Anonymous
Post 04/28/2012 15:32     Subject: Re:DC Hebrew approved!!
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Clearly the fact that Hebrew is one of the languages on which the Western Civilization (a.k.a Judeo-Christian) is based has escaped some people. Do you really think that the Bible was written is English?? Maybe you don't care about the Bible, but you should care about the civilization you live in, even if it is not your own.


Allegedly, the school will be Modern Hebrew immersion, a language that has only been existence since the early 20th century. It is not the language upon which western civilization is based. It is a very interesting language, with influences from many other world languages. However, the argument that it is worthy to base an immersion school on Modern Hebrew because it is the language of the Bible is false.



Not really true from a historical perspective. Modern Hebrew is based on biblical Hebrew, Aramaic, and other Semitic languages, with influences from Turkish, Arabic, Ladino, Yiddish, and other European languages. A Modern Hebrew speaker could encounter a speaker of biblical Hebrew on the street and have a conversation, much in the way that speaker of contemporary Latin American Spanish could chat with Cervantes, or a speaker of Modern Greek could converse with Plato. Moreover, Modern Hebrew developed was developed over two centuries, beginning in the mid-1880s, and is spoken by nearly 12 million people worldwide. Of course, this is a SECULAR school, so talking about whether Jesus spoke Hebrew (yep! along with Aramaic, Greek, Latin, etc.) is not really the point...At this point, in the context of all of the other niche charter schools in existence, we probably should asking ourselves why Hebrew is so "threatening?" Are we afraid the "Jew" is catchy? Would you be making the same arguments about Swedish, or Swahili, or Sanskrit? For many of those posting here it seems to be a personal bias thing which is not too pretty. I personally wish we didn't have charter schools, but rather had strong corner public schools, but that is not our reality. The Hebrew charter seems as good as any charter, and much better than some I have visited. Lapsed Catholic and mother of two.


I really hate that you are trying to turn this discussion into an anti-Judaism thing, and am frankly offended. I don't think the school has much to offer people who aren't Jewish. That has nothing to do with being scared or threatened by anyone! I think other super niche charter schools that serve a small groups of people are also not the best, (and I don't really love that Roots PCS is clearly only for African American children) however since this one's niche is a religion, I see it as a little more controversial. That is just my opinion. I would personally PREFER (note that I say prefer, not 'those schools shouldn't get charters') that immersion schools focus on languages that would be in the top 20 or 30 in this list, and therefore cast a wider net of interest and utility:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_languages_by_number_of_native_speakers

The number of Hebrew speakers in the link above conflicts with yours btw, but even if this is wrong and you are right, its not even close to what I would consider a widely spoken language.


It is hard to argue with people who cite wikipedia as evidence. People who make statements like "I don't think the school has much to offer people who aren't Jewish," and assert, out of their ass, that the school's "niche is religion." but then somehow, accuse posters of " trying to turn this discussion into an anti-Judaism thing, when they point out you are full of it. 1. Non-Jews speak Modern Hebrew; 2. the school is NOT religious; 3. charter schools are by definition niche schools, they exist to give people options; 4. not all speakers of a language are fluent - presumably the non-linguist who posted the wikipedia listing is taking some number of Israeli population numbers which are near 8 million - state department figures peg around 12 million Hebrew speakers. Swedish speakers number about 11 million as a comparison. 4. No one is arguing that either language is widely-spoken, but the whole tenor of your exchange suggests you are fixated on a "controversy" that doesn't exist. Ask yourself if you would do the same about another language. Doubtful....l and that should be offensive to all non-Jews, as well as Jews.
Anonymous
Post 04/28/2012 15:03     Subject: Re:DC Hebrew approved!!
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Clearly the fact that Hebrew is one of the languages on which the Western Civilization (a.k.a Judeo-Christian) is based has escaped some people. Do you really think that the Bible was written is English?? Maybe you don't care about the Bible, but you should care about the civilization you live in, even if it is not your own.


Allegedly, the school will be Modern Hebrew immersion, a language that has only been existence since the early 20th century. It is not the language upon which western civilization is based. It is a very interesting language, with influences from many other world languages. However, the argument that it is worthy to base an immersion school on Modern Hebrew because it is the language of the Bible is false.



Not really true from a historical perspective. Modern Hebrew is based on biblical Hebrew, Aramaic, and other Semitic languages, with influences from Turkish, Arabic, Ladino, Yiddish, and other European languages. A Modern Hebrew speaker could encounter a speaker of biblical Hebrew on the street and have a conversation, much in the way that speaker of contemporary Latin American Spanish could chat with Cervantes, or a speaker of Modern Greek could converse with Plato. Moreover, Modern Hebrew developed was developed over two centuries, beginning in the mid-1880s, and is spoken by nearly 12 million people worldwide. Of course, this is a SECULAR school, so talking about whether Jesus spoke Hebrew (yep! along with Aramaic, Greek, Latin, etc.) is not really the point...At this point, in the context of all of the other niche charter schools in existence, we probably should asking ourselves why Hebrew is so "threatening?" Are we afraid the "Jew" is catchy? Would you be making the same arguments about Swedish, or Swahili, or Sanskrit? For many of those posting here it seems to be a personal bias thing which is not too pretty. I personally wish we didn't have charter schools, but rather had strong corner public schools, but that is not our reality. The Hebrew charter seems as good as any charter, and much better than some I have visited. Lapsed Catholic and mother of two.


I really hate that you are trying to turn this discussion into an anti-Judaism thing, and am frankly offended. I don't think the school has much to offer people who aren't Jewish. That has nothing to do with being scared or threatened by anyone! I think other super niche charter schools that serve a small groups of people are also not the best, (and I don't really love that Roots PCS is clearly only for African American children) however since this one's niche is a religion, I see it as a little more controversial. That is just my opinion. I would personally PREFER (note that I say prefer, not 'those schools shouldn't get charters') that immersion schools focus on languages that would be in the top 20 or 30 in this list, and therefore cast a wider net of interest and utility:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_languages_by_number_of_native_speakers

The number of Hebrew speakers in the link above conflicts with yours btw, but even if this is wrong and you are right, its not even close to what I would consider a widely spoken language.




Anonymous
Post 04/28/2012 14:42     Subject: DC Hebrew approved!!
Anonymous wrote:Congrats, immediate PP, for the most idiotic post of the day.


Actually, the idea that some PPs seem to know better than actual parents what is or is not useful and desirable for their own children to learn, is easily the most assinine and offensive thing I've heard all week.

Congratulations yourself, troll!

Don't like a school? Don't enroll your child.
Don't think a school is a good idea? Come up with a better one.
But, if all you can do is bitch on the internet about someone else's hard work and innovative education program? Try pulling the live ferret out of your ass.
Anonymous
Post 04/28/2012 13:04     Subject: Re:DC Hebrew approved!!
Anonymous wrote:
Clearly the fact that Hebrew is one of the languages on which the Western Civilization (a.k.a Judeo-Christian) is based has escaped some people. Do you really think that the Bible was written is English?? Maybe you don't care about the Bible, but you should care about the civilization you live in, even if it is not your own.


Allegedly, the school will be Modern Hebrew immersion, a language that has only been existence since the early 20th century. It is not the language upon which western civilization is based. It is a very interesting language, with influences from many other world languages. However, the argument that it is worthy to base an immersion school on Modern Hebrew because it is the language of the Bible is false.



Not really true from a historical perspective. Modern Hebrew is based on biblical Hebrew, Aramaic, and other Semitic languages, with influences from Turkish, Arabic, Ladino, Yiddish, and other European languages. A Modern Hebrew speaker could encounter a speaker of biblical Hebrew on the street and have a conversation, much in the way that speaker of contemporary Latin American Spanish could chat with Cervantes, or a speaker of Modern Greek could converse with Plato. Moreover, Modern Hebrew developed was developed over two centuries, beginning in the mid-1880s, and is spoken by nearly 12 million people worldwide. Of course, this is a SECULAR school, so talking about whether Jesus spoke Hebrew (yep! along with Aramaic, Greek, Latin, etc.) is not really the point...At this point, in the context of all of the other niche charter schools in existence, we probably should asking ourselves why Hebrew is so "threatening?" Are we afraid the "Jew" is catchy? Would you be making the same arguments about Swedish, or Swahili, or Sanskrit? For many of those posting here it seems to be a personal bias thing which is not too pretty. I personally wish we didn't have charter schools, but rather had strong corner public schools, but that is not our reality. The Hebrew charter seems as good as any charter, and much better than some I have visited. Lapsed Catholic and mother of two.
Anonymous
Post 04/28/2012 12:36     Subject: Re:DC Hebrew approved!!
Clearly the fact that Hebrew is one of the languages on which the Western Civilization (a.k.a Judeo-Christian) is based has escaped some people. Do you really think that the Bible was written is English?? Maybe you don't care about the Bible, but you should care about the civilization you live in, even if it is not your own.


Allegedly, the school will be Modern Hebrew immersion, a language that has only been existence since the early 20th century. It is not the language upon which western civilization is based. It is a very interesting language, with influences from many other world languages. However, the argument that it is worthy to base an immersion school on Modern Hebrew because it is the language of the Bible is false.

Anonymous
Post 04/28/2012 11:43     Subject: Re:DC Hebrew approved!!
I find interesting that the argument most prevalent against the school is that Hebrew is a useless language spoken by only a handful of people. Setting aside the interesting concept of "useless knowledge", it should be clear to everyone that the reach of a language is not measured by the number of people who speak it (has anybody on this board heard about Latin? Ancient Greek?). Learning Hebrew is not like learning Danish.
Clearly the fact that Hebrew is one of the languages on which the Western Civilization (a.k.a Judeo-Christian) is based has escaped some people. Do you really think that the Bible was written is English?? Maybe you don't care about the Bible, but you should care about the civilization you live in, even if it is not your own.
Unless of course, one puts "History" in the category of "useless" knowledge...

Anonymous
Post 04/27/2012 23:02     Subject: DC Hebrew approved!!
Congrats, immediate PP, for the most idiotic post of the day.
Anonymous
Post 04/27/2012 18:36     Subject: DC Hebrew approved!!
Anonymous wrote:It sounds like a justification for its existence to me. DC doesn't need a Hebrew immersion school. What DC needs is better charter options that serve the needs of all the kids in the city and doesn't waste time on a difficult language they will never use.


And you're free to open such a school, just as soon as you get your charter. Better get to work on that!
Anonymous
Post 04/27/2012 17:15     Subject: DC Hebrew approved!!
Anonymous wrote:Clearly, 12:34, you don't speak Hebrew.


"??????????? ?? ????? ??? ??????"

Or in other words: Stereotypes make you look like an idiot. Happen to be Jewish and Hispanic. Happen to speak some Hebrew, some Spanish, and am trying to learn Amharic. Happen to be a tan person who tutored some African-American children at the charter school near my house. Love languages. Think they're a good thing for black children, tan children, etc. Happy the Hebrew immersion school got approved. Hope other language immersion schools get approved, too. ?????, paz, ???.
Anonymous
Post 04/27/2012 16:29     Subject: DC Hebrew approved!!
Clearly, 12:34, you don't speak Hebrew.
Anonymous
Post 04/27/2012 12:34     Subject: DC Hebrew approved!!
I spent a year volunteering at a charter school who (rightfully) lost their charter. The school taught math through African drumming, reading through rap, and billed itself as providing an "experimental, Afrocentric, arts-based experience." There was a Swahili component as well.

Now, this was a niche-based charter. For the record, I think this concept could work in the right hands. However, this school was a disaster from a management perspective.

Is Hebrew a distraction? No more so than any organizing concept in charter education. Moreover, language learning actually has objective cognitive rewards. Furthermore, as Skip McCoy of the Charter School Board said:

"The Hebrew language offers an opportunity for students to learn another language, and through the medium would teach kids about a different part of the world that a lot of kids who haven't been to Israel don't know about. "In my view you don't learn a foreign language to fill out a business application."
Anonymous
Post 04/27/2012 12:22     Subject: DC Hebrew approved!!
Anonymous wrote:It sounds like a justification for its existence to me. DC doesn't need a Hebrew immersion school. What DC needs is better charter options that serve the needs of all the kids in the city and doesn't waste time on a difficult language they will never use.



No single charter (even KIPP) could ever serve the needs of all the kids. If you want to start a charter to serve some kids-- go ahead, but not sure why parents who want to send their kids to this charter shouldn't be given that opportunity just because not everyone wants to go there?
Anonymous
Post 04/27/2012 12:20     Subject: DC Hebrew approved!!
Anonymous wrote:It sounds like a justification for its existence to me. DC doesn't need a Hebrew immersion school. What DC needs is better charter options that serve the needs of all the kids in the city and doesn't waste time on a difficult language they will never use.

The behavior of families in relation to the charter system is a perversion, one caused by a paucity of good options. I think that you should take your outrage to this thread http://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/231467.page , rather than going after a school whose founders are going to wind up providing a good education (albeit one burdened with the distraction of Hebrew immersion) to kids in need.
Anonymous
Post 04/27/2012 12:15     Subject: DC Hebrew approved!!
It sounds like a justification for its existence to me. DC doesn't need a Hebrew immersion school. What DC needs is better charter options that serve the needs of all the kids in the city and doesn't waste time on a difficult language they will never use.
Anonymous
Post 04/27/2012 11:58     Subject: Re:DC Hebrew approved!!
Anonymous wrote:
I think its weird to justify the existence of this school by saying, "people who are not Jewish will go because they are just so desperate, they don't care if their kid will learn a language they will never use." I know that this is true and could very well happen. I also understand why they were approved by the charter board, technically. But to me personally, having a school that seems like it will be for either children of one religion or families who have no other options is just kind of lame. I think most non-Jewish families would choose many many other languages over Hebrew, so this would really be a last resort for them. Don't they want families that are committed to Hebrew immersion itself - and who are those people that are not Jewish? Maybe I'm wrong but it just seems off to me. I guess I would say the same thing for a Danish immersion school.


This!

But I don't think that people making this point mean it as a justification for the school's existence. Instead, it's meant to explain to folks who aren't familiar with DC charter law or the reality on the ground that this school can't exclusively serve families with a connection to Israel.