Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"PP you are referring to. My parents never prepped me for anything. I aced every exam I took as a young child. I then became a diligent student as I got older. I don't think it is parental persistence; it is individual persistence."

"I grew up in another state. I was in MG (mentally gifted) and took all honors in junior high and all honors/AP classes in high school."

WHO CARES??? Can we stop talking about you and get back to the NAACP complaint?

Certain minority groups are very underrepresented in AAP and TJ. I do not think anyone is suggesting that we "dumb down" any tests or lower any standards.

If there is a gap here, why does the gap exist? Several posts here point to 1)intelligence 2) interest 3) ambition or "individual persistence"

So are we saying that these minority groups lack these things?? As one PP noted the correlation between mother's educational attainment and child's academic success - I am sure there is also a correlation between parents' income and child's academic success.

Sooooo, do we care? Or do we still insist that the poor kids are just not smart, interested or ambitious enough and too bad for them?

I'm so sick of these race games. I grew up poor. My parents could barely speak English. I worked hard and did well in school. I'm Asian though so I supposedly don't count as a minority even though there are more Hispanics and blacks than Asians.

sigh....these "me, me, me", "I pulled myself up by own bootstraps" anecdotes are so lame and not helpful to the discussion.

It has nothing to do with me individually and everything to do with race and is relevant to the discussion.

Based on these boards, the main issue with AAP and TJ is that there are too many Asians (overrepresented in both AAP and TJ compared to their % of the total population) and not enough black/Hispanics in AAP/TJ. What everyone seems to want is less Asians in the program so that more other minorities can be in the program. My whole point is that Asians are a minority too.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"PP you are referring to. My parents never prepped me for anything. I aced every exam I took as a young child. I then became a diligent student as I got older. I don't think it is parental persistence; it is individual persistence."

"I grew up in another state. I was in MG (mentally gifted) and took all honors in junior high and all honors/AP classes in high school."

WHO CARES??? Can we stop talking about you and get back to the NAACP complaint?

Certain minority groups are very underrepresented in AAP and TJ. I do not think anyone is suggesting that we "dumb down" any tests or lower any standards.

If there is a gap here, why does the gap exist? Several posts here point to 1)intelligence 2) interest 3) ambition or "individual persistence"

So are we saying that these minority groups lack these things?? As one PP noted the correlation between mother's educational attainment and child's academic success - I am sure there is also a correlation between parents' income and child's academic success.

Sooooo, do we care? Or do we still insist that the poor kids are just not smart, interested or ambitious enough and too bad for them?

I'm so sick of these race games. I grew up poor. My parents could barely speak English. I worked hard and did well in school. I'm Asian though so I supposedly don't count as a minority even though there are more Hispanics and blacks than Asians.

sigh....these "me, me, me", "I pulled myself up by own bootstraps" anecdotes are so lame and not helpful to the discussion.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"PP you are referring to. My parents never prepped me for anything. I aced every exam I took as a young child. I then became a diligent student as I got older. I don't think it is parental persistence; it is individual persistence."

"I grew up in another state. I was in MG (mentally gifted) and took all honors in junior high and all honors/AP classes in high school."

WHO CARES??? Can we stop talking about you and get back to the NAACP complaint?

Certain minority groups are very underrepresented in AAP and TJ. I do not think anyone is suggesting that we "dumb down" any tests or lower any standards.

If there is a gap here, why does the gap exist? Several posts here point to 1)intelligence 2) interest 3) ambition or "individual persistence"

So are we saying that these minority groups lack these things?? As one PP noted the correlation between mother's educational attainment and child's academic success - I am sure there is also a correlation between parents' income and child's academic success.

Sooooo, do we care? Or do we still insist that the poor kids are just not smart, interested or ambitious enough and too bad for them?

I'm so sick of these race games. I grew up poor. My parents could barely speak English. I worked hard and did well in school. I'm Asian though so I supposedly don't count as a minority even though there are more Hispanics and blacks than Asians.

Anonymous wrote:"PP you are referring to. My parents never prepped me for anything. I aced every exam I took as a young child. I then became a diligent student as I got older. I don't think it is parental persistence; it is individual persistence."

"I grew up in another state. I was in MG (mentally gifted) and took all honors in junior high and all honors/AP classes in high school."

WHO CARES??? Can we stop talking about you and get back to the NAACP complaint?

Certain minority groups are very underrepresented in AAP and TJ. I do not think anyone is suggesting that we "dumb down" any tests or lower any standards.

If there is a gap here, why does the gap exist? Several posts here point to 1)intelligence 2) interest 3) ambition or "individual persistence"

So are we saying that these minority groups lack these things?? As one PP noted the correlation between mother's educational attainment and child's academic success - I am sure there is also a correlation between parents' income and child's academic success.

Sooooo, do we care? Or do we still insist that the poor kids are just not smart, interested or ambitious enough and too bad for them?

The test problems are meant to be brand new to each child.

Anonymous wrote:

Yes. of course, if a child practices the problems on this test, he or she will get better at them. No one disputes that. But it is a test of how well a child solves problems he or she has never seen before. We don't learn anything about how a child solves a new problem when the problems are all familiar to the child already.

The test problems are meant to be brand new to each child.

What nonsense are you talking about? Why do you think that training and practice yields improved scores? Have you ever heard of repeating concepts, themes, and patterns that recur in math, computer science, physics, decoding and interpreting English literature?

What is a "brand new test problem" if the concept, pattern or theme tested is Newton's second law of mechanics, trigonometric identities, or angle and segment relations in triangles? The "brand new probems" only test a limited number of patterns, concepts, themes, laws, and theorems! Oh, let me count the ways a "brand new problem" is served up testing one's knowledge of Newton's laws? That my dear is why practise and training (by solving problems over and over again) improves performance and scores for all alphabet soup tests (IQ, ability, achievement, aptitude or whatever flavor of rape you wish to nuance). Any educated person understands this simple concept. It works for quarterbacks, golfers, musicians, artists, writers, swimmers, killer test takers and scantron number 2 pencil bubblers!

Yes. of course, if a child practices the problems on this test, he or she will get better at them. No one disputes that. But it is a test of how well a child solves problems he or she has never seen before. We don't learn anything about how a child solves a new problem when the problems are all familiar to the child already.

The test problems are meant to be brand new to each child.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

But, none of them should have seen the test before. You won't get test results that will really tell you anything if some of the kids have never seen the test and some have been going over old test copies for 30 minutes a day all summer. This test is not the same as the SAT or MCAT, which test subject matter which can and should be studied for. The second grade tests are to gauge how a child handles problems they have never seen before. Clearly, it wouldn't be a true test of that when kids have been shown in advance how to do the problems. Kids in AAP learn new things quickly, so that is an ability they are looking for in these tests.

Dummy, don't you know one can improve one's performance by training and practise? Take your junk science back home or to your place of worship.

Of course, one can improve one's performance through practise and training. The only idiots who would call the blue sky pink are fools like Romney, Ryan and Akins.

"Yes, there are people who make a lot of money selling books and even courses to prepare children to take these tests."