People looking for stats are silly.
I majored in statistics in college, and stats can lie. You can find any info you want.

So, take a typical 8-12-year-old. If the child doesn't fit the adult belt (surely below 4'9" but often above this too), the belt is on the abdomen and neck. In a crash, um, ouch! There are actual kids who've been injured this way or even killed and it's not pretty. Hence, why boosters exist.

You want the belt to be at the strongest part of the body. Pelvic bones and across the shoulder.
You choose. Do you want the impact of a crash to rip your child in two? Why even risk it? It's just common sense.

Use a booster until a child fits the adult belt. (And note most boosters have EPS foam which absorbs impact in a crash, so it's even more protection over a seatbelt, especially in a side-impact crash).
My kids are only 7 and 9, but both are in boosters. And my 3-year-old is rear-facing.

Anonymous wrote:What parent would risk injury to their child? I don't understand some of these comments.

Of course we rear-face to age 3 (minimum), and yes we use boosters until the kids are nearly teens. They must fit the adult belt to ride in the seatbelt alone.

Risk injury or even death? No way!

There is so much that can harm a child, why not protect them in the car? It's easy.

There is risk in everything in life. Parents risk injury to their kids in everything they do. Every time your child walks down the street they risk injury or death, every time they eat food they risk injury or death. Every parent has to draw their own line as to what level of risk is acceptable. Some parents are very risk adverse and others accept more risk because of other benefits. Not putting your child in a car at all would decrease even more the risk of being in a MV accident but that is a risk that most parents are willing to assume. People assume little more or less risk than others depending on their comfort level, the information they are working from, and all other factors / context involved. What stats do you have to show evidence that preteens in boosters experience less injury and death?

What parent would risk injury to their child? I don't understand some of these comments.

Of course we rear-face to age 3 (minimum), and yes we use boosters until the kids are nearly teens. They must fit the adult belt to ride in the seatbelt alone.

Risk injury or even death? No way!

There is so much that can harm a child, why not protect them in the car? It's easy.

An interesting read...http://www.nytimes.com/2005/07/10/magazine/10FREAK.html?_r=2&ex=1189915200&en=641c83d4b0668293&ei=5070

In 2005 Dubner and Levitt looked at MV fatalities in young children and found that statistically kids over 2 were no safer (in terms of dying) then kids over 2 restrained just with seatbelts. This was published in Freakonomics.

"Even a quick look at the FARS data reveals a striking result: among children 2 and older, the death rate is no lower for those traveling in any kind of car seat than for those wearing seat belts. There are many reasons, of course, that this raw data might be misleading. Perhaps kids in car seats are, on average, in worse wrecks. Or maybe their parents drive smaller cars, which might provide less protection. But no matter what you control for in the FARS data, the results don't change. In recent crashes and old ones, in big vehicles and small, in one-car crashes and multiple-vehicle crashes, there is no evidence that car seats do a better job than seat belts in saving the lives of children older than 2. (In certain kinds of crashes -- rear-enders, for instance -- car seats actually perform worse.) "

Now they just looked at fatality data - not injury data and injury likely would have been significantly higher in kids in seatbelts versus carseats.

But again..it is about facts. For all of you saying that your kids are 5 times safer in this seat than in that seat or at less risk of dying where are your stats or evidence to back this up?

I am not saying anyone shouldn't use a car seat, but I think ones perspective should be informed by evidence and not by emotion or marketing tactics of car seat companies trying to sell seats.

Anonymous wrote:And remember Sweden has less than 500,000 children under 5. About 1.4 million total under the age of 14. The US has 25.5 million under 5 and over 75 million kids under 14. So when Sweden's numbers look really good - you can't compare numbers. You have to go by ration, per 100,000.

If the stats I found were right there were 8 MV deaths in kids 0-5 in Sweden in 2010 (of .5 million kids). In the US there were 450 MV deaths in 2009 (Of 25.5 million kids).

If my math is right (and it may not be) that works out to
Sweden 1.6 deaths / 100,000
US 1.76 deaths / 100,000

AND, Swedes rely on alternative means of transportation (biking, walking, public transit, etc) far more heavily than Americans. There are entire cities in America, not to mention suburbs and rural areas where the only way to get around is by car.

I would bet that when you factor in car ownership and usage, the Swedish death rate is actually equal to or higher than the American rate.

* ratio not ration!

And remember Sweden has less than 500,000 children under 5. About 1.4 million total under the age of 14. The US has 25.5 million under 5 and over 75 million kids under 14. So when Sweden's numbers look really good - you can't compare numbers. You have to go by ration, per 100,000.

If the stats I found were right there were 8 MV deaths in kids 0-5 in Sweden in 2010 (of .5 million kids). In the US there were 450 MV deaths in 2009 (Of 25.5 million kids).

If my math is right (and it may not be) that works out to
Sweden 1.6 deaths / 100,000
US 1.76 deaths / 100,000

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So why is it that poster after poster keeps touting that in Europe it is so muc better and safer. But when someone actually from Europe pipes in that in general it is much less safer there then they are dismissed.

Europe is a pretty big place. They are from one particular country that does it one way. There are many countries in Europe.

Yet that didn't prevent the people from preaching the way "they do it in Europe". It was ok for Europe to be a single thing for as long as it served the argument; all of a sudden Austria just one of many many places in Europe.

+1

It would be amusing if all these folks actually moved to "Europe" only to discover American culture and values are much more in line with their beliefs than they thought.

I think everywhere has there "problems" moving to Europe would just be trading on value I disagree with for another really

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So why is it that poster after poster keeps touting that in Europe it is so muc better and safer. But when someone actually from Europe pipes in that in general it is much less safer there then they are dismissed.

Europe is a pretty big place. They are from one particular country that does it one way. There are many countries in Europe.

Yet that didn't prevent the people from preaching the way "they do it in Europe". It was ok for Europe to be a single thing for as long as it served the argument; all of a sudden Austria just one of many many places in Europe.

+1

It would be amusing if all these folks actually moved to "Europe" only to discover American culture and values are much more in line with their beliefs than they thought.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote: just an FYI... if you have an accident in a European carseat your insurance company will NOT replace your carseat.

Ok, and how is that a problem? I'll replace it regardless of if they pay for it as my child's safety is my priority.

alot of people dont have 600 dollars to buy a carseat only to have to do it again. So it is a thought to keep in mind.

also if they find out you dont have a "legal" seat they could fight paying your childs medical bills if they have any related to the accident.

There are many people who do have the money but in all reality a "good" seat is not in their priority. If you are lower income, there are resources for free seats so there is no excuse not to have a working, current/not expired car seat regardless of which seat you choose. I'd rather sacrifice other things like not having a fancy car, fancy house, buying the most current in season clothing, going out to eat/coffee every chance I get to have a car seat that will keep my child safer. If you use a car seat properly, it cuts down significantly on the injures. I can't imagine an insurance company is going to be so concerned about the seat. That is just an excuse you are making as it isn't your priority. Its ok, just admit it. You can get a decent American seat too but they are harder to extend RF. If it isn't your priority, just admit it and admit that you don't care but to come up with 1001 excuses of why you can't properly use a car seat is just unsafe for your child. You can afford that fancy cell phone or internet to make these posts so get rid of that for a few months and get your kid a good seat.

no one said my kid was not in a working current not expired seat.... and your right I should get rid my fancy 1996 Saturn, stop buying thrift store scrubs to wear to work 6/7 days a week, and going out to eat on the way home once or twice a month after working 16 hours and being to tired to go home and cook for my kid and I to pay for us to survive so I can have the great new carseat...

my kid is rearfacing at almost 5 in a Radian. He is perfectly safe HOWEVER in the event of an accident the fact is I dont have the money to replace it with another GOOD seat. So YES I rely on insurance to replace my seat. that is why I have insurance to protect me as best as possible in the event of an accident. So the fact is insurance will not replace the European carseat in the event of an accident is a BIG factor in choosing a seat. There are seats in the US you can buy, you dont have as good a selection but you have options.

but yeah I DONT CARE because I pointed out insurance wont cover...it is a factor many people need to consider... coming up with 600 one time to order one is doable because you have months to plan...

grow the fuck up and realize that people dont live in your little bubble of life...

and yeah I have a great pay as you go phone (and no landline) and havent had internet in my house since I was pregnant 5 years ago... Ill get right on changing my proprieties because you told me to.. hey maybe you can add a couple more days to the week so I have more then 7 days in a week to work so I can earn all this extra money you speak of.