Anonymous
10/21/2011 17:57
Subject: Re:Norwood, Holton or WES?
Anonymous wrote:The groups are somewhat fluid. Children do change groups between years and (more rarely) within years. Group composition also changes, at least in reading, after the first few years as late readers catch up and skills like interpretive ability become more important.
Social grouping can but does not necessarily follow from academic group. I have one child whose friends are generally in the same group and one who has a wider spectrum of friends.
Not saying that I am right and PP is wrong; I think we just have a slightly different take based on personal experience. I do agree that the idea of prepping over the summer to target a certain group is disturbing.
How do you know if your child is in the top group?
Anonymous
10/21/2011 17:01
Subject: Norwood, Holton or WES?
I have had kids in both private and public. To be honest, public schools have more brainiacs. I suspect that their families are very practical. There is also rumor in the public schools, that the private schools have more mediocre kids.
OK, that said, the curriculum in good private schools is much richer. Science comes earlier, social studies, art, music, and so on. That helps kids later on with things like reading comprehension since they have been exposed to more topics. They will have better vocabularies too. However, this can easily be overcome with enriching activities like reading about the moon walk, then taking a trip to the Air and Space Museum, or talk about locks in a canal then take a look at our canal.
Math is better and more rigorous in public schools.
OK, that said, the curriculum in good private schools is much richer. Science comes earlier, social studies, art, music, and so on. That helps kids later on with things like reading comprehension since they have been exposed to more topics. They will have better vocabularies too. However, this can easily be overcome with enriching activities like reading about the moon walk, then taking a trip to the Air and Space Museum, or talk about locks in a canal then take a look at our canal.
Math is better and more rigorous in public schools.
Anonymous
10/21/2011 16:19
Subject: Norwood, Holton or WES?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:
Hahahaha -- that's a good one! Your friend told you that? Maybe she was afraid to tell you the real reason -- her kid was too dumb for Holton.
quote=Anonymous]Hmm... I don't have kids at Holton, but the child of a friend was counseled out before high school because she was too bright. Holton felt they couldn't meet her needs. She moved to public school and found it much more rigorous.
I'm not buying the posts that claim Holton is academically rigorous.
Nope. She's really smart and has the awards to prove it.
Ask any educational consultant what they think about the relative merits of private vs. public for very gifted kids. Call up JHU CTY and ask them. Ask anybody who has broad experience with very bright kids.
You are probably correct, but what about for our average kids. I think that private school can do more for them than MCPS. I might be wrong though.
Anonymous
10/21/2011 16:19
Subject: Norwood, Holton or WES?
Anonymous wrote:Ask any educational consultant what they think about the relative merits of private vs. public for very gifted kids. Call up JHU CTY and ask them. Ask anybody who has broad experience with very bright kids.
I think we've crossed paths before on DCUM. Last time you were claiming that private schools can't meet the needs of very gifted kids, and that public schools are the only good option, you challenged me to read the Davidson message boards, saying they'd support your claim. I spent time looking at the Davidson board, and the parents there all seem very supportive of private schools for very gifted children, often recommending them over public schools.
Anonymous
10/21/2011 15:29
Subject: Re:Norwood, Holton or WES?
Anonymous wrote:OP, my biggest concern about Norwood is the ability grouping, which takes place at a very early age. Lots of schools do it, but Norwood does it so early on, and they believe in it so much that it becomes part of the culture. Unintended problems that can arise from this like kids hanging out with other kids from their ability group, and hence the parents tend to group based on that. Also, for the first time, I heard something really concerning this year. One parent actually had her child take classes over the summer to avoid being placed in a certain group. She found out exactly what that child needed to know by September to avoid lower groups (teachers will tell you if you ask nicely). While everyone should be trying to enrich their child's academic experience in the summer, this seemed to be a bit much. Also, once you are in a group, that's it, at least for the year, maybe forever, it is unlikely that you will get out. That was the motivation that this mother had for the extra work over the summer, she said that her daughter would never get out of the low groups once she was placed there.
If you like that style, then it is a nice place. I don't mean that in a snarky way, some people really like ability grouping.
The ability groups aren't fixed. My kid moved from the very bottom reading group to the top one in a matter of months.
That is a sad story, though. Imo, the problem isn't ability groups. The brighter and slower kids both have special needs. The problem is, both at Norwood and other local schools, that the middle, or grade level, groups aren't challenging enough. Local privates use grade level textbooks and curricula, but most kids in local privates are functioning at least two levels above grade level. The vast majority of kids at Norwood could be accelerated at least 2 years in reading and 1 in math. Ditto every other private in the region.
Anonymous
10/21/2011 15:23
Subject: Norwood, Holton or WES?
Anonymous wrote:
Hahahaha -- that's a good one! Your friend told you that? Maybe she was afraid to tell you the real reason -- her kid was too dumb for Holton.
quote=Anonymous]Hmm... I don't have kids at Holton, but the child of a friend was counseled out before high school because she was too bright. Holton felt they couldn't meet her needs. She moved to public school and found it much more rigorous.
I'm not buying the posts that claim Holton is academically rigorous.
Nope. She's really smart and has the awards to prove it.
Ask any educational consultant what they think about the relative merits of private vs. public for very gifted kids. Call up JHU CTY and ask them. Ask anybody who has broad experience with very bright kids.
Anonymous
10/21/2011 15:18
Subject: Norwood, Holton or WES?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Hmm... I don't have kids at Holton, but the child of a friend was counseled out before high school because she was too bright. Holton felt they couldn't meet her needs. She moved to public school and found it much more rigorous.
I'm not buying the posts that claim Holton is academically rigorous.
That is what your friend said that Holton said...
However, MCPS can put many of these private schools to shame, including Norwood, WES, and Holton.
I've had kids at 2 of these schools and MCPS, and MCPS is unquestionably more rigorous academically, at least for bright kids. It's not even a contest.
Anonymous
10/21/2011 15:18
Subject: Norwood, Holton or WES?
Anonymous wrote:Ability grouping is for the benefit of the children, and those that benefit the most from it are not the more advanced ones. The so-called "average (or below average) young children" blossom intellectually in their own pace when are properly cared for (love and professional education services). On the other hand, many smart kids are unable to develop into well-rounded individuals. Ability grouping is not a matter of pride for the parent, but a way to help all us in raising happy kids.
OMG!
Anonymous
10/21/2011 14:15
Subject: Norwood, Holton or WES?
Ability grouping is for the benefit of the children, and those that benefit the most from it are not the more advanced ones. The so-called "average (or below average) young children" blossom intellectually in their own pace when are properly cared for (love and professional education services). On the other hand, many smart kids are unable to develop into well-rounded individuals. Ability grouping is not a matter of pride for the parent, but a way to help all us in raising happy kids.
Anonymous
10/21/2011 13:55
Subject: Norwood, Holton or WES?
I have two children at Norwood and movement has happened with groupings during the year with both of my kids. They work hard to make sure the children are challenged but not frustrated. And if that's not the case, they adjust (up or down) accordingly.
Anonymous
10/21/2011 11:02
Subject: Re:Norwood, Holton or WES?
The groups are somewhat fluid. Children do change groups between years and (more rarely) within years. Group composition also changes, at least in reading, after the first few years as late readers catch up and skills like interpretive ability become more important.
Social grouping can but does not necessarily follow from academic group. I have one child whose friends are generally in the same group and one who has a wider spectrum of friends.
Not saying that I am right and PP is wrong; I think we just have a slightly different take based on personal experience. I do agree that the idea of prepping over the summer to target a certain group is disturbing.
Social grouping can but does not necessarily follow from academic group. I have one child whose friends are generally in the same group and one who has a wider spectrum of friends.
Not saying that I am right and PP is wrong; I think we just have a slightly different take based on personal experience. I do agree that the idea of prepping over the summer to target a certain group is disturbing.
Anonymous
10/21/2011 10:36
Subject: Re:Norwood, Holton or WES?
OP, my biggest concern about Norwood is the ability grouping, which takes place at a very early age. Lots of schools do it, but Norwood does it so early on, and they believe in it so much that it becomes part of the culture. Unintended problems that can arise from this like kids hanging out with other kids from their ability group, and hence the parents tend to group based on that. Also, for the first time, I heard something really concerning this year. One parent actually had her child take classes over the summer to avoid being placed in a certain group. She found out exactly what that child needed to know by September to avoid lower groups (teachers will tell you if you ask nicely). While everyone should be trying to enrich their child's academic experience in the summer, this seemed to be a bit much. Also, once you are in a group, that's it, at least for the year, maybe forever, it is unlikely that you will get out. That was the motivation that this mother had for the extra work over the summer, she said that her daughter would never get out of the low groups once she was placed there.
If you like that style, then it is a nice place. I don't mean that in a snarky way, some people really like ability grouping.
If you like that style, then it is a nice place. I don't mean that in a snarky way, some people really like ability grouping.
Anonymous
10/21/2011 10:31
Subject: Norwood, Holton or WES?
16:41 poster. Sorry, when I said "fully agree with pp" I meant the pp of 16:29, not the mean one of 16:37.
Anonymous
10/21/2011 10:18
Subject: Norwood, Holton or WES?
A selection of Norwood's High School Placement for Class of 2011:
Sidwell: 5
GDS: 6
Holton-Arms: 1
NCS: 1
Potomac: 7
Maret: 2
Philips Academy: 1
and to many other fine private and public schools.
Class of 2007 College attendance, again a small selection:
Harvard: 3
Yale: 1
Princeton: 1
Cornell: 1
Stanford: 3
and to many other top colleges.
Sidwell: 5
GDS: 6
Holton-Arms: 1
NCS: 1
Potomac: 7
Maret: 2
Philips Academy: 1
and to many other fine private and public schools.
Class of 2007 College attendance, again a small selection:
Harvard: 3
Yale: 1
Princeton: 1
Cornell: 1
Stanford: 3
and to many other top colleges.
Anonymous
10/20/2011 16:41
Subject: Norwood, Holton or WES?
Fully agree with pp