Anonymous
06/25/2012 21:33
Subject: Howard University Middle School of Mathematics and Science (MS)²
Anonymous wrote:Oh I know. Not everyone has wealthy grandparents - but I will say that on one side of the family, the folks who came over from England were not rich by any means but, being white, they were able to get education and work and my grandfather, who was orphaned at a young age still was able to work his way to the top of his company. And for decades among working class folks, jobs were also open to whites that were not open to blacks, so that they had the potential of providing a better life for future generations. That that may not have happened I think says more about how the economy has changed over the years so that working class jobs less and less often provide access to the middle class.Anonymous wrote:
Thank you. I'm not sure I buy all that (it's a very broad brush with which to paint an entire race, many of whon did not go to private achool or come from wealthy families), but taking it at face value, the PP before me suggests that white people "just don't want to share the benefit and lessen it for yourself and your future generations" - what should be done about it? What should I share?
As far as what that person said, I don't think it's that white people consciously don't want to share the benefits. I think it's because we don't realize the great benefits we've received historically from being white and we think that, everything's fine now, anyone who can't make it is just being lazy. But, yeah, you can't really respond to an accusation like that constructively. That person is mad, I don't blame her/him, but that kind of accusation leaves you not really knowing what to do. I don't know that I know what to do other than try to be aware, realize that it's still a great advantage to be white in the United States (although I will insist that the US is ahead of many other countries when it comes to race relations), and try to examine my own perceptions - and give back to the community through volunteering. But the thing you have to realize is that even as you do this you will piss someone off - they might be right to be pissed off or they might be reacting to some phantom story in their head and you won't always know which it is and whether you're in the right. I used to obsess about whether I was right or not but I eventually realized that this just goes with the territory. Our country is still hurting from the damage of the past and I think it's gonna be this way for a good while longer.
I have to say, I really appreciate the dialogue that is happening in this thread. These are by no means easy subjects to discuss honestly. It's uncomfortable, upsetting, but very rewarding when there is a glimmer of understanding such as this ^^^. I have no problem taking responsibility for my failures and successes, but I am conscious that my experience could have been very different had I been born into different skin. Just knowing that other people understand that, too, is very gratifying.
Anonymous
06/25/2012 17:35
Subject: Howard University Middle School of Mathematics and Science (MS)²
Anonymous wrote:A great many white families came to America as immigrants in the late 1800s and early 1900s, dirt poor, with little more than the clothes on their backs. They were sent to work in coal mines, sweat shops,factories in brutal and unsafe environments. Many were maimed and killed in accidents and exposure to horrible conditions.
Many of those white families were condemned to poor ghettoes, forbidden to live in other neighborhoods, forbidden to attend certain churches or do business with certain businesses.
Instead of blaming and sitting idly in victimhood, they pushed ahead and worked to make better lives for themselves. They took advantage of everything available to them.Look at President Obama - he was able to attend excellent universities, able to become an attorney, a professor, a Senator and now President. He availed himself of what was available and found his way all the way to the top of America.
And yet here in DC we still have so many who won't even avail themselves of all that is here, especially here in DC with so much that it has to offer - unlike most other cities in the nation - or the world. When families do not even take advantage of the DC Public Library, when moms don't even read a single book to their toddlers, when kids growing up in DC have not even been to the fantastic Smithsonian museums, when they don't even take advantage of what's already out there, one wonders what more can even be done if what's already there is not being taken advantage of.
Please give percentages of those white families who managed to "push ahead" as opposed to those who for whom poverty became generational. And for those who for whom poverty became generational, please give instances of them being denied rights, vilified in media, made to go to separate restrooms, eat in separate restaurants, etc.
President Obama's father was born and raised in Africa, he does not come from a legacy of slavery. That does not negate his experiences as a Black person in America, but he has not experienced generational poverty and was not the product of parents, grandparents, great-grandparents for whom society taught them at every level that they were unworthy. Every race/culture has shining stars; in 2-3 generations Blacks may have many more as well.
Anonymous
06/25/2012 16:48
Subject: Howard University Middle School of Mathematics and Science (MS)²
Whole - who above... Autocorrect
Anonymous
06/25/2012 16:46
Subject: Howard University Middle School of Mathematics and Science (MS)²
Only a single digit percentage of white people benefit from rich grandparents. And as for those whole fall through the cracks, it's not necessarily that's they are lazy, as even hard working are falling through the cracks, it's harder now than before - and that includes whites. But when whites got bankrupt, lose everything or can't get ahead, it's "the economy" or somehow their own fault. But when it's AA everyone automatically makes the leap to racism.
Anonymous
06/25/2012 16:20
Subject: Howard University Middle School of Mathematics and Science (MS)²
Anonymous wrote:Oh I know. Not everyone has wealthy grandparents - but I will say that on one side of the family, the folks who came over from England were not rich by any means but, being white, they were able to get education and work and my grandfather, who was orphaned at a young age still was able to work his way to the top of his company. And for decades among working class folks, jobs were also open to whites that were not open to blacks, so that they had the potential of providing a better life for future generations. That that may not have happened I think says more about how the economy has changed over the years so that working class jobs less and less often provide access to the middle class.Anonymous wrote:
Thank you. I'm not sure I buy all that (it's a very broad brush with which to paint an entire race, many of whon did not go to private achool or come from wealthy families), but taking it at face value, the PP before me suggests that white people "just don't want to share the benefit and lessen it for yourself and your future generations" - what should be done about it? What should I share?
As far as what that person said, I don't think it's that white people consciously don't want to share the benefits. I think it's because we don't realize the great benefits we've received historically from being white and we think that, everything's fine now, anyone who can't make it is just being lazy. But, yeah, you can't really respond to an accusation like that constructively. That person is mad, I don't blame her/him, but that kind of accusation leaves you not really knowing what to do. I don't know that I know what to do other than try to be aware, realize that it's still a great advantage to be white in the United States (although I will insist that the US is ahead of many other countries when it comes to race relations), and try to examine my own perceptions - and give back to the community through volunteering. But the thing you have to realize is that even as you do this you will piss someone off - they might be right to be pissed off or they might be reacting to some phantom story in their head and you won't always know which it is and whether you're in the right. I used to obsess about whether I was right or not but I eventually realized that this just goes with the territory. Our country is still hurting from the damage of the past and I think it's gonna be this way for a good while longer.
Very thoughtful response. Thank you again.
Anonymous
06/25/2012 16:14
Subject: Howard University Middle School of Mathematics and Science (MS)²
Oh I know. Not everyone has wealthy grandparents - but I will say that on one side of the family, the folks who came over from England were not rich by any means but, being white, they were able to get education and work and my grandfather, who was orphaned at a young age still was able to work his way to the top of his company. And for decades among working class folks, jobs were also open to whites that were not open to blacks, so that they had the potential of providing a better life for future generations. That that may not have happened I think says more about how the economy has changed over the years so that working class jobs less and less often provide access to the middle class.Anonymous wrote:
Thank you. I'm not sure I buy all that (it's a very broad brush with which to paint an entire race, many of whon did not go to private achool or come from wealthy families), but taking it at face value, the PP before me suggests that white people "just don't want to share the benefit and lessen it for yourself and your future generations" - what should be done about it? What should I share?
As far as what that person said, I don't think it's that white people consciously don't want to share the benefits. I think it's because we don't realize the great benefits we've received historically from being white and we think that, everything's fine now, anyone who can't make it is just being lazy. But, yeah, you can't really respond to an accusation like that constructively. That person is mad, I don't blame her/him, but that kind of accusation leaves you not really knowing what to do. I don't know that I know what to do other than try to be aware, realize that it's still a great advantage to be white in the United States (although I will insist that the US is ahead of many other countries when it comes to race relations), and try to examine my own perceptions - and give back to the community through volunteering. But the thing you have to realize is that even as you do this you will piss someone off - they might be right to be pissed off or they might be reacting to some phantom story in their head and you won't always know which it is and whether you're in the right. I used to obsess about whether I was right or not but I eventually realized that this just goes with the territory. Our country is still hurting from the damage of the past and I think it's gonna be this way for a good while longer.
Anonymous
06/25/2012 15:28
Subject: Howard University Middle School of Mathematics and Science (MS)²
A great many white families came to America as immigrants in the late 1800s and early 1900s, dirt poor, with little more than the clothes on their backs. They were sent to work in coal mines, sweat shops,factories in brutal and unsafe environments. Many were maimed and killed in accidents and exposure to horrible conditions.
Many of those white families were condemned to poor ghettoes, forbidden to live in other neighborhoods, forbidden to attend certain churches or do business with certain businesses.
Instead of blaming and sitting idly in victimhood, they pushed ahead and worked to make better lives for themselves. They took advantage of everything available to them.
Look at President Obama - he was able to attend excellent universities, able to become an attorney, a professor, a Senator and now President. He availed himself of what was available and found his way all the way to the top of America.
And yet here in DC we still have so many who won't even avail themselves of all that is here, especially here in DC with so much that it has to offer - unlike most other cities in the nation - or the world. When families do not even take advantage of the DC Public Library, when moms don't even read a single book to their toddlers, when kids growing up in DC have not even been to the fantastic Smithsonian museums, when they don't even take advantage of what's already out there, one wonders what more can even be done if what's already there is not being taken advantage of.
Many of those white families were condemned to poor ghettoes, forbidden to live in other neighborhoods, forbidden to attend certain churches or do business with certain businesses.
Instead of blaming and sitting idly in victimhood, they pushed ahead and worked to make better lives for themselves. They took advantage of everything available to them.
Look at President Obama - he was able to attend excellent universities, able to become an attorney, a professor, a Senator and now President. He availed himself of what was available and found his way all the way to the top of America.
And yet here in DC we still have so many who won't even avail themselves of all that is here, especially here in DC with so much that it has to offer - unlike most other cities in the nation - or the world. When families do not even take advantage of the DC Public Library, when moms don't even read a single book to their toddlers, when kids growing up in DC have not even been to the fantastic Smithsonian museums, when they don't even take advantage of what's already out there, one wonders what more can even be done if what's already there is not being taken advantage of.
Anonymous
06/25/2012 15:22
Subject: Howard University Middle School of Mathematics and Science (MS)²
Anonymous wrote:It's only been in recent decades that US policy has changed so that discrimination based on race has been discouraged. So compared to an African-American family, your family has been better placed to earn greater income as well as accumulate more wealth and have educational advantages. You may not feel an impact in your daily life but you may have grown up with more advantages than someone your age who is African-American.Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Nobody alive today perpetrated the exploitation of slavery on blacks, or has any responsibility for it. And, ALL Americans today are the ones living the legacy of it - to include the supposed "benefit.
If you benefit from it, as the entire country does, you share responsibility for it. You just don't want to share the benefit and lessen it for yourself and your future generations. And many alive today perpetrated and in some ways still perpetrate the legacy of slavery and Jim Crow laws -- it's watered down, yes, but it still exists.
I'm really curious (seriously not trying to be argumentative) - what benefits do I, a white man born in 1972, derive from the history of slavery in the US?
For example, my white grandparents were wealthy, which they earned through their respective businesses. Their kids, my parents, went to private schools and attended exclusive colleges and inherited their parents' money. But if my grandparents had been black, they would never have had the opportunities to amass that kind of wealth or send their kids to those kinds of schools. I've worked hard my whole life but I got a great start because my white grandparents were free to build a strong foundation for those who followed them. I benefited from them being white. That kind of opportunity was never available to African-Americans of their generation.
I don't feel guilty about it because it is what it is. But I don't delude myself about the advantages I got from being a white person. An interesting book on this is Black Wealth White Wealth by Oliver and Shapiro:
http://www.amazon.com/Black-Wealth-White-Perspective-Inequality/dp/0415951666/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1340650408&sr=8-1&keywords=black+wealth+white+wealth
Thank you. I'm not sure I buy all that (it's a very broad brush with which to paint an entire race, many of whon did not go to private achool or come from wealthy families), but taking it at face value, the PP before me suggests that white people "just don't want to share the benefit and lessen it for yourself and your future generations" - what should be done about it? What should I share?
Anonymous
06/25/2012 15:13
Subject: Howard University Middle School of Mathematics and Science (MS)²
Anonymous wrote:It's only been in recent decades that US policy has changed so that discrimination based on race has been discouraged. So compared to an African-American family, your family has been better placed to earn greater income as well as accumulate more wealth and have educational advantages. You may not feel an impact in your daily life but you may have grown up with more advantages than someone your age who is African-American.Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Nobody alive today perpetrated the exploitation of slavery on blacks, or has any responsibility for it. And, ALL Americans today are the ones living the legacy of it - to include the supposed "benefit.
If you benefit from it, as the entire country does, you share responsibility for it. You just don't want to share the benefit and lessen it for yourself and your future generations. And many alive today perpetrated and in some ways still perpetrate the legacy of slavery and Jim Crow laws -- it's watered down, yes, but it still exists.
I'm really curious (seriously not trying to be argumentative) - what benefits do I, a white man born in 1972, derive from the history of slavery in the US?
For example, my white grandparents were wealthy, which they earned through their respective businesses. Their kids, my parents, went to private schools and attended exclusive colleges and inherited their parents' money. But if my grandparents had been black, they would never have had the opportunities to amass that kind of wealth or send their kids to those kinds of schools. I've worked hard my whole life but I got a great start because my white grandparents were free to build a strong foundation for those who followed them. I benefited from them being white. That kind of opportunity was never available to African-Americans of their generation.
I don't feel guilty about it because it is what it is. But I don't delude myself about the advantages I got from being a white person. An interesting book on this is Black Wealth White Wealth by Oliver and Shapiro:
http://www.amazon.com/Black-Wealth-White-Perspective-Inequality/dp/0415951666/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1340650408&sr=8-1&keywords=black+wealth+white+wealth
^^^^^^Yes. And here's another take: http://diversityinc.com/ask-the-white-guy/how-does-slavery-benefit-white-people-today/
Anonymous
06/25/2012 14:55
Subject: Howard University Middle School of Mathematics and Science (MS)²
It's only been in recent decades that US policy has changed so that discrimination based on race has been discouraged. So compared to an African-American family, your family has been better placed to earn greater income as well as accumulate more wealth and have educational advantages. You may not feel an impact in your daily life but you may have grown up with more advantages than someone your age who is African-American.Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Nobody alive today perpetrated the exploitation of slavery on blacks, or has any responsibility for it. And, ALL Americans today are the ones living the legacy of it - to include the supposed "benefit.
If you benefit from it, as the entire country does, you share responsibility for it. You just don't want to share the benefit and lessen it for yourself and your future generations. And many alive today perpetrated and in some ways still perpetrate the legacy of slavery and Jim Crow laws -- it's watered down, yes, but it still exists.
I'm really curious (seriously not trying to be argumentative) - what benefits do I, a white man born in 1972, derive from the history of slavery in the US?
For example, my white grandparents were wealthy, which they earned through their respective businesses. Their kids, my parents, went to private schools and attended exclusive colleges and inherited their parents' money. But if my grandparents had been black, they would never have had the opportunities to amass that kind of wealth or send their kids to those kinds of schools. I've worked hard my whole life but I got a great start because my white grandparents were free to build a strong foundation for those who followed them. I benefited from them being white. That kind of opportunity was never available to African-Americans of their generation.
I don't feel guilty about it because it is what it is. But I don't delude myself about the advantages I got from being a white person. An interesting book on this is Black Wealth White Wealth by Oliver and Shapiro:
http://www.amazon.com/Black-Wealth-White-Perspective-Inequality/dp/0415951666/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1340650408&sr=8-1&keywords=black+wealth+white+wealth
Anonymous
06/25/2012 14:33
Subject: Howard University Middle School of Mathematics and Science (MS)²
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Nobody alive today perpetrated the exploitation of slavery on blacks, or has any responsibility for it. And, ALL Americans today are the ones living the legacy of it - to include the supposed "benefit.
If you benefit from it, as the entire country does, you share responsibility for it. You just don't want to share the benefit and lessen it for yourself and your future generations. And many alive today perpetrated and in some ways still perpetrate the legacy of slavery and Jim Crow laws -- it's watered down, yes, but it still exists.
I'm really curious (seriously not trying to be argumentative) - what benefits do I, a white man born in 1972, derive from the history of slavery in the US?
Anonymous
06/25/2012 14:31
Subject: Howard University Middle School of Mathematics and Science (MS)²
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Nobody alive today perpetrated the exploitation of slavery on blacks, or has any responsibility for it. And, ALL Americans today are the ones living the legacy of it - to include the supposed "benefit.
If you benefit from it, as the entire country does, you share responsibility for it. You just don't want to share the benefit and lessen it for yourself and your future generations. And many alive today perpetrated and in some ways still perpetrate the legacy of slavery and Jim Crow laws -- it's watered down, yes, but it still exists.
This nation's history and present is woven from a great many threads, and slavery is one of them.
Yes, it has its dark chapters.
But, the fact is that nobody can fix them there is no repairing it or righting the wrong. And, any Americans born today have no more blame, responsibility, benefit, or shame than the next one, regardless of race.
The only thing we can to is remember the past for the purposes of teaching it so that it doesn't happen ever again. Yet for all the talk of our prior slavery of Africans, we TODAY continue to perpetuate slavery elsewhere, and that includes AAs (and ALL Americans, I am not singling out AAs, just pointing out that they are included) who are themselves responsible for slavery RIGHT AT THIS MOMENT, TODAY, in their choices of products and brands. This is no joke, this is dead serious - assess your own footprint and impact on modern-day slavery via this website: http://slaveryfootprint.org/
Anonymous
06/25/2012 12:47
Subject: Howard University Middle School of Mathematics and Science (MS)²
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Nobody alive today perpetrated the exploitation of slavery on blacks, or has any responsibility for it. And, ALL Americans today are the ones living the legacy of it - to include the supposed "benefit.
"supposed 'benefit'"? Are you suggesting doubt in regards to the benefits of 400 years of free labor? And yes, "ALL Americans today are the ones living the legacy of it", some in the form of slavery-made wealth and others in the form of the achievement gap and harsher prison terms for similar drug offenses. Need I go on? Need I continue to point out the inequalities that continue to run rampant in this country based on race and class? Who takes responsibility? Everyone wants to ignore the facts.
How do you suggest the average american (multiple generations born/raised domestically) work toward eliminating these inequalities? I am sincerely looking for feedback on how to go about leading my life on a day to day basis. I am not trying to pick or continue a fight, I am trying to understand. Assume I am black and then separately assume I am white.
It is the same for all people; teach your children the truth about the past and talk about how to be better now and in the future. Really invest in the education and quality of life for your children and take a stand on those things that a truly unjust in society. Our kids have to see us take a stand for equality: in education, in legislation, at home, etc.
Is this 11:47 answering? I ask because I am doing all the things you suggest above, is this going help neutralize your negative feelings about white people? A person that capitalizes black and uses lower case for white is harboring what appears to be a lot of anger so if this is what it takes, let me introduce you to my family so we can start peacefully coexisting and mutually respect eachnother. If it isn't 11:47, I am still genuinely interested in a response from you.
11:47 here, I am not the PP who has responded to your posts previously. The capitalization is simply the norm as I know it -- Black people generally capitalize "Black", as many don't have the history/genealogy of their families to have anything else to capitalize. White people often know more about their history/genealogy, and so white is generic for them and often not capitalized.
It's really amazing to me how much slavery and its outcrops are still a taboo discussion, and how anyone who brings the subject up has to be angry or hating whites. I peacefully co-exist with people of all races; as a matter of fact, I am often told I am too dispassionate. Why is the statement of truth associated with anger and antagonism? I think this is projection, maybe most white people inherently feel they would hate a people who perpetrated such evils on them.
There are pages and pages of commentary on this thread with generally negative commentary about Black kids, Black adults getting jobs, etc, but no one has mentioned that any of these PPs need to change from within, or at all, when it is just this type of attitude that needs to change. How about some fellow-feeling for your fellow man?
I really feel like the fight Blacks still fight is the ability to be seen as human -- no more, no less. If you oppress a people for centuries, it may well take them centuries to recover. Unfortunately we all have to live with that. I agree with the above in bold, but I also support reparations in the form of education, financial literacy, teaching of entrepreneurship, as well as other forms, as an opportunity to establish true equality, especially for Blacks below the poverty line. And no, I would not benefit.
Anonymous
06/25/2012 12:13
Subject: Howard University Middle School of Mathematics and Science (MS)²
Anonymous wrote:Nobody alive today perpetrated the exploitation of slavery on blacks, or has any responsibility for it. And, ALL Americans today are the ones living the legacy of it - to include the supposed "benefit.
If you benefit from it, as the entire country does, you share responsibility for it. You just don't want to share the benefit and lessen it for yourself and your future generations. And many alive today perpetrated and in some ways still perpetrate the legacy of slavery and Jim Crow laws -- it's watered down, yes, but it still exists.
Anonymous
06/25/2012 11:12
Subject: Howard University Middle School of Mathematics and Science (MS)²
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:This is bullshit. Give me one example of this. I went to a lily white school and I wish that my parents had not sent me. Being called a nigger - and people finding that acceptable - was no fun at all.
Actually, you've just delivered your own example. Because you endured what you shouldn't have you (possibly) now judge all predominantly white environments in this city by those standards, thereby (possibly) denying your child a better experience and leaving him or her confused about the disconnect between your experience and the reality. The reality: by far most white urban dwellers are unbelievably scared to even go near denoting anything to do with race. Their taboo of anything "racist" extends well beyond calling some "nigger" (not to mention that the continued use of this term in some of the black community surrounding me confuses me highly); they won't even let their blond girls inquire about wearing beads or their boy about cutting a mohawk because telling them that this won't look as cool or pretty as in black hair, Gog forbid, just might call attention to the fact that people in our city come in different colors.
Did you know that research shows that shushing all conversation about racial differences may actually not foster but prevent interracial understanding? Kids, yours included, go on to connecting the dots themselves, no more meaningfully than they'd learn math without any guidance. And there we go, reiterating assumptions of the past unless we leap to cut the vicious circle.
First of all, my kids attend a very diverse school. Secondly, we talk about race all the time. We don't avoid the subject. I did not grow up in DC where the "urban" dwellers would have been more accepting. I grew up in the outer suburbs. Breaking a kid's spirit making them feel like they are less does nothing for them int he long term.