Anonymous wrote:I also notice when " science lovers" refuse to engage in studies on racial intelligence and can't bring themselves to admit being gay is probably a choice even though evolution and natural selection would logically dictate it.

Everybody has a God. Everybody worships something... Their body, sex. , alchohol , relationships , work, hobbies , their appearance , politics. There is a hole in people meant for God that will never be satisfied by the things of this world . I notice it and it makes me believe. On the deathbed , it is your only hope... Why not believe? ... There is no downside , not to believe is stupid and suicidal.

I assume this is trolling, but in case it's not...

>I also notice when " science lovers" refuse to engage in studies on racial intelligence
I think you confuse rejecting certain racist ideas with being unwilling to look at race as a factor in social science. Much popular literature on "racial intelligence" is politically driven, racist claptrap. On the other hand, real science studies race/ethnicity/SES in all kinds of contexts from educational outcomes to work achievement to medical issues and acknowledges that there are all kinds of issues with the ideas both of "race" and of precisely defining "intelligence." And, how does this relate to religion?

>can't bring themselves to admit being gay is probably a choice
Science has actually found a very strong genetic component to being gay or straight. Did you choose to be straight? I did not --- it's just who I am. I think that gay people sometimes choose to try to deny who they are and live as straight people (and I guess the opposite is possible too), but I think that often doesn't go well --- they end up having to leave congress after being arrested in a bathroom or from their ministry after being caught with a male prostitute. And again, how does this relate to religion?

>Everybody has a God.
I don't.

>There is a hole in people meant for God that will never be satisfied by the things of this world .
I'm glad that you can find comfort in your faith, but please don't assume that everyone else shares your experience. I do quite well without believing things for which I find no convincing evidence, whether it be Wicca, Zoroastrianism (sp?), Voodoo, crystals or the divinity of Jesus. And I do even better when other people don't try to impose their beliefs or their need for some comfort from those beliefs on me.

>Why not believe? ... There is no downside
The question is, why should I believe your particular myth? I'm guessing that you would find the beliefs of Wicca unconvincing, and that you don't believe them. Your rejection of those beliefs --- because you have seen no convincing evidence that they are true --- is just like my lack of belief in your God. I don't particularly feel strongly about it or need for you to agree with me, I just find it utterly unconvincing --- like stories from the Bagavad Gita, the Quran or Paul Bunyan. It's not really a very important question for me --- just like whether or not you believe in Ganesh is not important for you. It only becomes important when you or your co-religionists want to make laws or spend my tax money based on your beliefs in God or Allah or Shiva or Zeus the Goddess.

I also notice when " science lovers" refuse to engage in studies on racial intelligence and can't bring themselves to admit being gay is probably a choice even though evolution and natural selection would logically dictate it.

Everybody has a God. Everybody worships something... Their body, sex. , alchohol , relationships , work, hobbies , their appearance , politics. There is a hole in people meant for God that will never be satisfied by the things of this world . I notice it and it makes me believe. On the deathbed , it is your only hope... Why not believe? ... There is no downside , not to believe is stupid and suicidal.

I believe because the shroud of Turin is unexplainable by science, and the existence of order and love make no sense . I am a big picture guy...

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Oh, please. I can debunk anything I want to. I can debunk that this thread exists.

It's so easy to debunk, it takes courage to believe.

This is truly one of the most moronic comments I've ever read on DCUM. I wish people would pause and think before they attempt to compose statements.

Agreed. And it's just begging for a (respectful) comparison to the FSM.

Okay, so here goes: Sure the Flying Spaghetti Monster is easy to debunk, but it takes courage to believe in Him!

[Cue angry charges of 'disrespect' and 'ranting' rather than addressing the actual--quite reasonable and respectful--critique.]

RAmen!

Even if I believed that Jesus was not God and merely a man, I would still follow him because of his teachings. The Sermon on the Mount says it all.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Oh, please. I can debunk anything I want to. I can debunk that this thread exists.

It's so easy to debunk, it takes courage to believe.

This is truly one of the most moronic comments I've ever read on DCUM. I wish people would pause and think before they attempt to compose statements.

Agreed. And it's just begging for a (respectful) comparison to the FSM.

Okay, so here goes: Sure the Flying Spaghetti Monster is easy to debunk, but it takes courage to believe in Him!

[Cue angry charges of 'disrespect' and 'ranting' rather than addressing the actual--quite reasonable and respectful--critique.]

Anonymous wrote:^^^ it's his personal God!

I think you are saying that Einstein's idea of God is his own personal view. But if that's what you mean, you are using the term differently than he did when he said he does not believe in a personal God. He meant, or at least it seems totally clear to me that he meant, that whatever God exists is not a "person", but an abstraction of the scientific laws of the universe.

If I misunderstood what you intended, I apologize. You were admirably brief, but sometimes clarity requires a few extra words. [Yes, I know, sometimes I overdo the extras -- mea culpa!]

^^^ it's his personal God!

Anonymous wrote:Einstein believed in God.

In the same way I (who call myself an atheist/agnostic) have noted that I can accept labeling the amazing order of the Universe "God" if you wish, but the guy you pray to, not so much. Einstein said it more eloquently:
"It seems to me that the idea of a personal God is an anthropological concept which I cannot take seriously. I feel also not able to imagine some will or goal outside the human sphere. My views are near those of Spinoza: admiration for the beauty of and belief in the logical simplicity of the order which we can grasp humbly and only imperfectly. I believe that we have to content ourselves with our imperfect knowledge and understanding and treat values and moral obligations as a purely human problem—the most important of all human problems."

That's not what most call a "believer".

Anonymous wrote:Einstein believed in God.

Good enough for me!

Einstein believed in God.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Oh, please. I can debunk anything I want to. I can debunk that this thread exists.

It's so easy to debunk, it takes courage to believe.

This is truly one of the most moronic comments I've ever read on DCUM. I wish people would pause and think before they attempt to compose statements.

Np here. We'll who is right. We'll see.

Anonymous wrote:Oh, please. I can debunk anything I want to. I can debunk that this thread exists.

It's so easy to debunk, it takes courage to believe.

This is truly one of the most moronic comments I've ever read on DCUM. I wish people would pause and think before they attempt to compose statements.

Oh, please. I can debunk anything I want to. I can debunk that this thread exists.

It's so easy to debunk, it takes courage to believe.

Anonymous wrote:Bottom line: believers are desperate for confirmation of their beliefs (not sure why; "faith" should be sufficient) so they fall for all manner of hoaxes and scams.

This is the difference between believers and non-believers: if some credible peer-reviewed science journal presented a compelling case that some place like Heaven existed tomorrow, I'd be as happy as the next person. I have no emotional stake in the disproving of anyone's religious mythos.

Yes believers are desperate because grief is so overwhelming.