Anonymous wrote:My almost 3yo is still in diapers. We've tried a few times over the last 18 months to train with various methods but all resulted in puddles on the floor and/or shit stained underwear. I backed off each time b/c I didn't trust that the battles and messes would be worth it. He's happy, I'm happy so why force it?

My kid is timid and likes to take his time before learning to do something, but he has proven to me that when he's ready he's ready. I keep encouraging and exposing him to playgrounds, pools, the potty, etc but we are all happiest when he's allowed to do it on his own terms. You can think/judge that I am doing x,y,or z wrong but it's working for us. If you must run from me on the playground, well, we probably aren't meant to be friends anyway.

Anonymous wrote:^^ so at 3 years old, the saint we had for a preschool teacher taught them. Twins. Ouch.

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For example, these are the same kids who don't swim well until later because the parents freak them out about it, don't climb to the top of the jungle gym, are picky eaters, etc.

Are you saying that all fearful anxious kids are late potty trainers? I don't think that is true. Some kids just have anxious personalities. It isn't always the parents' fault.

I think generally it is the parents who foster anxiety and behavior that is behind most other children by seizing on it and encouraging it, instead of dealing with it in a way that allows the child to cope and overcome obstacles. I generally think late potty training is a parenting issue. I also think, based on my own observations of many parents after having 2 children, that other instances of children being fearful of trying things and moving to the next level, etc., are the result of parenting. Of course, I understand that come children are fearful/cautious while others are intrepid; however, I think that generally when a child shuts down repeatedly due to fear and cannot accomplish the things his/her peers do, it is the result of how the parents handle new situations. I am sure most people on this board will disagree and say that their child "just wasn't ready" to use a toilet until 3.5, or swim underwater until 5, etc. I am saying that I believe these instances are the result of parenting/nurture and not nature (expect in extreme circumstances like special needs). I understand that makes people defensive.

Oh my goodness. Well, DS potty trained just shy of 2, easily. He's extremely articulate and does a ton of things well, but he's not an adventurer. By your standards he's a victim of anxious parenting, because we don't force him, at 3.5 to put his face in the water (and I'm an all-American swimmer, full college scholarship, and lifeguard for years, and I didn't put MY face into the water until well after 5 years old, incidentally) nor do we push him hard into things that scare him (though we do gently encourage) I just think your post is laughable. It goes to show what snap judgments are good for. I'm not defensive at all. I really don't care what some person, who doesn't seem terribly bright, thinks about my kids or my parenting.

Your post does not change my opinion that the reason your child will not jump into the pool from the edge is because of something you are doing. Regardless of whether it's a bad thing or not, you should take responsibility. This is another area where kids start getting embarrassed around 3.5/4 when their peers can swim. 5 is ridiculous.

You don't seem to understand how little I care about your opinion on my parenting. With every post you seem more like a loon. I do think you're probably just trolling, as I find it hard to believe anyone would be so adamant about their idiotic opinions. Save it for someone who cares about what you have to say? (Guessing nobody in real life does...)

All I am saying is that parents should take responsibility. My child used a sippy cup at home until age 4, which I think is way too long. I fully acknowledge that it was because I allowed it, and not because she was not "showing signs of readiness" to give it up. She probably would have drunk from that thing on the couch happily until 4th grade. It was my job as her mother to throw it away. So, I take full responsibility. If someone else had been in charge, maybe she would have given it up at age 2. JUST LIKE IF I WERE IN CHARGE, YOUR KID WOULD BE POTTY TRAINED WELL BEFORE THREE. I am saying your kid is fine and was ready at 2. IT'S YOU, and YOUR DECISION to wait. If you feel ok about that, great. But STOP BLAMING IT ON YOUR KID.

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Anonymous wrote:Are you kiddin? On the DCUM most kids aren't trained till 4 and then most of them are still sleeping in pull ups at five. This is a population off rents who let kids dictate everything and any "challenge" is immediately diagnosed as kid isn't ready. Parents also just fine diapers easier than finding restrooms. Age 3 is plenty ready to start.

Are you buying or changing their diapers? Then shut up.

I think I have said this before. A diaper on a 3 year old is the biggest red flag a parent can throw up for me. This means that the parent bends over backwards in a zillion ways to try to help the child, but always ends up harming him/her. For example, these are the same kids who don't swim well until later because the parents freak them out about it, don't climb to the top of the jungle gym, are picky eaters, etc. Be respectful of your child as a person and help him or her grow and be confident. This starts in babyhood/toddlerhood. He/she will have an easier time in school, making friends, and in life. Infantilizing is not helping. As soon as I see that diaper, I run. My kids don't even know how to react to 3 year olds talking about having a poop in their pants (I have seen them have a funny look on their faces in a couple of these situations) because we don't generally spend time with these people and their school requires potty training by 2.5. And no--I AM NOT REFERRING TO THE SPECIAL NEEDS COMMUNITY.

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Anonymous wrote:If it worked for your kids, great. But why must the world be modeled on your family? Whatever preschool you use, there is obviously more than enough alternatives that all the diapered 3-year old attend without difficulty. They aren't hard to find.

It need not be, but I am glad I did not have to select a preschool based on whether I was willing to potty train. If that worked for you as a narrowing factor, great.

I never thought of preschools as entities that have standards that I, a paying customer, have to meet. They are there to serve me. Not the other way round. It never occurred to me that my children have to be anything to use a preschool, and they don't.

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Anonymous wrote:If it worked for your kids, great. But why must the world be modeled on your family? Whatever preschool you use, there is obviously more than enough alternatives that all the diapered 3-year old attend without difficulty. They aren't hard to find.

It need not be, but I am glad I did not have to select a preschool based on whether I was willing to potty train. If that worked for you as a narrowing factor, great.

Anonymous wrote:If it worked for your kids, great. But why must the world be modeled on your family? Whatever preschool you use, there is obviously more than enough alternatives that all the diapered 3-year old attend without difficulty. They aren't hard to find.

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All I am saying is that parents should take responsibility. My child used a sippy cup at home until age 4, which I think is way too long. I fully acknowledge that it was because I allowed it, and not because she was not "showing signs of readiness" to give it up. She probably would have drunk from that thing on the couch happily until 4th grade. It was my job as her mother to throw it away. So, I take full responsibility. If someone else had been in charge, maybe she would have given it up at age 2. JUST LIKE IF I WERE IN CHARGE, YOUR KID WOULD BE POTTY TRAINED WELL BEFORE THREE. I am saying your kid is fine and was ready at 2. IT'S YOU, and YOUR DECISION to wait. If you feel ok about that, great. But STOP BLAMING IT ON YOUR KID.

Well if I WERE IN CHARGE (is that enough caps?) of you growing up, you wouldn't be starting stupid threads now. I want your parents to take full responsibility for it. They should stop blaming your stupidity and judgmental nature on you.

Probably. At least you can see that there is a relationship between parenting and behavior now. Your child learns to use the toilet when you teach him. Your child, with a different mother, would not take so long to learn this simple skill. There are probably other things he will learn earlier than others because he has you as a mother. If you teach him to read at 3, should we just say he miraculously figured it out, or would you like the credit? See what I'm getting at??

If I teach my child to read at 3, I wouldn't say "my child learns to read when I teach him," since that could mean that he could have read at eight months old, and that's obviously bullshit.

You could have picked a better example since even in this universe of highly educated parents some kids read at 3, and some at 6, with no difference in degree of parental involvement.

Typically at 3, an adult has to be involved in the learning to read process. It is not that usual for the child to just pick up reading without a lot of exposure to it, letters, etc, either by a parent or by another childcare provider. Obviously with a six year old, there is more exposure over time and more neurological development, such that the child learns more quickly with less direction if you wait to start until 6 with the reading. Saying a child can be potty trained at 8 months is a straw man. I am talking about a 2 year old. You have to actually teach them to use the bathroom in the toilet. Of course, if you wait until 3.5 or 4, just like if you wait to teach a child to read until much later, say even 7, it is a different process, and the child has already "learned" most of it from being exposed to other children doing it, talking about it, etc. I do not think it is necessarily a good thing to teach a 3 year old to read for reasons not relevant to this thread. I am just explaining that for most younger children, there is a teaching element (if your child is Albert Einstein and miraculously started reading without your even teaching him the alphabet, great!) to reading, and there is a teaching element to potty training. Just because the child does not readily poop in the toilet in the first 15 minutes, or first day of teaching, it does not mean he is not ready to learn to do it. Just as, when you teach a child his ABCs, you do not expect him to read a full sentence that week. If you want to wait until the child just does things on his own, I suppose that would mean delaying a whole lot of things that you might otherwise teach him how to do. It's not like crawling/walking, they don't just wake up one day and do it, unless of course they are 4 and finally decide they are too embarrassed to poop in their diaper anymore.

You still haven't explained why it is better to force-train the child to read/use the potty vis-a-vis waiting until they are ready to learn it quickly. When you compare two proficient 10-year old readers, can you tell which one of them started to read at 3 and which one at 6?

When you see two 10-year old boys, can you tell which one of them pooped in the potty at 2 vs. 3 years of age? If yes, how? If not, why do you care?

The reading example, as I mentioned already, does not work. You will meet multiple parents of two children who put the same amount of effort into both, yet they started to read at different ages, simply due to individual differences.

Again, you could have picked a better example. Benefits of reading don't ever stop growing as there isn't such a thing as a total mastery of reading - one can always read more books. But with potty training, there actually is an upper limit of mastery of skill, unless you want to argue that being able to wipe with 2 wipes vs. 4 is better. So why make a huge fuss over something everyone learns to do eventually? I get that you want to feel good about yourself, we all do. But using your kids's bums to do it? Really?