Anonymous wrote:Hey, my kid is happy on the waitlist. His friends are waitlisted or rejected. All bright kids who spent thousands on TJ prep classes… he doesn’t even want to go anymore, so may just pull off the waitlist. He didn’t do the prep classes except a couple online sessions, so he thought he would just get rejected compared to kids who did the classes. I think we are thinking base school is better as a chance to stick out more and also have time to participate in more extracurriculars, sports etc. and have more of a normal high school experience. Everyone has their preference.

I posted earlier upthread. Years ago, my kid was accepted and we turned it down. It was ultimately a great decision but difficult at the time. Kid is heading to an ivy…had a great and enriching HS experience.

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Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:According to DD, the PSE this year seemed like it was 5th/6th grade difficulty, which would mean that it would have been even harder to fairly decide who to waitlist this year.

My DC got accepted with an incorrect PSE

I mean, if all they're doing is just rolling the dice, they should just call it the lottery that it is and stop pretending that it's still an elite school.

he average GPA of accepted kids is going to be something like a 3.9, in all honors/AAP, with at least Algebra 1, although most will have Geometry or Algebra 2. Many probably have 2 years of a foreign language. How is that not elite? Because they cannot accept every kid with similar stats?

Because it's not that hard to get a 4.0 GPA in middle school? Which might be why some kids are applying for an elite school to begin with?

Students don't even have to finish an easy PSE to get in. That's not elite by any stretch of the imagination.

This is a public school. It is meant to serve kids who are interested in STEM and need more of a challenge. A small number of kids will be accepted with a GPS below a 3.9 but the majority are going to be higher than that.




I agree, kids who didn’t finish the essays or the math problem should not have been accepted.

As for grades, plenty of MS kids would tell you that it is hard to get a 4.0, especially in honors/AAP. I know you won’t believe that but most kids are not earning a 4.0. I understand being disappointed but calling kids who were accepted names and saying that they are not “elite” is unnecessary.

You could take only kids with 4.0 GPAs who completed everything and still not accept all the kids, then what is your argument?

You have to admit everyone makes mistakes, especially when under timed pressure. The SPS prompt and the PSE prompts are both important, but at the end of the process, if you can't standout, you blend in with the other two thousand plus applicants. I suspect the admissions has always had leniency for the PSE from this and last year.

Additionally, I agree with you on the regard accepting strictly 4.0 gpas isn't optimal, because it disregards students who take courses with higher rigor, i.e 4.0 with algebra 1 versus a lower grade in geometry, algebra 2, or precalculus. An elite school like TJ would want to value academic exploration, character, etc., over a transcript.

Students and parents are disappointed, which is understandable. TJ is a great school and people want to attend. It is disappointing to not get in. You comfort your child. You tell them that they have great grades and would be a great fit. You tell them that only 20% of the kids who applied were accepted. You agree that it is upsetting and that you’re sorry they were not accepted.

No matter what standard they set, someone will complain. It will be worse in 4 years. Just go read the college boards.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:According to DD, the PSE this year seemed like it was 5th/6th grade difficulty, which would mean that it would have been even harder to fairly decide who to waitlist this year.

My DC got accepted with an incorrect PSE

I mean, if all they're doing is just rolling the dice, they should just call it the lottery that it is and stop pretending that it's still an elite school.

he average GPA of accepted kids is going to be something like a 3.9, in all honors/AAP, with at least Algebra 1, although most will have Geometry or Algebra 2. Many probably have 2 years of a foreign language. How is that not elite? Because they cannot accept every kid with similar stats?

We don't know that. The data is not available. They don't have a list with scores that shows how they accepted the top 500 candidates.
They selected some with a high GPA, some with a lower GPA (sorry, but 3.7 or 3.8 in middle school is not a great GPA), some with perfect PSE, and some who didn't finish their essays. That's not elite, that's mediocre.

Things to consider:
- There are trolls in this forum, they can post random stat to create opinion.
- Students are rank compare to their peers in their school, lower stat from low performing MS can get accepted if they are in quota.
- Kid can say they don’t want to go to TJ on their essay.
- Experience factor is considered.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:2,762 kids applied and they have space for 500 or so kids. Lots of kids with great grades, who are in geometry or algebra 2, and who think they did well on the math problem are not going to be accepted. And if they had a quant test, many of those kids would have the same score, it wouldn’t change much.

The vast majority of the kids not selected have a good case for being selected. So do the kids who were accepted.

It's easy to say that when you don't have a test and you can't check the data.
This is not an excuse for a lottery or rejecting kids with better grades or better performance in the math part. If there is a quant test and taking SOLs into account, the decisions would carry weight. Right now, we have people in this thread saying that the SPS - something that has very little to do with STEM ability - mattered more.

You don’t think that the kids accepted Pass Advanced on the SOLs? Take a look at the A1H SOL scores for 7th grade, the Pass Advanced rate is close to 90%. All of these kids have high grades in honors and AAP classes.

No one knows what mattered more because we don’t know how anything is graded. Parents whose kids were not accepted are speculating because they are disappointed. Their kids grades and scores look the same as the kids accepted. It is unclear how kids are selected. That said, I would bet that the MAP and SOL scores of the kids accepted and the kids not accepted are close to the same as well.

The one change I would make is to change the Algebra 1 requirement to Geometry.

They’re speculating because the process isn’t transparent. It’s fine that you’d bet the MAP and SOL scores of accepted and non-accepted students are similar—but without actual data, that’s just an assumption. I’d argue the opposite: without transparency, there’s just as much reason to believe the scores aren’t as close as you suggest.

Have you looked at the SOL scores for A1H in 7th grade? Easy enough to go and look. The Pass Advanced rate is stupidly high.

You can argue all you want that the scores are different, go for it, you don’t know any more than I do. If it makes you feel better that your kid must be better than the kids who were accepted and probably had higher scores and would have crushed a quant test, go for it.

We prepared our kid with a reminder that he did the best that he could, he practiced the prompt writing and has done well in all his classes. With all of that, we expected 2,000 or more kids applied with similar stats. It is, essentially a lottery. Hopefully he was accepted but he would do well in his base school if he wasn’t. And the fact that he wasn’t accepted did not reflect on his school work or his ability. The kids applying are similar enough that differentiation is hard. And this isn’t going to be the first time this happens, college apps in 4 years are going to be similar, worse given that many of the colleges he is likely to apply to are even more selective.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:According to DD, the PSE this year seemed like it was 5th/6th grade difficulty, which would mean that it would have been even harder to fairly decide who to waitlist this year.

My DC got accepted with an incorrect PSE

I mean, if all they're doing is just rolling the dice, they should just call it the lottery that it is and stop pretending that it's still an elite school.

he average GPA of accepted kids is going to be something like a 3.9, in all honors/AAP, with at least Algebra 1, although most will have Geometry or Algebra 2. Many probably have 2 years of a foreign language. How is that not elite? Because they cannot accept every kid with similar stats?

Because it's not that hard to get a 4.0 GPA in middle school? Which might be why some kids are applying for an elite school to begin with?

Students don't even have to finish an easy PSE to get in. That's not elite by any stretch of the imagination.

This is a public school. It is meant to serve kids who are interested in STEM and need more of a challenge. A small number of kids will be accepted with a GPS below a 3.9 but the majority are going to be higher than that.

I agree, kids who didn’t finish the essays or the math problem should not have been accepted.

As for grades, plenty of MS kids would tell you that it is hard to get a 4.0, especially in honors/AAP. I know you won’t believe that but most kids are not earning a 4.0. I understand being disappointed but calling kids who were accepted names and saying that they are not “elite” is unnecessary.

You could take only kids with 4.0 GPAs who completed everything and still not accept all the kids, then what is your argument?

It's not calling anyone names to call a duck a duck. The very premise of "elite" is that you are not just considering people who are "good" (i.e. 4.0 plus an easy PSE); you want people who can consistently do well on relatively challenging STEM problems (which a 4.0 GPA does not consistently measure from student to student). Most students who are disappointed not only did well in the (admittedly flimsy) measurables, but also have had plenty of experiences and tests in schools where they've been able to compare themselves directly to their peers. If they know they're better and then get fed this "but everybody's good" nonsense, you can probably understand why that doesn't land well.

All that said, I'm not sure why you're pretending to be confused about what the argument is. The argument has been constant throughout - why not add more, objective, merit-based metrics to the decision process to help all of these "identically strong" students distinguish themselves from one another? At least that way they'd be able to say there's a reason why someone might have gotten in over someone else.

+1

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:According to DD, the PSE this year seemed like it was 5th/6th grade difficulty, which would mean that it would have been even harder to fairly decide who to waitlist this year.

My DC got accepted with an incorrect PSE

I mean, if all they're doing is just rolling the dice, they should just call it the lottery that it is and stop pretending that it's still an elite school.

he average GPA of accepted kids is going to be something like a 3.9, in all honors/AAP, with at least Algebra 1, although most will have Geometry or Algebra 2. Many probably have 2 years of a foreign language. How is that not elite? Because they cannot accept every kid with similar stats?

Because it's not that hard to get a 4.0 GPA in middle school? Which might be why some kids are applying for an elite school to begin with?

Students don't even have to finish an easy PSE to get in. That's not elite by any stretch of the imagination.

This is a public school. It is meant to serve kids who are interested in STEM and need more of a challenge. A small number of kids will be accepted with a GPS below a 3.9 but the majority are going to be higher than that.

I agree, kids who didn’t finish the essays or the math problem should not have been accepted.

As for grades, plenty of MS kids would tell you that it is hard to get a 4.0, especially in honors/AAP. I know you won’t believe that but most kids are not earning a 4.0. I understand being disappointed but calling kids who were accepted names and saying that they are not “elite” is unnecessary.

You could take only kids with 4.0 GPAs who completed everything and still not accept all the kids, then what is your argument?

It's not calling anyone names to call a duck a duck. The very premise of "elite" is that you are not just considering people who are "good" (i.e. 4.0 plus an easy PSE); you want people who can consistently do well on relatively challenging STEM problems (which a 4.0 GPA does not consistently measure from student to student). Most students who are disappointed not only did well in the (admittedly flimsy) measurables, but also have had plenty of experiences and tests in schools where they've been able to compare themselves directly to their peers. If they know they're better and then get fed this "but everybody's good" nonsense, you can probably understand why that doesn't land well.

All that said, I'm not sure why you're pretending to be confused about what the argument is. The argument has been constant throughout - why not add more, objective, merit-based metrics to the decision process to help all of these "identically strong" students distinguish themselves from one another? At least that way they'd be able to say there's a reason why someone might have gotten in over someone else.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:According to DD, the PSE this year seemed like it was 5th/6th grade difficulty, which would mean that it would have been even harder to fairly decide who to waitlist this year.

My DC got accepted with an incorrect PSE

I mean, if all they're doing is just rolling the dice, they should just call it the lottery that it is and stop pretending that it's still an elite school.

he average GPA of accepted kids is going to be something like a 3.9, in all honors/AAP, with at least Algebra 1, although most will have Geometry or Algebra 2. Many probably have 2 years of a foreign language. How is that not elite? Because they cannot accept every kid with similar stats?

Because it's not that hard to get a 4.0 GPA in middle school? Which might be why some kids are applying for an elite school to begin with?

Students don't even have to finish an easy PSE to get in. That's not elite by any stretch of the imagination.

This is a public school. It is meant to serve kids who are interested in STEM and need more of a challenge. A small number of kids will be accepted with a GPS below a 3.9 but the majority are going to be higher than that.

I agree, kids who didn’t finish the essays or the math problem should not have been accepted.

As for grades, plenty of MS kids would tell you that it is hard to get a 4.0, especially in honors/AAP. I know you won’t believe that but most kids are not earning a 4.0. I understand being disappointed but calling kids who were accepted names and saying that they are not “elite” is unnecessary.

You could take only kids with 4.0 GPAs who completed everything and still not accept all the kids, then what is your argument?

Nobody is calling kids names here. And for the record, this wasn’t my post—but I’m sorry if it came across that way to you.
The real concern is the process itself and how subjective it is. When there isn’t clear consistency, like students being admitted without completing essays, it raises fair questions about how decisions are being made.
As for GPA, if a student is already struggling to maintain a 4.0, it’s reasonable to question whether TJ is the right fit. That’s not an insult to anyone. It’s just being realistic about what a highly demanding school requires.

Anonymous wrote:For the parents that had children fall short and are upset, it’s a reflection on you not the child.

A good parent feels what their child feels. When your child is hurt or disappointed, of course you’re going to be upset too—that’s part of caring deeply. It’s not about blaming the parent; it’s about standing with your child when something affects them.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:According to DD, the PSE this year seemed like it was 5th/6th grade difficulty, which would mean that it would have been even harder to fairly decide who to waitlist this year.

My DC got accepted with an incorrect PSE

I mean, if all they're doing is just rolling the dice, they should just call it the lottery that it is and stop pretending that it's still an elite school.

he average GPA of accepted kids is going to be something like a 3.9, in all honors/AAP, with at least Algebra 1, although most will have Geometry or Algebra 2. Many probably have 2 years of a foreign language. How is that not elite? Because they cannot accept every kid with similar stats?

Because it's not that hard to get a 4.0 GPA in middle school? Which might be why some kids are applying for an elite school to begin with?

Students don't even have to finish an easy PSE to get in. That's not elite by any stretch of the imagination.

This is a public school. It is meant to serve kids who are interested in STEM and need more of a challenge. A small number of kids will be accepted with a GPS below a 3.9 but the majority are going to be higher than that.

I agree, kids who didn’t finish the essays or the math problem should not have been accepted.

As for grades, plenty of MS kids would tell you that it is hard to get a 4.0, especially in honors/AAP. I know you won’t believe that but most kids are not earning a 4.0. I understand being disappointed but calling kids who were accepted names and saying that they are not “elite” is unnecessary.

You could take only kids with 4.0 GPAs who completed everything and still not accept all the kids, then what is your argument?

Anonymous wrote:For the parents that had children fall short and are upset, it’s a reflection on you not the child.

I'm assuming you've never had kids?

For the parents that had children fall short and are upset, it’s a reflection on you not the child.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:2,762 kids applied and they have space for 500 or so kids. Lots of kids with great grades, who are in geometry or algebra 2, and who think they did well on the math problem are not going to be accepted. And if they had a quant test, many of those kids would have the same score, it wouldn’t change much.

The vast majority of the kids not selected have a good case for being selected. So do the kids who were accepted.

It's easy to say that when you don't have a test and you can't check the data.
This is not an excuse for a lottery or rejecting kids with better grades or better performance in the math part. If there is a quant test and taking SOLs into account, the decisions would carry weight. Right now, we have people in this thread saying that the SPS - something that has very little to do with STEM ability - mattered more.

You don’t think that the kids accepted Pass Advanced on the SOLs? Take a look at the A1H SOL scores for 7th grade, the Pass Advanced rate is close to 90%. All of these kids have high grades in honors and AAP classes.

No one knows what mattered more because we don’t know how anything is graded. Parents whose kids were not accepted are speculating because they are disappointed. Their kids grades and scores look the same as the kids accepted. It is unclear how kids are selected. That said, I would bet that the MAP and SOL scores of the kids accepted and the kids not accepted are close to the same as well.

The one change I would make is to change the Algebra 1 requirement to Geometry.

They’re speculating because the process isn’t transparent. It’s fine that you’d bet the MAP and SOL scores of accepted and non-accepted students are similar—but without actual data, that’s just an assumption. I’d argue the opposite: without transparency, there’s just as much reason to believe the scores aren’t as close as you suggest.

Anonymous wrote:2,762 kids applied and they have space for 500 or so kids. Lots of kids with great grades, who are in geometry or algebra 2, and who think they did well on the math problem are not going to be accepted. And if they had a quant test, many of those kids would have the same score, it wouldn’t change much.

The vast majority of the kids not selected have a good case for being selected. So do the kids who were accepted.

I think you're defending the indefensible here. If you have a group as large as 2,762 kids and you're trying to make the argument that they're all basically the same, it just doesn't fly. If you can't find some reasonable, objective way to determine their individual talents rather than treat them as a big homogeneous group, some of the good ones will be treated unfairly, and they'll know it because they know who their peers are.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:2,762 kids applied and they have space for 500 or so kids. Lots of kids with great grades, who are in geometry or algebra 2, and who think they did well on the math problem are not going to be accepted. And if they had a quant test, many of those kids would have the same score, it wouldn’t change much.

The vast majority of the kids not selected have a good case for being selected. So do the kids who were accepted.

It's easy to say that when you don't have a test and you can't check the data.
This is not an excuse for a lottery or rejecting kids with better grades or better performance in the math part. If there is a quant test and taking SOLs into account, the decisions would carry weight. Right now, we have people in this thread saying that the SPS - something that has very little to do with STEM ability - mattered more.

You don’t think that the kids accepted Pass Advanced on the SOLs? Take a look at the A1H SOL scores for 7th grade, the Pass Advanced rate is close to 90%. All of these kids have high grades in honors and AAP classes.

No one knows what mattered more because we don’t know how anything is graded. Parents whose kids were not accepted are speculating because they are disappointed. Their kids grades and scores look the same as the kids accepted. It is unclear how kids are selected. That said, I would bet that the MAP and SOL scores of the kids accepted and the kids not accepted are close to the same as well.

The one change I would make is to change the Algebra 1 requirement to Geometry.