Anonymous wrote:My ancestors came here on Pan Am.

This is nothing to be proud of. It was a shitty, shitty airline.

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:AA here who is also a history professor. I have no probelm with anyone being proud of their history and lineage. My ancestors were slaves (we were able to trace back 1837) but post-slavery my kinfolks did some pretty awesome things (including a legislator during Reconstruction).

I think some of the problem is that people claim the positive parts of their lineage ("My family was on the Mayflower, isn't that cool?") but, at the same time, disclaim any negative apsects of that same lineage ("You can't blame me for the bad stuff our ancestors did - it was not my fault.") I am just saying that history is a positive and a negative story. Both should be ackowledged and told.

Thank you for being a voice of reason. This thread is so indicative of why we can't get anywhere with race relations in this country. People are too invested in being "right," regardless of which side they are on, than they are in having rational, intelligent, RESPECTFUL dialogue. I am white and I get why African Americans could be put off by the tone of OP's post. However, instead of "bitch bye" and all of the other nonsense, you might ask yourselves what your goal is in responding by being nasty. It is certainly not to educate or increase understanding. If you truly cared about changing people's minds or point of view, you'd try a little harder. So I'm led to believe that you don't want to be a part of the solution and would rather be a part of a continuing problem.

But hey, this is DCUM, where snark rules and where the unfortunate truth of what people really think and feel comes out. If DCUM is at all indicative of people across the country, then I am astounded and disheartened by how nasty many people truly are. It does not inspire much hope for our future.

I am AA and I totally agree with this sentiment.

+1

I do. What I can tell you is that if you're related to one Mayflower type, you're related to several, because after the first winter the survivors all intermarried!

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:AA here who is also a history professor. I have no probelm with anyone being proud of their history and lineage. My ancestors were slaves (we were able to trace back 1837) but post-slavery my kinfolks did some pretty awesome things (including a legislator during Reconstruction).

I think some of the problem is that people claim the positive parts of their lineage ("My family was on the Mayflower, isn't that cool?") but, at the same time, disclaim any negative apsects of that same lineage ("You can't blame me for the bad stuff our ancestors did - it was not my fault.") I am just saying that history is a positive and a negative story. Both should be ackowledged and told.

Thank you for being a voice of reason. This thread is so indicative of why we can't get anywhere with race relations in this country. People are too invested in being "right," regardless of which side they are on, than they are in having rational, intelligent, RESPECTFUL dialogue. I am white and I get why African Americans could be put off by the tone of OP's post. However, instead of "bitch bye" and all of the other nonsense, you might ask yourselves what your goal is in responding by being nasty. It is certainly not to educate or increase understanding. If you truly cared about changing people's minds or point of view, you'd try a little harder. So I'm led to believe that you don't want to be a part of the solution and would rather be a part of a continuing problem.

But hey, this is DCUM, where snark rules and where the unfortunate truth of what people really think and feel comes out. If DCUM is at all indicative of people across the country, then I am astounded and disheartened by how nasty many people truly are. It does not inspire much hope for our future.

I am AA and I totally agree with this sentiment.

The ghosts of the Mayflower are going to come back to haunt everyone who has been posting on various tangents. Get thee to yer own s/o post.

Anonymous wrote:3 direct ancestors of mine traveled on the mayflower; my mother's maiden name is the surname of one of them (so 8 generations of males carrying the name, then my mother). We have actually traced that genealogical line back to the 1400's England. I look forward to visiting the graveyard that still has some of those 600+ year old headstones.

So cool. Love it.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:AA here who is also a history professor. I have no probelm with anyone being proud of their history and lineage. My ancestors were slaves (we were able to trace back 1837) but post-slavery my kinfolks did some pretty awesome things (including a legislator during Reconstruction).

I think some of the problem is that people claim the positive parts of their lineage ("My family was on the Mayflower, isn't that cool?") but, at the same time, disclaim any negative apsects of that same lineage ("You can't blame me for the bad stuff our ancestors did - it was not my fault.") I am just saying that history is a positive and a negative story. Both should be ackowledged and told.

Thank you for being a voice of reason. This thread is so indicative of why we can't get anywhere with race relations in this country. People are too invested in being "right," regardless of which side they are on, than they are in having rational, intelligent, RESPECTFUL dialogue. I am white and I get why African Americans could be put off by the tone of OP's post. However, instead of "bitch bye" and all of the other nonsense, you might ask yourselves what your goal is in responding by being nasty. It is certainly not to educate or increase understanding. If you truly cared about changing people's minds or point of view, you'd try a little harder. So I'm led to believe that you don't want to be a part of the solution and would rather be a part of a continuing problem.

But hey, this is DCUM, where snark rules and where the unfortunate truth of what people really think and feel comes out. If DCUM is at all indicative of people across the country, then I am astounded and disheartened by how nasty many people truly are. It does not inspire much hope for our future.

This is my OP: A family member into researching our family history recently pieced together that we are related to a Mayflower passenger (not sure which one)...I think it's interesting that side of the family left Europe (mainly England) so long ago. Anyone else have family that came here on the Mayflower, or in the 17th century?

What is the "tone" someone could be offended by...and how is anything I said "denying" or "ignoring" the ugly side of colonialism, or slavery? I said it was interesting to know how long ago my family left Europe...that's all I said. I think I was just about as neutral as I could have been. I wasn't "rah rah my white ancestors were awesome!" If you could point specifically to what is offensive about my post that'd be great!

I mean all of you freaking your freak...when you talk about where your family originally came from are you careful to mention all the transgressions of that culture or people. I'm not talking about if you were writing a monograph on white colonialism...I'm talking if someone asked you...hey, when did your family come here? Well, on the Mayflower, and yes they did some terrible things and may have participated in the slave trade (or well they might not have, but other white people around them did, so they are guilty by association), and gave American Indians small pox and by extension I'm tainted. This is why I say...no matter who you are or where you come from...some of your people did bad things. I wasn't trying to ignore the bad things the Pilgrims did...by saying some distant relative may have been one of them. Aren't we all related if we go back far enough?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Oh boy, did one of the resident DCUM angries hijack this thread too? I'm a black man and I think it's cool to trace your ancestors back to historical events.

Ugh. Please STFU with your Stephen from Django ass.

I'm tired of the token blackies on this thread acting like they're the spokesperson for all of us. Lemme guess, just get over it right? At least they gave us our freedom and let us earn income.

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Anonymous wrote:that isn't the fault of anyone on this board

What isn't their fault, that they celebrate and revere people who owned people, stold other people's lznd and spread disease and acted like their very presence was doing THEM a favor?
Manifest Destiny Mother*******!!
Put that your license plate!

you do know most white people were not slave owners, right?

Exactly most... But it is well documented that the Mayflower 26 started slavery in the US.

Interesting to know if family was on the Mayflower but not exactly something to be proud and excited about.

Like, wow just found out my family was on the Mayflower and I am very sorry, then send some money to a scholarship or something.

Why? I didn't do anything.

Should today's Germans be responsible for a Jewish scholarship fund?

Today's Germans actually express great shame for the role they/their relatives played, and a level of sensitivity toward the victims and their descendants that we never saw here in the US. That is a huge part of why our country still hasn't truly moved on. You can't get past something until you acknowledge what really happened, what REALLY happened, and try to make things right. Slavery ended long ago, but as recently as a generation ago, we were STILL doing much of the same shit. We are STILL doing much of the same shit. You SHOULD be ashamed.

We haven't moved on because you're holding people who are alive today responsible for something they have no control over.

I think you mean "had" no control over, but interestingly enough your error points to the real issue. You DO have control over NOW. Acknowledge that your ancestors did awful awful things. Stop bragging about your connection to them, and denying the awful things they did. Stop blaming the people who remind you. Do your best to remember and to keep history from repeating itself. We are still denying people their basic human rights. We are still discriminating. The descendants of those people are still hurting. Its ancient history to you, and something you're blissfully unaware of on a daily basis. I am confronted with the burden of my skin color every time I look in the mirror. The emotional scars on my mother and grandparents are not easily ignored, and it enrages me if I think about it too hard.

I feel you completely.

Anonymous wrote:AA here who is also a history professor. I have no probelm with anyone being proud of their history and lineage. My ancestors were slaves (we were able to trace back 1837) but post-slavery my kinfolks did some pretty awesome things (including a legislator during Reconstruction).

I think some of the problem is that people claim the positive parts of their lineage ("My family was on the Mayflower, isn't that cool?") but, at the same time, disclaim any negative apsects of that same lineage ("You can't blame me for the bad stuff our ancestors did - it was not my fault.") I am just saying that history is a positive and a negative story. Both should be ackowledged and told.

But that is strictly among the people you have talked to. I'm not a Mayflower descendant, but of the branch of the family that I can trace back so far, I know that we had at least three slaves. I know that one died in the same manner as my great great (etc) grandfather did, by a hatchet to the skull. I do actually feel pretty terrible that my family held slaves, and that we were actively involved in "settling" America, since everyone knows what that's code for. But at the same time that I feel remorse that my ancestors acted that way, I can't change what happened, and I can't do anything about it today, either. And I go back to what I said on page three: it's not that I have such great pride in the heritage, it's that it gives me a better sense of my family's stories. Honestly, since I only uncovered the early roots in the last year, I am more invested in and identified by my Norwegian American ancestors arriving in the 1870s and 1880s. Their stories are completely lost beyond the barest sketches.

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:Mine too...in the hull of the ship

+1 I don't think this is something to be proud of. Your ancestors are the reasons mine were here, and also the reason why I'll NEVER know my history beyond a few generations.

I think you know that one of the reasons that people get excited about this is because they get more stories about their family with a well documented group like this and not because of any great pride.

I understand what you're saying to an extent, but then why the license plates, special clubs in which you must verify your lineage (why not just come out and say "no blacks need apply"???), and the bragging? Even so, if its simply excitement over knowing your lineage, great. Keep it to yourself, and thank your lucky stars you and yours were on the right side of history. I know very little about my family history, beyond the fact that my last name is likely the name of the family that owned us, and the light skin, "good hair", and blue eyes that run in my family are the direct result of the rape of my foremothers.

A reminder: on an anonymous board, try to avoid conflating the words of different posters, or worse, with the actions of people off the board. I have a regular VA license plate, don't belong to any social or fraternal groups, and why would I brag about having ancestors who participated in shoving people off their own land? I don't. Also, I'm not a mayflower descendant. What I do find interesting about my family history is that I can know when and where some of them died, which land they owned, how litigious they were (and some really, really were). The only reason I know these things, though, is because people very dedicated to genealogy pored over the books and papers and slips and then someone put it on the internet. My involvement was to type in an ancestor's name, and figure out who was who. I think because the history is so painful and the documentation less complete, African-Americans haven't gotten into genealogy to the same extent as white people. Some of it is there.

Anonymous wrote:AA here who is also a history professor. I have no probelm with anyone being proud of their history and lineage. My ancestors were slaves (we were able to trace back 1837) but post-slavery my kinfolks did some pretty awesome things (including a legislator during Reconstruction).

I think some of the problem is that people claim the positive parts of their lineage ("My family was on the Mayflower, isn't that cool?") but, at the same time, disclaim any negative apsects of that same lineage ("You can't blame me for the bad stuff our ancestors did - it was not my fault.") I am just saying that history is a positive and a negative story. Both should be ackowledged and told.

Thank you for being a voice of reason. This thread is so indicative of why we can't get anywhere with race relations in this country. People are too invested in being "right," regardless of which side they are on, than they are in having rational, intelligent, RESPECTFUL dialogue. I am white and I get why African Americans could be put off by the tone of OP's post. However, instead of "bitch bye" and all of the other nonsense, you might ask yourselves what your goal is in responding by being nasty. It is certainly not to educate or increase understanding. If you truly cared about changing people's minds or point of view, you'd try a little harder. So I'm led to believe that you don't want to be a part of the solution and would rather be a part of a continuing problem.

But hey, this is DCUM, where snark rules and where the unfortunate truth of what people really think and feel comes out. If DCUM is at all indicative of people across the country, then I am astounded and disheartened by how nasty many people truly are. It does not inspire much hope for our future.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:that isn't the fault of anyone on this board

What isn't their fault, that they celebrate and revere people who owned people, stold other people's lznd and spread disease and acted like their very presence was doing THEM a favor?
Manifest Destiny Mother*******!!
Put that your license plate!

you do know most white people were not slave owners, right?

People with the funds to come over on the mayflower were well off. If you can trace your family back to them, I PROMISE you there's some pretty nasty stuff in your history too.

Many poor people came over here in the 1600 and 1700's. Without the American Revolution best case scenario is a high percentage of the USA would be similar to Canada. Worst case is some of it would be like Mexico or Central or South America. More slaves were brought to South America.

Scots Irish squatting on frontier lands were not exactly Lords and Ladies of England.

Anonymous wrote:I have Native American ancestry. I win.

What percentage?

Anonymous wrote:We came on a plane through Dulles. And proud of it.

If you were in first class, you win! Nah, you win anyway.