who make guys rape them.

I'm not in favor of Israel's policies either, but how do you get from there to describing antisemitism as "Jews have made enemies"?



The Jews are hated because they are mostly very sucessfull-people are jealous of them-bottom line. They took a shit peice of useless desert in the hostile Middle East and for 60 plus years have made so many advances there in technology, medicine, education and even their military (though the US helped fund that) etc......In 60 years their country (or the country they occupied) is top rate in so many ways-compare it to any of the barbaric and backward third world "civilizations" that have existed in that region for centuries. I am certain that if they had to any DCUMer would Choose to live in Israel over Syria or Iraq. Sort of like comparing Chevy Chase proper to Camden NJ.


Offensive on so many levels, but mostly a classic case of "with friends like these..."

It is interesting that the same types of arguments and logic are used by many supporters of Israel to justify Israel's policies towards the Palestinians. The anitsemitic card is used by the Israelis and its supporters to shut down any and all criticism of Israel. As a result the charge has lost a lot of its meaning.
Anonymous
Post 08/03/2014 09:15     Subject: Re:Israel disgusts me.
Anonymous wrote:What Israel needs to do is replace its current government and embrace a one-state democracy with the Palestinians. It has a shrinking window to do this. The world is turning against Israel very rapidly. The power of social media and social activism at the global level has been greatly underestimated by the Israeli leadership.


A one state will NEVER EVER work. In no time flat it will be overrun by Arabs who will outnumber the Jews very soon by sheer numbers alone. A two state is the only viable option for lasting peace. I do agree about the world turning against Israel which is unfortunate but true. The anti Israeli demonstrations are happening in record numbers because as you pointed out in part due to social media the world is getting a first hand and sometimes skewed look at the atrocities taking place. fair or not, the Israelis are getting crucified in the moral worldwide court. This is very difficult damage to undue. I never thought it could get this dire.
Anonymous
Post 08/03/2014 09:10     Subject: Re:Israel disgusts me.
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
takoma wrote:
Anonymous wrote:There would have been no "good" place for an Israel since the whole idea is repulsive because it is so fascist.
Jewish people unfortunately have made enemies where ever they have gone. The US, Canada, and Britain are the only places they are safe, perhaps because these are large countries with big economies and Christians. Don't know, but no one in the US, Canada, or Britain is willing to carve out part of the country to give away. The Europeans I know that support Israel, do so because they want to keep Jews out of Europe.

Absolutely! They are as bad as all those women who make guys rape them.

I'm not in favor of Israel's policies either, but how do you get from there to describing antisemitism as "Jews have made enemies"?



The Jews are hated because they are mostly very sucessfull-people are jealous of them-bottom line. They took a shit peice of useless desert in the hostile Middle East and for 60 plus years have made so many advances there in technology, medicine, education and even their military (though the US helped fund that) etc......In 60 years their country (or the country they occupied) is top rate in so many ways-compare it to any of the barbaric and backward third world "civilizations" that have existed in that region for centuries. I am certain that if they had to any DCUMer would Choose to live in Israel over Syria or Iraq. Sort of like comparing Chevy Chase proper to Camden NJ.


That was fertile land. The Jews were not always that sophisticated and the Muslims were not always backward. Muslims taught Jews and Christians math. And FWIW, all the progress could have occurred without the fascist Zionism. You don't have to be ruthless to develop a country.
BTW, would rather live in Cuba than the countries mentioned above.



So with your explanation the Jews advanced while the Muslims regressed?


Sorry, I did not mean it that way, but BAD governance has hurt Muslim culture. The bad governance might have been promoted by Western policy.
Anonymous
Post 08/03/2014 09:10     Subject: Israel disgusts me.
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Jeff, theses posts are seriously offensive. I can't imagine you being proud of what some of these threads have become. Not is there a line between anti-semitism and anti-Israel.


Not Jeff, of course, but I think there is a huge difference between anti-Semitism (and Arabs are semites by the way) and being anti-Israel (or critical of Israel). I have absolutely no problem with Jews and Judaism, but I have very strong objections to Israeli policy and American support of that policy.
I think the problem lies with separating American Jews, in this instance only, from their inextricable connection to Israel whether mentally or emotionally. If a Jewish person emigrated from Russia, most would unwittingly connect that person to Israel, not Russia.

With all the discord that Russia has caused in the Ukraine (and the world now), we are quick to hold harmless Russians living here for the sins of their government. There are numerous potential threats to world 'peace' going on right now especially the China/Japan island dispute that is escalating with potentially catastrophic results. Are we ready to start with anti-sentiments when the fighting starts which will directly impact America?

I would suggest being cautious about anti-semitic speech and writing and instead being anti-Israel POLICY versus anti-Israel.
Anonymous
Post 08/03/2014 09:09     Subject: Israel disgusts me.
As someone who at one time fully supported Israels desire to protect their land (but of course for Palestine to have theirs as well) I have switched gears and can no longer support them.

I am appalled at what both sides have done and to me they are both terrorists, not one better than the other. But to kill so many innocent children and women is unconscionable and unforgivable and for this i will not ever be able to look at Israel the same. They are heartless and ruthless and their the Palestinian lives are less valuable than the Jewish ones.

My brother lives in France and said it is very alarming what is happening right now with the antisemitism in France and we see it in Europe in general, their actions are creating undue tensions for the Jewish people. It is quite tragic.
Anonymous
Post 08/03/2014 08:55     Subject: Israel disgusts me.
jsteele wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Jeff, theses posts are seriously offensive. I can't imagine you being proud of what some of these threads have become. Not is there a line between anti-semitism and anti-Israel.


The post that was most egregious was handled pretty well by Takoma before I read it. I decided to let his rebuttal stand. But, again, if you want to bring my attention to a specific post, please use the "report" button. I'll see that more quickly and it will ensure that I am certain about which post you are concerned.


I agree. I think he put the poster in their place.

But what its this "not that there is a line between anti-semitism and anti-Israel". Of course there is. It is not anti-Jewish to disagree with Israel's foreign policy.
jsteele
Post 08/03/2014 08:54     Subject: Israel disgusts me.
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Jeff, theses posts are seriously offensive. I can't imagine you being proud of what some of these threads have become. Not is there a line between anti-semitism and anti-Israel.


Not Jeff, of course, but I think there is a huge difference between anti-Semitism (and Arabs are semites by the way) and being anti-Israel (or critical of Israel). I have absolutely no problem with Jews and Judaism, but I have very strong objections to Israeli policy and American support of that policy.


Arabs are Semites on the basis that they speak a Semitic language. but, anti-Semitism refers specifically to anti-Judiasim. Palestinians suffer from prejudices against them, but -- so far -- those prejudices don't have specific labels. I do think that is is all too common to use claims of anti-Semitism as a cop out in response to anti-Israel or even neutral attitudes. See the Don Lemon thread, for instance. There is a school of thought that if you criticize Israel, but cannot conclusively demonstrate that you have also criticized every other nation that has done anything bad, you are anti-Semitic. That just ignores human behavior. But, nevertheless, there are plenty of indisputable examples of anti-Semitism and we all need to combat that regardless of our position on the conflict.
Anonymous
Post 08/03/2014 08:53     Subject: Re:Israel disgusts me.
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
takoma wrote:
Anonymous wrote:There would have been no "good" place for an Israel since the whole idea is repulsive because it is so fascist.
Jewish people unfortunately have made enemies where ever they have gone. The US, Canada, and Britain are the only places they are safe, perhaps because these are large countries with big economies and Christians. Don't know, but no one in the US, Canada, or Britain is willing to carve out part of the country to give away. The Europeans I know that support Israel, do so because they want to keep Jews out of Europe.

Absolutely! They are as bad as all those women who make guys rape them.

I'm not in favor of Israel's policies either, but how do you get from there to describing antisemitism as "Jews have made enemies"?



The Jews are hated because they are mostly very sucessfull-people are jealous of them-bottom line. They took a shit peice of useless desert in the hostile Middle East and for 60 plus years have made so many advances there in technology, medicine, education and even their military (though the US helped fund that) etc......In 60 years their country (or the country they occupied) is top rate in so many ways-compare it to any of the barbaric and backward third world "civilizations" that have existed in that region for centuries. I am certain that if they had to any DCUMer would Choose to live in Israel over Syria or Iraq. Sort of like comparing Chevy Chase proper to Camden NJ.


Did your mom tell you the other kids picked on you because you were so smart? She was lying.


So much...anger.


At least I'm using words and not killing kids.
Anonymous
Post 08/03/2014 08:52     Subject: Israel disgusts me.
Anonymous wrote:
jsteele wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
jsteele wrote:
Anonymous wrote:You are debating merits of op eds? Do you know how many awful op eds are written in mainstream media (not just Arab media) against Israel? Not to mention the horrendous rhetoric for Arab leaders. I really don't see how an op ed (one person's opinion!) is cause for concern. Someone wrote asinine, so what. Terrible rhetoric comes daily from the Arab and European media and we don't say a peep.


We don't provide Arab governments $3+ billion a year or go on endlessly about having shared values with them. Any time that you want to start treating Israel the way Arab countries are treated, just let us know.

Actually, we do provide Arab countries military aid, including Qatar, who is funding Hamas.


Yes, pointing out something that is irrelevant to what I said is always a good tactic. "We don't provide Arab governments $3+ billion a year or go on endlessly about having shared values with them."

Again, anytime that you think Israel should be treated just like Arab countries, let us know.

Your post was about, in part, us not funding Arab countries with military aid. We do that. In fact, as of 2008, we provided Afghanistan and Iraq, respectively, $6 billion and $4 billion. That is more than we provided Israel. http://www.state.gov/documents/organization/80701.pdf


The people of Afghanistan aren't Arabs.
jsteele
Post 08/03/2014 08:48     Subject: Israel disgusts me.
Anonymous wrote:Jeff, theses posts are seriously offensive. I can't imagine you being proud of what some of these threads have become. Not is there a line between anti-semitism and anti-Israel.


The post that was most egregious was handled pretty well by Takoma before I read it. I decided to let his rebuttal stand. But, again, if you want to bring my attention to a specific post, please use the "report" button. I'll see that more quickly and it will ensure that I am certain about which post you are concerned.
Anonymous
Post 08/03/2014 08:47     Subject: Israel disgusts me.
Anonymous wrote:Jeff, theses posts are seriously offensive. I can't imagine you being proud of what some of these threads have become. Not is there a line between anti-semitism and anti-Israel.


Not Jeff, of course, but I think there is a huge difference between anti-Semitism (and Arabs are semites by the way) and being anti-Israel (or critical of Israel). I have absolutely no problem with Jews and Judaism, but I have very strong objections to Israeli policy and American support of that policy.
Anonymous
Post 08/03/2014 08:25     Subject: Israel disgusts me.
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:^^What kind of reaction were you expecting? Any Psychology 101 class will tell you when you keep picking at someone repeatedly (in this case Israel\Jews), you're going to get one very pissed off person. The reaction is quite normal regardless of whether pro-Israel or pro-Palestine.
This is in response to 00:13.




I think this is why they are behaving the way they are right now in this current conflict.
Anonymous
Post 08/03/2014 08:19     Subject: Israel disgusts me.
Anonymous wrote:^^What kind of reaction were you expecting? Any Psychology 101 class will tell you when you keep picking at someone repeatedly (in this case Israel\Jews), you're going to get one very pissed off person. The reaction is quite normal regardless of whether pro-Israel or pro-Palestine.
This is in response to 00:13.
Anonymous
Post 08/03/2014 07:32     Subject: Israel disgusts me.
Anonymous wrote:Jeff, theses posts are seriously offensive. I can't imagine you being proud of what some of these threads have become. Not is there a line between anti-semitism and anti-Israel.
II would like to see Palestinian freedoms but the line between anti-semitism and anti-Israel was erased long ago in this forum.
Anonymous
Post 08/03/2014 07:26     Subject: Israel disgusts me.
^^What kind of reaction were you expecting? Any Psychology 101 class will tell you when you keep picking at someone repeatedly (in this case Israel\Jews), you're going to get one very pissed off person. The reaction is quite normal regardless of whether pro-Israel or pro-Palestine.