Anonymous
Post 07/14/2011 22:16     Subject: Re:Why don't you believe in God?
Anonymous wrote:This to me is one of the saddest topics. I do believe in God and even though I can't see him, I know he is there. I also believe in the Bible. I just don;t even know what to say.


How do you know he's there? Also, do you believe in a literal interpretation of the bible? If so, then you fall in to the category of christian that I can not tolerate.
Anonymous
Post 07/14/2011 21:16     Subject: Why don't you believe in God?
Anonymous wrote:OP - please tell me you're not going to end this all with: "To be continued at a meeting in the local hall ... bring a friend ... we will explore the issues ... you will find yourself ... blah blah ... " or "Send me $20 and you'll receive the word of God ... blah blah ... "!


Um, no!

Objective truth without God, coming up next...need to put the kids to bed first
Anonymous
Post 07/14/2011 20:49     Subject: Why don't you believe in God?
OP - please tell me you're not going to end this all with: "To be continued at a meeting in the local hall ... bring a friend ... we will explore the issues ... you will find yourself ... blah blah ... " or "Send me $20 and you'll receive the word of God ... blah blah ... "!
Anonymous
Post 07/14/2011 20:46     Subject: Why don't you believe in God?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Let's assume for the moment that because we do not have an explanation for the existence of matter, we have to posit a creator. Okay. That doesn't get you to God as any major world religion defines him. It just gets you a creator.


That is fine! If we call God the Creator, the First Mover, does that change some of the professed atheists' position? Because very few of the PPs who professed atheism specifically stated they do not believe in a Creator. They just had problems with various religions.


As soon as you call God a Creator, you are envisioning God as an intelligent being. Physics does not require an intelligent being to explain the creation of the Universe. Physics does not know what, if anything existed prior to that moment, but the standard model handles everything from T=0.


I don't think it follows that, as soon as you call God a Creator, you are envisioning an intelligent being. Does a creator need to be intelligent? does it need to be a "being"? Isn't saying this a bit antropomorphic? Whatever it is, God is our only word for it. And the Standard Model does indeed only tell you about everything from T>0. T=0 is the great mystery.
Anonymous
Post 07/14/2011 20:38     Subject: Why don't you believe in God?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Let's assume for the moment that because we do not have an explanation for the existence of matter, we have to posit a creator. Okay. That doesn't get you to God as any major world religion defines him. It just gets you a creator.


That is fine! If we call God the Creator, the First Mover, does that change some of the professed atheists' position? Because very few of the PPs who professed atheism specifically stated they do not believe in a Creator. They just had problems with various religions.


As soon as you call God a Creator, you are envisioning God as an intelligent being. Physics does not require an intelligent being to explain the creation of the Universe. Physics does not know what, if anything existed prior to that moment, but the standard model handles everything from T=0.
Anonymous
Post 07/14/2011 20:32     Subject: Why don't you believe in God?
Anonymous wrote:Why is energy not more implausible than god. Can you create god? Store god? Sell god? Repeat the release of god in a laboratory?

We may never know how energy came to be, but there are certainly scientifically measureable ways of seeing it.


I didn't say more plausible. I said more implausible.
Anonymous
Post 07/14/2011 20:27     Subject: Why don't you believe in God?
One of my co-workers ;

When something good happens - it's God (she points above). When something really bad happens she says it's God's will.

When she said God was helping her with something (somewhat trivial) I had a family member dying of cancer who was not helped so it did make me feel annoyed to say the least. I couldn't help feeling ...scornful I guess is the right word, I do feel bad saying that.
Anonymous
Post 07/14/2011 20:20     Subject: Why don't you believe in God?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Have you seen the movie "Religulous" - Bill Mayher?

This will answer your question.

There are other gods who existed before Jesus who have the exact same birthday, all had 12 disciples and all arose from the dead etc. They were recorded historically as existing before Jesus. They faded away (can't remember their names) and Jesus made it mainstream. This is also brought up in the movie Religulous.


Really, you are going to get your religious information from a talk show host?


I've seen it too, this movie is actually very good. It answers the question of why someone might not believe. So no need for that sarcastic response.
Anonymous
Post 07/14/2011 19:57     Subject: Re:Why don't you believe in God?
Anonymous wrote:
Life is about suffering. It just is. This is what "God" wants. We need to deal with it. Might not be the kid of childish religious belief that postulates a big kind daddy in the sky. But it is none the less religious and contains a truth.


Christianity and Buddhism are sort of similar on this issue. Sometimes suffering is necessary. We grow the most when we are challenged. And suffering is always the result of attachment. Good or Bad, it just is.


That's true. But the Buddha always looks so serene. Jesus looks like I feel.
Anonymous
Post 07/14/2011 19:37     Subject: Re:Why don't you believe in God?
Life is about suffering. It just is. This is what "God" wants. We need to deal with it. Might not be the kid of childish religious belief that postulates a big kind daddy in the sky. But it is none the less religious and contains a truth.


Christianity and Buddhism are sort of similar on this issue. Sometimes suffering is necessary. We grow the most when we are challenged. And suffering is always the result of attachment. Good or Bad, it just is.
Anonymous
Post 07/14/2011 19:35     Subject: Re:Why don't you believe in God?
So when someone doesn't find God in this journey, people who make this argument say "his heart is closed", "his search was not genuine", "he was not ready to receive God". In other words, the failure to find God is the fault of the seeker. That's incredibly condescending.


I understand your argument. But I truly believe that people who honestly and openly seek God (or whatever they call their higher power) will find Him. I think it's impossible not to. I think God wants us to look for Him.

I'm not talking about the whole heaven and hell, Southern Baptist stuff. I'm talking about a simple spiritual connection with your creator.

Anonymous
Post 07/14/2011 18:58     Subject: Why don't you believe in God?
Why is energy not more implausible than god. Can you create god? Store god? Sell god? Repeat the release of god in a laboratory?

We may never know how energy came to be, but there are certainly scientifically measureable ways of seeing it.
Anonymous
Post 07/14/2011 18:48     Subject: Why don't you believe in God?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:

Energy is not more implausible than God.


I love this thought!
Anonymous
Post 07/14/2011 18:47     Subject: Re:Why don't you believe in God?
Anonymous wrote:I grew up Catholic, and was a believer, mostly, until my early 20's. I used to question why God would allow my mother, very much a believing woman, to be so unhappy. She was married to my alcoholic, abusive (to her and my brothers) father, and had taken a vow, which is why I assume she never left. Meanwhile, my brothers and I lived in a very unhealthy household, to say the least. I would pray for things to change, but they never did. Then, when I was 23, my brother either took his own life or died an accidental death (inconclusive autopsy). I pretty much lost any faith I had at this point.

Mostly, everything about organized religion (any one, not just Catholicism/Christianity) just rings false for me. I heard so many religious platitudes upon my brother's death (God has a better plan, he's in a better place, etc. etc.) - and frankly, it pissed me off, and sounded like complete bullshit. A better plan? He was 25 and had his whole life ahead of him. He hadn't lived a happy life up until that point, but he was starting to get things together. Being in the grave was a better plan?

Do I believe there's something bigger than us out there? Yes, probably. Do I believe that something/someone cares whether I pray or is listening (no) or that I need to go to church? No. Is there an afterlife? I hope so, but I think, probably not.


One thing I always thought the Catholics got right. Their churches are full of images of Jesus suffering on the Cross. These images strongly say (without words): "God suffered in this life. Why should you expect to do better?". When I was young, this thought did not bring me any comfort. But, now that I am old, I understand it. Life is about suffering. It just is. This is what "God" wants. We need to deal with it. Might not be the kid of childish religious belief that postulates a big kind daddy in the sky. But it is none the less religious and contains a truth.
Anonymous
Post 07/14/2011 18:00     Subject: Re:Why don't you believe in God?
Anonymous wrote:This to me is one of the saddest topics. I do believe in God and even though I can't see him, I know he is there. I also believe in the Bible. I just don;t even know what to say.


Well then turn that knowledge into something that will inspire others to believe. Pity isn't going to do it. Jesus didn't sulk around all day.