Anonymous wrote:I've actually done some research on this because I will be moving at some stage during my kids childhood (they are currently 1 and 3). I've found that the more moves during childhood the higher the risk of adulthood depression. I've concluded that any moves will have to be finalised by the time the oldest is 10. I would never move when my oldest is 15.

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2024/07/240717120958.htm

oh really, never? You can’t think of a single circumstance in which you could imagine yourself making your teenager move despite the *gasp* possible increased risk of dEpReSsIoN when they grow up? Nothing could be possibly better worse than that in your mind?

Anonymous wrote:Literally thousands of military kids get moved in HS. Vast majority do NOT find it traumatic and the few who do likely had other unrelated susceptibilities a priori.

This whole thread is nuts.

Military families are often surrounded by other military families, so they have peers with similar circumstances. Also it is prepped into them early on and there is an understanding of the moves being related to a public service.

Mom and dad deciding to pursue their dreams in a foreign country and expecting their kids upheave their entire lives with just a few months notice as if they’re accessories and not real people with real lives they’re invested in is a different scenario.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My family (7th grade son and 9th grade daughter) are moving to Spain as soon as the school year ends. My husband and I are both from there and our kids have been there before and speak Spanish so its familiar.

My son is honestly fine with moving, he's not happy but not sad either so he's pretty neutral. My 15 year old daughter on the other hand is completely devastated. She yells at my husband and I saying we are the worst parents ever and she slams doors and doesn't come out of her room anymore unless its for dinner. She's not budging and she's known that we are moving for about 2 weeks now. She won't tell her friends or talk to relatives and doesn't really believe that we are actually moving (she keeps repeating "we aren't moving" or "I am not going" over and over again.)

My question is; will she get over this? How harmful is this for her development and feelings as we move and process this?

Based on the reaction she might not get over it. If my parents had done this to me at that age, I would still be mad at them today. She is also clearly telling you that this is harmful for her. I would listen, go to therapy and rethink the plans.

Did she even know you were considering this? Did you talk with the kids about how they would feel if it happened? Something this big should have had more buy in and not come out of left field….

You need therapy to unpack why you let your kids dictate life plans for their entire family. Don’t parentify your kids because you’re too afraid to make a decision on their behalf that’s in their best interest. THAT is actually bad parenting.

DP, but basically all of parenting is making decisions with your children in consideration. That doesn’t mean they should get to “dictate” what the family does, but I also don’t think parents should expect to make major life decisions based solely on their wants without it affecting their kids.

The teen years can be hard, especially for girls. My family moved when I was in 8th grade. I fell in with a fast crowd trying to fit in and definitely rebelled out of anger (it wasn’t our first move). Maybe an international school will be more transient, but I moved to a place where kids had all been together since K.

Maybe I would have been a rebellious teen anyway, but the friend group I moved away from was definitely a tamer crowd, so I’m not so sure. When I married DH I made it a stipulation that we would not move once our kids hit middle school (unless absolute necessity like job loss and needing to relocate). The kids are the priority during the tween/teen years because this is such a critical time to launching them into successful adulthood. Career aspirations can wait.

Of course some kids don’t mind change and are able to easily fit into a new crowd. But behavior is communication and what OP’s daughter is communicating does not bode well for her mental health in a foreign country.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My family (7th grade son and 9th grade daughter) are moving to Spain as soon as the school year ends. My husband and I are both from there and our kids have been there before and speak Spanish so its familiar.

My son is honestly fine with moving, he's not happy but not sad either so he's pretty neutral. My 15 year old daughter on the other hand is completely devastated. She yells at my husband and I saying we are the worst parents ever and she slams doors and doesn't come out of her room anymore unless its for dinner. She's not budging and she's known that we are moving for about 2 weeks now. She won't tell her friends or talk to relatives and doesn't really believe that we are actually moving (she keeps repeating "we aren't moving" or "I am not going" over and over again.)

My question is; will she get over this? How harmful is this for her development and feelings as we move and process this?

Based on the reaction she might not get over it. If my parents had done this to me at that age, I would still be mad at them today. She is also clearly telling you that this is harmful for her. I would listen, go to therapy and rethink the plans.

Did she even know you were considering this? Did you talk with the kids about how they would feel if it happened? Something this big should have had more buy in and not come out of left field….

You need therapy to unpack why you let your kids dictate life plans for their entire family. Don’t parentify your kids because you’re too afraid to make a decision on their behalf that’s in their best interest. THAT is actually bad parenting.

Wow, glad you feel comfortable being a jerk on an anonymous forum.

I didn’t say any of what you are assuming. BTW, no where does this person say this is in the kid’s best interest because of x,y, or z.

Kids don’t dictate life plans but if I was considering a move like this, with kids of this age, I’d at least discuss it with them as part of a family meeting. Then it wouldn’t be a shock and they would learn how to process the idea early. Could have a chance to ask questions etc. Which is how kids learn and become excited by new ideas. It’s not that hard to respect your own kids and function as a family.

You’re trying to make OP feel guilty/scared by telling her you’d resent your parents forever for making you move, and that her own daughter might not ever “get over it”… And yet you have the nerve to accuse OTHER people of being anonymous jerks?

Like I said, you need therapy.

So I need therapy because I replied truthfully and directly for an opinion they asked for? That is hilarious.

They should feel bad/guilty. That is a crappy thing to do to your kids without buy in (especially at these ages) and it doesn’t sound like they have buy in or even prepped the kids this might happen. Their replies/explanations are also callus and emotionally dismissive. So no, I am not offering blind support to the parents. And, yes, if my parents did this to me it would have damaged our relationship forever. Not going to pretend otherwise.

Don’t ask for advice or opinions that you don’t want an honest answer to. Not everyone will be supportive and in looking at the replies, most aren’t.

And you were free to scroll on by if you didn’t like what I said instead of being defensive and name calling.

Anonymous wrote:I've actually done some research on this because I will be moving at some stage during my kids childhood (they are currently 1 and 3). I've found that the more moves during childhood the higher the risk of adulthood depression. I've concluded that any moves will have to be finalised by the time the oldest is 10. I would never move when my oldest is 15.

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2024/07/240717120958.htm

+1

Look to the research rather than random folks opinions. Yes, moving in late childhood can have permanent negative impacts.

https://medium.com/@washingtonpost/moving-as-a-child-can-change-who-you-are-as-an-adult-c40e46740156

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Moving as a child can change who you are as an adult
Switching homes can be a highly disruptive experience for a child, particularly one in their early teens
Washington Post
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Jun 17, 2016

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By Christopher Ingraham

Mywife and I recently packed our 2-year-old twins into their car seats and moved them halfway across the country to a new home in Minnesota. During the five or so days we spent on the road with them, we had ample opportunity to reflect on what sorts of terrible harms we were inflicting on their fragile little toddler brains.

Did they understand what was going on? Would they like the new place when they got there? Were we destroying their chances of ever getting into Harvard by letting them watch eight hours of garbage cartoons in the back seat of a Honda CR-V, day in, day out?

As it turns out, a study recently published in the American Journal of Preventive Medicine has some answers to those questions. British researcher Roger Webb and his colleagues took advantage of an amazingly complete data set — containing records on literally every single person born in Denmark between 1971 and 1997 — to investigate how moving in childhood affected outcomes later in life.

The focused on a number of negative outcomes including suicide attempts, criminality, psychiatric disorders, drug abuse, and unnatural mortality. Moving during childhood was linked to increased incidence of all these negative outcomes later in life. Moving multiple times in a single year made long-term harms even more likely.

And the group of youngsters most likely to feel the ill effects of moving are kids in early adolescence, between 12 and 14. A child who goes through a residential move at age 14 has double the risk of suicide by middle age. Her risks of engaging in violent crime of abusing drugs more than double. And these risk ratios hold true even after controlling for parents’ income and psychiatric history."

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It is a trauma event. Don’t be so sure that it won’t also be harming your son. He may act like he doesn’t care but some kids hide and can’t process their emotions.

If this is a lark because you’ve watched House Hunters International and want to be an expat, just wait until your son graduates. If this is your only job opportunity and it’s the only way to keep your family clothes and fed then get both kids therapy stat.

Therapy will help them process their pain, let them be heard and give them tools to manage. I’d recommend CBT rather than talk therapy. Find someone who will do it remotely so you can keep it up if needed when you move. Good luck!

You people are so ridiculously over the top dramatic it’s actually unhinged.

Is moving difficult? Yes. Will there be a rough adjustment period? Absolutely. Is it traumatic? Not unless there are other issues.

OP should obviously be more sensitive to her daughter’s feelings, but she is NOT going to irreparably harm her by moving. That’s an insane take.

Smart, caring parents are jumping on the opportunity to move their families out of the failing empire that is the United States.

Per the above poster, research does show that moving at this late age of childhood can have lifelong negative impact. I also did research on science of this before a move with kids in late elementary. We had to move, but we decided we would not again after that until both kids had graduated.

I've actually done some research on this because I will be moving at some stage during my kids childhood (they are currently 1 and 3). I've found that the more moves during childhood the higher the risk of adulthood depression. I've concluded that any moves will have to be finalised by the time the oldest is 10. I would never move when my oldest is 15.

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2024/07/240717120958.htm

Anonymous wrote:Life happens. Do what it takes to get them on board. Go to therapy. Get her a horse. They may thank you for saving their lives with the move one day.

+100 to getting therapy. Get the 15 yr old solo sessions and get a few sessions of family therapy to work out all the feelings. And then do your homework ahead of time for her school in Spain, find out how they make new students feel welcome. HS is hard enough, all the kids at her school will have probably had a year already to get to know each other (if their system is similar to ours), and so your DD will not only be The New Kid, but a new kid who didn't grow up there. It may be triply traumatic. Have supports and resources ready there so she doesn't have to figure everything out on her own, since honestly you and your DH are probably not going to have a lot of idea how to support her because you didn't even think this would be a big deal before you decided.

I moved in 8th and it was a life-changing negative.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I moved 45 minutes away from where I grew up when I was a sophomore because my mom remarried. The hardest part was making new friends in a community where kids had grown up together. I made some, but only kept in touch with one later on. The friendships weren’t that deep. I didn’t get to keep friends from where I grew up because it was too far to get together regularly and this was pre-drivers license and cell phones. I still wish we hadn’t moved (and my mom thinks it was a mistake). I don’t know about the word “trauma”, but I definitely felt a disorienting and long-term difficulty with friendships because of the move. I agree with others who suggest getting both kids a therapist. They need an adult to help them process this, and that adult may not be able to be you. Having a “get over it” attitude may result in them being distant from you through high school and as young adults.

Oh please. I was born and raised in the same community. Went to school with the same people K-12 and guess how many I'm in touch with now? ZERO.

Same here.

Meanwhile my husband who moved in high school has dozens of friends from both his old school and new school that he regularly texts with/calls/visits. It’s personality.

Why do ppl always say things like this? I grew up like this and it was a great way to grow up, underrated really. Im not close to many now, but I also dont do alot of things I did growing up because im an adult now. Doesn't they weren't import or a good thing growing up. This situation would be far different if it was a move that was absolutely necessary with no other options, but its not.

I think “great way to grow up” is largely determined by your immediate family situation and less about living in the same place your whole life. I grew up in one small southern town and it was insular and awful but it would have been a whole lot better if my parents had cared that they had a kid. My friends with involved parents seemed to have good childhoods (even the kids who moved to our town as teenagers) and the rest of us ran out of there and never looked back.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I moved 45 minutes away from where I grew up when I was a sophomore because my mom remarried. The hardest part was making new friends in a community where kids had grown up together. I made some, but only kept in touch with one later on. The friendships weren’t that deep. I didn’t get to keep friends from where I grew up because it was too far to get together regularly and this was pre-drivers license and cell phones. I still wish we hadn’t moved (and my mom thinks it was a mistake). I don’t know about the word “trauma”, but I definitely felt a disorienting and long-term difficulty with friendships because of the move. I agree with others who suggest getting both kids a therapist. They need an adult to help them process this, and that adult may not be able to be you. Having a “get over it” attitude may result in them being distant from you through high school and as young adults.

Oh please. I was born and raised in the same community. Went to school with the same people K-12 and guess how many I'm in touch with now? ZERO.

Same here.

Meanwhile my husband who moved in high school has dozens of friends from both his old school and new school that he regularly texts with/calls/visits. It’s personality.

Why do ppl always say things like this? I grew up like this and it was a great way to grow up, underrated really. Im not close to many now, but I also dont do alot of things I did growing up because im an adult now. Doesn't they weren't import or a good thing growing up. This situation would be far different if it was a move that was absolutely necessary with no other options, but its not.

You seem to be making several ill-conceived points that conflict with each other.

Like how she can’t contact her dear high school friends now because she grew up? Are her former friends stuck in forever adolescence in the Twilight Zone?

Not at all what I meant, but ok.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I moved 45 minutes away from where I grew up when I was a sophomore because my mom remarried. The hardest part was making new friends in a community where kids had grown up together. I made some, but only kept in touch with one later on. The friendships weren’t that deep. I didn’t get to keep friends from where I grew up because it was too far to get together regularly and this was pre-drivers license and cell phones. I still wish we hadn’t moved (and my mom thinks it was a mistake). I don’t know about the word “trauma”, but I definitely felt a disorienting and long-term difficulty with friendships because of the move. I agree with others who suggest getting both kids a therapist. They need an adult to help them process this, and that adult may not be able to be you. Having a “get over it” attitude may result in them being distant from you through high school and as young adults.

Oh please. I was born and raised in the same community. Went to school with the same people K-12 and guess how many I'm in touch with now? ZERO.

Same here.

Meanwhile my husband who moved in high school has dozens of friends from both his old school and new school that he regularly texts with/calls/visits. It’s personality.

Why do ppl always say things like this? I grew up like this and it was a great way to grow up, underrated really. Im not close to many now, but I also dont do alot of things I did growing up because im an adult now. Doesn't they weren't import or a good thing growing up. This situation would be far different if it was a move that was absolutely necessary with no other options, but its not.

You seem to be making several ill-conceived points that conflict with each other.

What do you mean? The comment that I was replaying sounded like it was saying that it doesn't matter because, they aren't in contact with those ppl as adults anyway. I was saying that just because you may not have childhood friends or do things you did as a kid as an adult doesn't mean they didnt have value or weren't important.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I moved 45 minutes away from where I grew up when I was a sophomore because my mom remarried. The hardest part was making new friends in a community where kids had grown up together. I made some, but only kept in touch with one later on. The friendships weren’t that deep. I didn’t get to keep friends from where I grew up because it was too far to get together regularly and this was pre-drivers license and cell phones. I still wish we hadn’t moved (and my mom thinks it was a mistake). I don’t know about the word “trauma”, but I definitely felt a disorienting and long-term difficulty with friendships because of the move. I agree with others who suggest getting both kids a therapist. They need an adult to help them process this, and that adult may not be able to be you. Having a “get over it” attitude may result in them being distant from you through high school and as young adults.

Oh please. I was born and raised in the same community. Went to school with the same people K-12 and guess how many I'm in touch with now? ZERO.

Same here.

Meanwhile my husband who moved in high school has dozens of friends from both his old school and new school that he regularly texts with/calls/visits. It’s personality.

Why do ppl always say things like this? I grew up like this and it was a great way to grow up, underrated really. Im not close to many now, but I also dont do alot of things I did growing up because im an adult now. Doesn't they weren't import or a good thing growing up. This situation would be far different if it was a move that was absolutely necessary with no other options, but its not.

You seem to be making several ill-conceived points that conflict with each other.

Like how she can’t contact her dear high school friends now because she grew up? Are her former friends stuck in forever adolescence in the Twilight Zone?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I moved 45 minutes away from where I grew up when I was a sophomore because my mom remarried. The hardest part was making new friends in a community where kids had grown up together. I made some, but only kept in touch with one later on. The friendships weren’t that deep. I didn’t get to keep friends from where I grew up because it was too far to get together regularly and this was pre-drivers license and cell phones. I still wish we hadn’t moved (and my mom thinks it was a mistake). I don’t know about the word “trauma”, but I definitely felt a disorienting and long-term difficulty with friendships because of the move. I agree with others who suggest getting both kids a therapist. They need an adult to help them process this, and that adult may not be able to be you. Having a “get over it” attitude may result in them being distant from you through high school and as young adults.

Oh please. I was born and raised in the same community. Went to school with the same people K-12 and guess how many I'm in touch with now? ZERO.

Same here.

Meanwhile my husband who moved in high school has dozens of friends from both his old school and new school that he regularly texts with/calls/visits. It’s personality.

Why do ppl always say things like this? I grew up like this and it was a great way to grow up, underrated really. Im not close to many now, but I also dont do alot of things I did growing up because im an adult now. Doesn't they weren't import or a good thing growing up. This situation would be far different if it was a move that was absolutely necessary with no other options, but its not.

You seem to be making several ill-conceived points that conflict with each other.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My family (7th grade son and 9th grade daughter) are moving to Spain as soon as the school year ends. My husband and I are both from there and our kids have been there before and speak Spanish so its familiar.

My son is honestly fine with moving, he's not happy but not sad either so he's pretty neutral. My 15 year old daughter on the other hand is completely devastated. She yells at my husband and I saying we are the worst parents ever and she slams doors and doesn't come out of her room anymore unless its for dinner. She's not budging and she's known that we are moving for about 2 weeks now. She won't tell her friends or talk to relatives and doesn't really believe that we are actually moving (she keeps repeating "we aren't moving" or "I am not going" over and over again.)

My question is; will she get over this? How harmful is this for her development and feelings as we move and process this?

Based on the reaction she might not get over it. If my parents had done this to me at that age, I would still be mad at them today. She is also clearly telling you that this is harmful for her. I would listen, go to therapy and rethink the plans.

Did she even know you were considering this? Did you talk with the kids about how they would feel if it happened? Something this big should have had more buy in and not come out of left field….

You need therapy to unpack why you let your kids dictate life plans for their entire family. Don’t parentify your kids because you’re too afraid to make a decision on their behalf that’s in their best interest. THAT is actually bad parenting.

Wow, glad you feel comfortable being a jerk on an anonymous forum.

I didn’t say any of what you are assuming. BTW, no where does this person say this is in the kid’s best interest because of x,y, or z.

Kids don’t dictate life plans but if I was considering a move like this, with kids of this age, I’d at least discuss it with them as part of a family meeting. Then it wouldn’t be a shock and they would learn how to process the idea early. Could have a chance to ask questions etc. Which is how kids learn and become excited by new ideas. It’s not that hard to respect your own kids and function as a family.

You’re trying to make OP feel guilty/scared by telling her you’d resent your parents forever for making you move, and that her own daughter might not ever “get over it”… And yet you have the nerve to accuse OTHER people of being anonymous jerks?

Like I said, you need therapy.