Anonymous wrote:

If you're happy with your choice there's no need to get all up in arms, defensive and trying to offend others just because we see things differently. I don't doubt you're trying to do your best. I never said that. What I'm saying is that when you're not with your child when they're awake you're definitely not raising them.

And this is where you are fundamentally wrong. Parents raise their children in every decision that they make. Iam raising my child to know that both women and men work. We are raising our child to know that even though we may be apart for a bit, mommy and daddy always come back. And that when they are even as young as 3 months that I will find an environment and people that we trust to care for him while we are not there. The environment where his needs are met, he is engaged, sung to, brought outside to play, given different textures to explore, music to make, given a safe environment to explore and become more mobile with people who from 8-4 have our son and 4 other babies' care as their only job. They don't cook, or have to do the laundry, or grocery shop, or anything. And our son certainly benefits from interaction with other babies. He learned to crawl and stand and is very verbal from the influence of other babies. those daycare people follow our instructions for food, clothing, sleep, play, and even interaction. This is all part of raising our child. And that is where you are straight up wrong. Finally, we are raising our child to know that both parents share in parenting responsibilities and he can do whatever he wants to do, regardless of traditional gender roles and expectations.

Fundamentally, we are raising our children and we are justifiably offended when you tell us we are not and that you wish everyone would make the choices that you make. We are offended at your lack of empathy for our values, how you don't acknowledge or understand your own position of privilege and your comments like "it's sad to know that this is the best some parents can afford for our children."

Asking me not to get offended if I'm secure in my choices is akin to calling breastmilk poison and ranting on about how you wish everyone could afford formula (because you don't hold it against those who can't afford it) for 11 pages and expecting people who choose to Breastfeed to not be upset or offended because they are "secure in their choices." My partner and I are secure in our choices and I am offended that you are constantly criticizing them without any self awareness.

I also ask you directly because I don't believe you've answered this. What role does your working spouse provide in raising your children? Does he (I am making a heterosexist assumption) not since he works?

Anonymous wrote:6:43, with their reasoning, only men and childless women shouldbe working in the medical field. greater good be d@mned .

Anonymous wrote:

If you're happy with your choice there's no need to get all up in arms, defensive and trying to offend others just because we see things differently. I don't doubt you're trying to do your best. I never said that. What I'm saying is that when you're not with your child when they're awake you're definitely not raising them.

And this is where you are fundamentally wrong. Parents raise their children in every decision that they make. Iam raising my child to know that both women and men work. We are raising our child to know that even though we may be apart for a bit, mommy and daddy always come back. And that when they are even as young as 3 months that I will find an environment and people that we trust to care for him while we are not there. The environment where his needs are met, he is engaged, sung to, brought outside to play, given different textures to explore, music to make, given a safe environment to explore and become more mobile with people who from 8-4 have our son and 4 other babies' care as their only job. They don't cook, or have to do the laundry, or grocery shop, or anything. And our son certainly benefits from interaction with other babies. He learned to crawl and stand and is very verbal from the influence of other babies. those daycare people follow our instructions for food, clothing, sleep, play, and even interaction. This is all part of raising our child. And that is where you are straight up wrong. Finally, we are raising our child to know that both parents share in parenting responsibilities and he can do whatever he wants to do, regardless of traditional gender roles and expectations.

Fundamentally, we are raising our children and we are justifiably offended when you tell us we are not and that you wish everyone would make the choices that you make. We are offended at your lack of empathy for our values, how you don't acknowledge or understand your own position of privilege and your comments like "it's sad to know that this is the best some parents can afford for our children."

Asking me not to get offended if I'm secure in my choices is akin to calling breastmilk poison and ranting on about how you wish everyone could afford formula (because you don't hold it against those who can't afford it) for 11 pages and expecting people who choose to Breastfeed to not be upset or offended because they are "secure in their choices." My partner and I are secure in our choices and I am offended that you are constantly criticizing them without any self awareness.

I also ask you directly because I don't believe you've answered this. What role does your working spouse provide in raising your children? Does he (I am making a heterosexist assumption) not since he works?

If you're happy with your choice there's no need to get all up in arms, defensive and trying to offend others just because we see things differently. I don't doubt you're trying to do your best. I never said that. What I'm saying is that when you're not with your child when they're awake you're definitely not raising them.

Anonymous wrote:There are no daycares in my country, the "community" pitches in to collectively raise children. There are as many working mothers as there are SAHMs but it's nothing for children to hang out at their neighbor's house until Mom and Dad came home from work. No money exchanged hands and nobody assumed silent grudges, -I don't want to watch your kids-. All the Moms in the community are considered everybody's Moms, houses are interchangeable and there is always a constant revolving door of kids in and out of neighborhood homes. Everybody knew everybody, values are similar across the board. If you got in trouble, Sally's Mom is allowed to and will discipline you the same way your Mom would and that was usually enough.

To some, the arrangement is too close for comfort but I missed that sense of community when I came to the States.

The caveat though is that my country is also not a *rich* country by American standards. People live frugally so there is no need to work crazy hours to provide for your family.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sorry but if you wake up, get the child ready, take them somewhere, stay out all day long, pick them up feed them dinner and put them to sleep you're NOT raising your child.

Okay, then. So when your kids start school, I guess you're done raising them, too. Maybe you should have a big "Hey, I'm done raising you, have a nice life" party for them on their 5th birthday.

In other news, I have my child in an inhome daycare from 8:30 to 4:30. I thought I'd be the parent whose kid was there the least. But most families there use a similar schedule to mine. I have 1.5 hours with him in the morning and 3.5 hours with him before bed. So I get 5 waking, and his providers get 6 during the week. I think SAHers aren't necessarily getting the true picture of how a lot of working moms do things. It probably makes them feel better about quitting work, but it's not necessarily reality. Most of us are doing our best to strike a good balance between providing for and taking care of our kids.

You completely missed the point. We're talking about infants here. Children that can't understand social settings and crave one on one attention. A school aged child craves interaction with other children and adults and it's healthy for them to be in that setting.

If you're happy with your choice there's no need to get all up in arms, defensive and trying to offend others just because we see things differently. I don't doubt you're trying to do your best. I never said that. What I'm saying is that when you're not with your child when they're awake you're definitely not raising them.

I was just reading the thread in General Parenting about toddlers doing lists while putting themselves to sleep and a lady mentioned her toddler repeating what he hears in daycare all day. A lot of parents came later on to say that this is how they know what goes on in daycare. How awful is that? Obviously I didn't say anything there but it must be really really sad not to know what goes on with your child all day and just hope they'll "let it out" while going to sleep in the end of the day. I'm so sorry for the little ones who go through this... It's sad to know that this is the best some parents can provide for their kids... I wish we all could afford staying home with our kids.

You know I am not usually an angry type, but I have never wanted to punch someone as much as this poster. For real. How fucking dare you? I feel sorry for YOUR children.

I don't DO this, but damn, you are an ignorant c#nt. I am not sure there is even a word fot how vile you are.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sorry but if you wake up, get the child ready, take them somewhere, stay out all day long, pick them up feed them dinner and put them to sleep you're NOT raising your child.

Okay, then. So when your kids start school, I guess you're done raising them, too. Maybe you should have a big "Hey, I'm done raising you, have a nice life" party for them on their 5th birthday.

In other news, I have my child in an inhome daycare from 8:30 to 4:30. I thought I'd be the parent whose kid was there the least. But most families there use a similar schedule to mine. I have 1.5 hours with him in the morning and 3.5 hours with him before bed. So I get 5 waking, and his providers get 6 during the week. I think SAHers aren't necessarily getting the true picture of how a lot of working moms do things. It probably makes them feel better about quitting work, but it's not necessarily reality. Most of us are doing our best to strike a good balance between providing for and taking care of our kids.

You completely missed the point. We're talking about infants here. Children that can't understand social settings and crave one on one attention. A school aged child craves interaction with other children and adults and it's healthy for them to be in that setting.

If you're happy with your choice there's no need to get all up in arms, defensive and trying to offend others just because we see things differently. I don't doubt you're trying to do your best. I never said that. What I'm saying is that when you're not with your child when they're awake you're definitely not raising them.

I was just reading the thread in General Parenting about toddlers doing lists while putting themselves to sleep and a lady mentioned her toddler repeating what he hears in daycare all day. A lot of parents came later on to say that this is how they know what goes on in daycare. How awful is that? Obviously I didn't say anything there but it must be really really sad not to know what goes on with your child all day and just hope they'll "let it out" while going to sleep in the end of the day. I'm so sorry for the little ones who go through this... It's sad to know that this is the best some parents can provide for their kids... I wish we all could afford staying home with our kids.

You know I am not usually an angry type, but I have never wanted to punch someone as much as this poster. For real. How fucking dare you? I feel sorry for YOUR children.

I don't DO this, but damn, you are an ignorant c#nt. I am not sure there is even a word fot how vile you are.

Anonymous wrote:Some of us women put our kids in day care because we want to work. We enjoy our jobs and we enjoy contributing to business, the scientific community, the legal community, and other fields just like the menfolk do. If I win the lottery tomorrow I will not become a stay-at-home mom. I was trained to practice a profession and I'm now doing so, just like your husband. My children have high quality child care. They are doing just fine. They are developing perfectly normally.

OP, there has never been a time in history (outside of the early post-war period) that women have been expected to stay at home alone with their children. Women have ALWAYS worked outside of the home. My family comes from a traditional society in rural Africa. All of the adult able-bodied women work. They work in the fields. They work in factories. They do what they need to do to put food on the table. Children are cared for by girls and elderly women who do not have the strength or ability to do the harder work. It has always been that way. Women have always worked and other people (grannies, aunties and young girls) have always looked after people's children.

You are never going to convince the majority of women that they should stay in their homes alone with their children. Women are bright and have skills that benefit society and the economy. We are going to put those skills to use along with our husbands.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sorry but if you wake up, get the child ready, take them somewhere, stay out all day long, pick them up feed them dinner and put them to sleep you're NOT raising your child.

Okay, then. So when your kids start school, I guess you're done raising them, too. Maybe you should have a big "Hey, I'm done raising you, have a nice life" party for them on their 5th birthday.

In other news, I have my child in an inhome daycare from 8:30 to 4:30. I thought I'd be the parent whose kid was there the least. But most families there use a similar schedule to mine. I have 1.5 hours with him in the morning and 3.5 hours with him before bed. So I get 5 waking, and his providers get 6 during the week. I think SAHers aren't necessarily getting the true picture of how a lot of working moms do things. It probably makes them feel better about quitting work, but it's not necessarily reality. Most of us are doing our best to strike a good balance between providing for and taking care of our kids.

You completely missed the point. We're talking about infants here. Children that can't understand social settings and crave one on one attention. A school aged child craves interaction with other children and adults and it's healthy for them to be in that setting.

If you're happy with your choice there's no need to get all up in arms, defensive and trying to offend others just because we see things differently. I don't doubt you're trying to do your best. I never said that. What I'm saying is that when you're not with your child when they're awake you're definitely not raising them.

I was just reading the thread in General Parenting about toddlers doing lists while putting themselves to sleep and a lady mentioned her toddler repeating what he hears in daycare all day. A lot of parents came later on to say that this is how they know what goes on in daycare. How awful is that? Obviously I didn't say anything there but it must be really really sad not to know what goes on with your child all day and just hope they'll "let it out" while going to sleep in the end of the day. I'm so sorry for the little ones who go through this... It's sad to know that this is the best some parents can provide for their kids... I wish we all could afford staying home with our kids.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sorry but if you wake up, get the child ready, take them somewhere, stay out all day long, pick them up feed them dinner and put them to sleep you're NOT raising your child.

Okay, then. So when your kids start school, I guess you're done raising them, too. Maybe you should have a big "Hey, I'm done raising you, have a nice life" party for them on their 5th birthday.

In other news, I have my child in an inhome daycare from 8:30 to 4:30. I thought I'd be the parent whose kid was there the least. But most families there use a similar schedule to mine. I have 1.5 hours with him in the morning and 3.5 hours with him before bed. So I get 5 waking, and his providers get 6 during the week. I think SAHers aren't necessarily getting the true picture of how a lot of working moms do things. It probably makes them feel better about quitting work, but it's not necessarily reality. Most of us are doing our best to strike a good balance between providing for and taking care of our kids.

You completely missed the point. We're talking about infants here. Children that can't understand social settings and crave one on one attention. A school aged child craves interaction with other children and adults and it's healthy for them to be in that setting.

If you're happy with your choice there's no need to get all up in arms, defensive and trying to offend others just because we see things differently. I don't doubt you're trying to do your best. I never said that. What I'm saying is that when you're not with your child when they're awake you're definitely not raising them.

I was just reading the thread in General Parenting about toddlers doing lists while putting themselves to sleep and a lady mentioned her toddler repeating what he hears in daycare all day. A lot of parents came later on to say that this is how they know what goes on in daycare. How awful is that? Obviously I didn't say anything there but it must be really really sad not to know what goes on with your child all day and just hope they'll "let it out" while going to sleep in the end of the day. I'm so sorry for the little ones who go through this... It's sad to know that this is the best some parents can provide for their kids... I wish we all could afford staying home with our kids.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Me too. Babies and toddlers should be with their moms or other relatives. Ideally. (But of course many of do not live in an ideal world.)

And when kids reach school age, moms need to do something separate from their children. something that gives them their own identity and makes them strong and interesting. I'm sorry, but I know so many moms of school-age children who do nothing but gossip and fight to get their names on charity event committees - oh, and then they fight over table assignments at these events. It's pathetic, and they are terrible role models for their children. Also, signing your children up for twenty after-school activities a year so you can play an extra round of tennis each afternoon isn't really good parenting either.

I'm amazed that there are so many people who have this idyllic fantasy about what every family should be and are very condescending and judgmental about anyone that doesn't fit their little white picket fence daydream. What, are you still 14, and thinking about what motherhood "should be"?

Despite your sexist attitude that moms are the only ones who can care for their babies, there are some moms and grandmothers who are not very good at caring for their babies. There are some dads that are good at it. There are some parents who are just not well suited to being SAHP. Every family has to decide what is best for them as a family. Even WOH parents can make time to get that special bonding in with children.

And for each of your helicopter parents who fight to be involved with school events, there is another completely distant parent who can't even remember the last time they went to a function for their child.

You don't read very well. First, I didn't say anything about dads not being good caregivers. This is a thread about daycare, and I was agreeing with OP's thoughts on daycare. I said that babies are best with their moms OR OTHER RELATIVES. Not in room for ten hours a day with 15 other infants.

Also, I didn't say or imply anything about helicopter parents, you nitwit .And I was not talking about school events. I wrote clearly that I was referring to charity functions. Not school functions.