Anonymous wrote:For those proposing test-in or partial test-in for this revamped Roosevelt, but realizing that will be politically challenging, how about lottery but must be proficient to stay?

I like the idea proposed earlier of a structured setup that has a special ed/remedial program, a general program, and an advanced academy. The general and advanced could have IB curriculums (maybe the first, if possible, but I don't know enough about it to say). I don't think a proposal that depends on kicking kids out would be an easy sale and I also have ethnical issues with it.

For those proposing test-in or partial test-in for this revamped Roosevelt, but realizing that will be politically challenging, how about lottery but must be proficient to stay?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
You're dodging the question: really, what's the purpose of the lottery proposal other than to threaten Wilson families? I don't get it.

Families that can't get into Wilson think it's unfair that they can't get into Wilson. Unless you live in-bounds for Wilson, or attended an elementary school that feeds a middle school that feeds Wilson, you currently have zero percent chance of being admitted. With a lottery that chance moves from zero to non-zero for those families.

The problem the task force has been stumped by is that when you have a limited number of seats at a desirable school there really isn't any defensible way of deciding who gets them and who doesn't. By "defensible" I mean a system where the outcome is accepted by people other than the winners.

What the lottery has going for it is that the current system doesn't work all that well for very many people. Roughly 75% of the seats in public education right now are assigned by lottery. If you're in that group it's simple math that going to 100% improves your chances of getting a quality seat. The current boundary system just doesn't have a large constituency.

Interesting. Then a number of stakeholders believe that going to a lottery system would leave the quality of the educational experience at Wilson unchanged. It wouldn't. Without Ward 3 families feeding directly into Wilson, the academics at Wilson would go into the dumpster pretty quick. This equation should be obvious, but obviously, it is not. I must admit I'm perplexed why people don't, or can't, see this reality.

I agree PP. How do people not see this? Do they think that Wilson's scores and desirability are all just because of a building and some faculty??

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
You're dodging the question: really, what's the purpose of the lottery proposal other than to threaten Wilson families? I don't get it.

Families that can't get into Wilson think it's unfair that they can't get into Wilson. Unless you live in-bounds for Wilson, or attended an elementary school that feeds a middle school that feeds Wilson, you currently have zero percent chance of being admitted. With a lottery that chance moves from zero to non-zero for those families.

The problem the task force has been stumped by is that when you have a limited number of seats at a desirable school there really isn't any defensible way of deciding who gets them and who doesn't. By "defensible" I mean a system where the outcome is accepted by people other than the winners.

What the lottery has going for it is that the current system doesn't work all that well for very many people. Roughly 75% of the seats in public education right now are assigned by lottery. If you're in that group it's simple math that going to 100% improves your chances of getting a quality seat. The current boundary system just doesn't have a large constituency.

Interesting. Then a number of stakeholders believe that going to a lottery system would leave the quality of the educational experience at Wilson unchanged. It wouldn't. Without Ward 3 families feeding directly into Wilson, the academics at Wilson would go into the dumpster pretty quick. This equation should be obvious, but obviously, it is not. I must admit I'm perplexed why people don't, or can't, see this reality.

The high-performing black kids absolutely needed access to an academic HS. But the single DCPS academic HS was purposely placed in a location that had very poor across-town transportation in 1980.

Was it consciously placed there to give access to high-performing black kids, or specifically to keep white kids out?

If white kids don't want to go to a school with a significant black population, how is it possible to know that it was simply the location that was prohibitive? Would the number of black kids filling Banneker be welcomed in a "safe" part of town?

This is an interesting conversation to have in context of the current situation at Hardy and Ellington. In this very thread, I sense a strong push to move OOB students at those schools back to the east side of town.

And cross town transportation is still bad, by the way. Some things never change - but the neighborhoods around Banneker and Roosevelt have changed a great deal.

Anonymous wrote:

Banneker was originally proposed for Capitol Hill, on the Blue/Orange metro line at the now-abandoned Hine Junior High space with excellent access to all of the city. It was located instead, as a conscious choice, in a location that was not anywhere near accessible to the enclaves of white families. The concern was that if it was easy to get to it would "flip" and become a white, academic HS.

You are really backwards on this.

White students who could get into a magnet school had privates open to them - and privates were more affordable. High achieving black students who didn't have the funds and couldn't get tuition assistance for privates had nothing but DCPS. The proximity to Howard University - a visible incentive to get to the next step - is the reason for Banneker's location.

The high-performing black kids absolutely needed access to an academic HS. But the single DCPS academic HS was purposely placed in a location that had very poor across-town transportation in 1980. And "across from Howard U" was not the same neighborhood then, and the major improvements in the neighborhood come only after the Green Line opened. While the private schools were less expensive in the 1980s, there were still plenty of kids from families that made the move to the suburbs because private schools were not affordable and the magnet school would have required bus travel and transfers in the ghetto.

A magnet school that was accessible via Metro would have attracted these students, as SWW did. There were plenty of white families who "couldn't get tuition assistance for privates" who left town because DCPS's academically rigorous HS was "closed" to them because transportation was a nightmare, with time and safety being two major concerns.

Location and transportation options factor in parental decisions of where to send one's kids. But so do school demographics, and few white families are willing to have their kid be "an only", which is why Banneker, even years after the Green Line opened has had very, very few white students.

It is really hard to attract white students to high schools that do not already have white students in their population. This is and will be a problem for any EoTP high school. Washington Latin did it by initially opening the middle school in a difficult to get to location two blocks west of the Washington National Cathedral (WoTP). They have moved EoTP since but they had seeded their diverse population early with their first class.

ultimately, we shouldn't be talking about "chances" of getting a good education (or "quality seat" - a euphemism I hate).

We should be talking about ways to provide a quality education to all the kids.

Anonymous wrote:
You're dodging the question: really, what's the purpose of the lottery proposal other than to threaten Wilson families? I don't get it.

Families that can't get into Wilson think it's unfair that they can't get into Wilson. Unless you live in-bounds for Wilson, or attended an elementary school that feeds a middle school that feeds Wilson, you currently have zero percent chance of being admitted. With a lottery that chance moves from zero to non-zero for those families.

The problem the task force has been stumped by is that when you have a limited number of seats at a desirable school there really isn't any defensible way of deciding who gets them and who doesn't. By "defensible" I mean a system where the outcome is accepted by people other than the winners.

What the lottery has going for it is that the current system doesn't work all that well for very many people. Roughly 75% of the seats in public education right now are assigned by lottery. If you're in that group it's simple math that going to 100% improves your chances of getting a quality seat. The current boundary system just doesn't have a large constituency.

For the new school, you might also pull in some respected, experienced teachers from private and parochial schools or even from the suburbs.

We're not talking Miracle teachers here -- they don't exist -- just people with solid reputations who would make parents feel more secure about making a move to a new school.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wilson parent here. Wilson is OK but no great shakes. Roosevelt would REALLY have to improve the curriculum and hire some very impressive new staff to make it an option that I or anyone I know would ever consider.

what about if some highly regarded wilson teachers and administrators were enticed to move over to Roosevelt.

So, let's hurt Wilson by dragging away successful educators? Doubt Wilson parents would like that much. Or the teachers being forced to move.

The word used was "enticed" not forced. Teachers can't be forced to move into any school -- if they could, the DCPS plan to place more "highly effective" teachers in "failing" schools would have been simple -- just move the teachers.

Teachers leave schools on their own all the time, just like any other employees -- enticed by what they perceive as a better situation somewhere else. And a school like Wilson wouldn't have any trouble getting other good teachers to come in. Current respected teachers at Wilson-- and other schools -- might move to a new school for the opportunity to start their own program, to have a better lab or other amenities, to work with a principal and staff they think will be a better fit, and for some, Roosevelt might be an easier commute.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wilson parent here. Wilson is OK but no great shakes. Roosevelt would REALLY have to improve the curriculum and hire some very impressive new staff to make it an option that I or anyone I know would ever consider.

what about if some highly regarded wilson teachers and administrators were enticed to move over to Roosevelt.

So, let's hurt Wilson by dragging away successful educators? Doubt Wilson parents would like that much. Or the teachers being forced to move.

It is a fact that Wilson faces an overcrowding problem. If the only solution you propose is to toss out everyone that doesn't live in Ward 3 -- leaving them with no viable high school option -- the solution you will end up with is a lottery. Which do you prefer, a lottery or losing a few teachers?

You're going to have a lottery to get into one high school in the entire city? Ridiculous. You do understand that a city-wide lottery would destroy Wilson as an academically proficient school, right? Somebody please tell me what the purpose of a city-wide lottery would be, it makes no sense whatsoever.

Right now people perceive that there is a small number of quality HS and MS seats. DCPS can either increase the number of quality seats or get caught in a political battle over how to distribute those few seats. This thread is about increasing the # of seats.

You're dodging the question: really, what's the purpose of the lottery proposal other than to threaten Wilson families? I don't get it.

Anonymous wrote:I live about as far west as you can get - close to Western avenue and would bypass Wilson for the opportunity for my kids to complete their IB diploma - if it has the same rigor as Deal. This is the one major gap I see that could attract families to the west. It is all about what is being offered. There is no option for DCPS kids to continue the IB program at the high school level other than Banneker (selective), I think Eastern (too far) or private school ($$$$). Wilson explored adding it but I think the idea has been abandoned.

good point. Roosevelt should go International Baccalaureate with lots of great AP classes and ..some shuttle buses from west side of the park.

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wilson parent here. Wilson is OK but no great shakes. Roosevelt would REALLY have to improve the curriculum and hire some very impressive new staff to make it an option that I or anyone I know would ever consider.

what about if some highly regarded wilson teachers and administrators were enticed to move over to Roosevelt.

So, let's hurt Wilson by dragging away successful educators? Doubt Wilson parents would like that much. Or the teachers being forced to move.

It is a fact that Wilson faces an overcrowding problem. If the only solution you propose is to toss out everyone that doesn't live in Ward 3 -- leaving them with no viable high school option -- the solution you will end up with is a lottery. Which do you prefer, a lottery or losing a few teachers?

You're going to have a lottery to get into one high school in the entire city? Ridiculous. You do understand that a city-wide lottery would destroy Wilson as an academically proficient school, right? Somebody please tell me what the purpose of a city-wide lottery would be, it makes no sense whatsoever.

Right now people perceive that there is a small number of quality HS and MS seats. DCPS can either increase the number of quality seats or get caught in a political battle over how to distribute those few seats. This thread is about increasing the # of seats.

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wilson parent here. Wilson is OK but no great shakes. Roosevelt would REALLY have to improve the curriculum and hire some very impressive new staff to make it an option that I or anyone I know would ever consider.

what about if some highly regarded wilson teachers and administrators were enticed to move over to Roosevelt.

So, let's hurt Wilson by dragging away successful educators? Doubt Wilson parents would like that much. Or the teachers being forced to move.

It is a fact that Wilson faces an overcrowding problem. If the only solution you propose is to toss out everyone that doesn't live in Ward 3 -- leaving them with no viable high school option -- the solution you will end up with is a lottery. Which do you prefer, a lottery or losing a few teachers?

You're going to have a lottery to get into one high school in the entire city? Ridiculous. You do understand that a city-wide lottery would destroy Wilson as an academically proficient school, right? Somebody please tell me what the purpose of a city-wide lottery would be, it makes no sense whatsoever.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wilson parent here. Wilson is OK but no great shakes. Roosevelt would REALLY have to improve the curriculum and hire some very impressive new staff to make it an option that I or anyone I know would ever consider.

what about if some highly regarded wilson teachers and administrators were enticed to move over to Roosevelt.

So, let's hurt Wilson by dragging away successful educators? Doubt Wilson parents would like that much. Or the teachers being forced to move.

It is a fact that Wilson faces an overcrowding problem. If the only solution you propose is to toss out everyone that doesn't live in Ward 3 -- leaving them with no viable high school option -- the solution you will end up with is a lottery. Which do you prefer, a lottery or losing a few teachers?