Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Absolutely obsessed with these people who assume the woman resentful of the mental load must be a SAHM or has some sort of “for fun” job. I know moms in hetero marriages who are the default parent and household manager and make double what the husband makes.

Statistically these cases are rare as you are well aware.

Maybe making double is rare. Women working full-time with kids along with their husbands is not. In fact, in 45% of marriages, the wife earns the same or more.

https://www.pewresearch.org/social-trends/2023/04/13/in-a-growing-share-of-u-s-marriages-husbands-and-wives-earn-about-the-same/

+1

I make almost 3 times what my husband does, and I know a number of other women in a similar position. We are all the default parents and carry the majority of the mental load.

So stop.

And neglect the children? Yeah, great solution.

I stopped cooking and my husband looked like a deer in the headlights at first but then he started scrambling. First he ordered take out, then bought prepared meals at Whole Foods, and now he’s getting the meal boxes with ingredients that he cooks. No, my kids weren’t neglected. And, it turns out, he could and would cook if I stopped cooking. I did the same thing with Summer camps: told him in December that I was no longer in charge of securing Summer camps, let him know if he didn’t have a plan for the kids by early January, we’d be screwed. Lo and be hold he got it done and is now on Year 3 of being Summer camp organizer. I no longer think about it…well except for now while writing this. Some things will go awry, it will be ugly sometimes but it’s worth it.

PPs aren’t suggesting shifting the load to their husbands. They’re suggesting abandoning key work—like finding summer camps—altogether, insisting it isn’t actually necessary and that these women’s stressors are all in their heads.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You can be free of the resentment whenever you choose to put it down.

I am the superior parent. Without my spouse, the kids would be okay. They have me. Without me, the kids are FOOKED. I win. I take pride in it. I don't sit and stew about how their other parent could never. I pat myself on the back because I can, and I did. If you're better with the mental load, GOOD FOR YOU.

Nobody can take advantage of your mental labor without your consent. You either need to restructure your household or reframe your mentality. The latter is always within your control.

I have a friend currently going through what OP is describing and I find this statement you made really interesting. I'm at a loss as to how to help her because my husband is an equal partner so while I hear what she is telling me, I am struggling with understanding it but mostly I am struggling with how to help her (for now I just listen and extend sympathy and I don't think I can solve their problems but I have directed her to books or other resources that people have suggested).

So if you don't mind, would you tell me more about what you said? She works full-time in a demanding medical profession where she is out of the house and on her feet dealing with a lot of trauma at work. On top of that, she handles everything for the two kids because he just won't read the emails from the school about picture day, etc., and her youngest is too little to remember things like that on his own. The mental labor she talks about is being the one to keep track of and do everything, so how can she feel as though her husband isn't taking advantage of the fact that she keeps everything in place?

I’m not that poster, but this is a deeper relationship thing. It really isn’t just about getting him to understand. He understands.

It’s like when you are sitting down to dinner and your mom asks if she can have some ketchup, and you respond by getting up and getting some ketchup. But if your child asks if she can have some ketchup, you respond by saying “yes” and maybe telling them where to get it. They are both asking the same question, and you know that they both want the same thing, for you to get the ketchup, but your mom has more power than you and your child has less power, so the response is different.

Your friend’s husband isn’t an idiot. He knows that Christmas presents need to be purchased and food needs to be prepared. Creating this dynamic where she is responsible for asking him to do it is about establishing power structures. It’s not that he doesn’t understand what’s being asked of him.

I don’t know what the way is to get out of it. I mean, if you are the child in the situation I described and you ask for the ketchup…How do you get your mom to go get the ketchup, at least some of the time?
There is nothing you can do in the moment. You have to change the entire dynamic of the relationship.

Use the example of a woman who does the shopping for presents because she assumes her man won't and she doesn't disappoint the kids. She might be surprised to find he also doesn't want to disappoint the kids, but she's not willing to risk the kids' disappointment. He knows that, he knows she won't let them go without, and so he does nothing, knowing she's got it covered.

Drop it once, and you'll see just how quickly he learns how to shop for presents. Same with cooking dinner, shopping for groceries, etc. If you're doing those things because your spouse isn't reliable, your spouse isn't doing those things because you are. Either learn to get your satisfaction from being reliable/responsible/the one who gets it done, or stop doing it. If your spouse truly can't pick up the slack, well, you can buy presents, make dinner, etc. as a single parent without the dead weight.

I don’t think this is right.
Unless your household is completely dysfunctional or you don’t celebrate Christmas, there is an expectation that there will be presents on Christmas morning and that someone is going to do the whole Santa thing.
The assumption is that she is going to handle it because she is the lesser ranking spouse and therefore has more of the grunt work.
If she doesn’t do it, he isn’t automatically going to pick up the slack. He’s going to be mad. Maybe it’s worth the fight. I don’t know.

But the reason she buys the presents and makes the dinner and gets something for her MIL isn’t just because she cares about her kids having the presents. It’s because she doesn’t want to invite conflict.

Anonymous wrote:I’m still waiting for the extreme mental and physical load of being the primary breadwinner thread.

Anonymous wrote:I’m still waiting for the extreme mental and physical load of being the primary breadwinner thread.

Anonymous wrote:I’m still waiting for the extreme mental and physical load of being the primary breadwinner thread.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s unconscious, but this is about establishing power in the relationship. No modern man would say to his wife “I’m the leader of this household,” but they communicate in this more subtle, non-verbal way.
By framing the relationship in a way where she just does things, but he has to be asked to do normal things like clean the house, watch the kids, prepare food, or buy Christmas presents, he (likely unconsciously) asserts that he is the more powerful person in the relationship without actually having to say it.

That’s what you are resentful about, OP. It isn’t the “mental load.” It’s that he is treating you as “lesser than” he is.

OP here. He definitely treats me as though I’m less than him in many ways.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You can be free of the resentment whenever you choose to put it down.

I am the superior parent. Without my spouse, the kids would be okay. They have me. Without me, the kids are FOOKED. I win. I take pride in it. I don't sit and stew about how their other parent could never. I pat myself on the back because I can, and I did. If you're better with the mental load, GOOD FOR YOU.

Nobody can take advantage of your mental labor without your consent. You either need to restructure your household or reframe your mentality. The latter is always within your control.

I have a friend currently going through what OP is describing and I find this statement you made really interesting. I'm at a loss as to how to help her because my husband is an equal partner so while I hear what she is telling me, I am struggling with understanding it but mostly I am struggling with how to help her (for now I just listen and extend sympathy and I don't think I can solve their problems but I have directed her to books or other resources that people have suggested).

So if you don't mind, would you tell me more about what you said? She works full-time in a demanding medical profession where she is out of the house and on her feet dealing with a lot of trauma at work. On top of that, she handles everything for the two kids because he just won't read the emails from the school about picture day, etc., and her youngest is too little to remember things like that on his own. The mental labor she talks about is being the one to keep track of and do everything, so how can she feel as though her husband isn't taking advantage of the fact that she keeps everything in place?

I’m not that poster, but this is a deeper relationship thing. It really isn’t just about getting him to understand. He understands.

It’s like when you are sitting down to dinner and your mom asks if she can have some ketchup, and you respond by getting up and getting some ketchup. But if your child asks if she can have some ketchup, you respond by saying “yes” and maybe telling them where to get it. They are both asking the same question, and you know that they both want the same thing, for you to get the ketchup, but your mom has more power than you and your child has less power, so the response is different.

Your friend’s husband isn’t an idiot. He knows that Christmas presents need to be purchased and food needs to be prepared. Creating this dynamic where she is responsible for asking him to do it is about establishing power structures. It’s not that he doesn’t understand what’s being asked of him.

I don’t know what the way is to get out of it. I mean, if you are the child in the situation I described and you ask for the ketchup…How do you get your mom to go get the ketchup, at least some of the time?
There is nothing you can do in the moment. You have to change the entire dynamic of the relationship.

Use the example of a woman who does the shopping for presents because she assumes her man won't and she doesn't disappoint the kids. She might be surprised to find he also doesn't want to disappoint the kids, but she's not willing to risk the kids' disappointment. He knows that, he knows she won't let them go without, and so he does nothing, knowing she's got it covered.

Drop it once, and you'll see just how quickly he learns how to shop for presents. Same with cooking dinner, shopping for groceries, etc. If you're doing those things because your spouse isn't reliable, your spouse isn't doing those things because you are. Either learn to get your satisfaction from being reliable/responsible/the one who gets it done, or stop doing it. If your spouse truly can't pick up the slack, well, you can buy presents, make dinner, etc. as a single parent without the dead weight.

I don’t think this is right.
Unless your household is completely dysfunctional or you don’t celebrate Christmas, there is an expectation that there will be presents on Christmas morning and that someone is going to do the whole Santa thing.
The assumption is that she is going to handle it because she is the lesser ranking spouse and therefore has more of the grunt work.
If she doesn’t do it, he isn’t automatically going to pick up the slack. He’s going to be mad. Maybe it’s worth the fight. I don’t know.

But the reason she buys the presents and makes the dinner and gets something for her MIL isn’t just because she cares about her kids having the presents. It’s because she doesn’t want to invite conflict.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote: But the reason she buys the presents and makes the dinner and gets something for her MIL isn’t just because she cares about her kids having the presents. It’s because she doesn’t want to invite conflict.

Conflict with whom, the husband? If I'm too mentally stressed to be making the dinner, I'm not making the dinner. I need more room to get kids presents shipped and a gift card for MIL.

No. I’m sure that women are worried that if their husbands are angry with them, it will create conflict with the dog.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote: But the reason she buys the presents and makes the dinner and gets something for her MIL isn’t just because she cares about her kids having the presents. It’s because she doesn’t want to invite conflict.

Conflict with whom, the husband? If I'm too mentally stressed to be making the dinner, I'm not making the dinner. I need more room to get kids presents shipped and a gift card for MIL.

Anonymous wrote: But the reason she buys the presents and makes the dinner and gets something for her MIL isn’t just because she cares about her kids having the presents. It’s because she doesn’t want to invite conflict.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You can be free of the resentment whenever you choose to put it down.

I am the superior parent. Without my spouse, the kids would be okay. They have me. Without me, the kids are FOOKED. I win. I take pride in it. I don't sit and stew about how their other parent could never. I pat myself on the back because I can, and I did. If you're better with the mental load, GOOD FOR YOU.

Nobody can take advantage of your mental labor without your consent. You either need to restructure your household or reframe your mentality. The latter is always within your control.

I have a friend currently going through what OP is describing and I find this statement you made really interesting. I'm at a loss as to how to help her because my husband is an equal partner so while I hear what she is telling me, I am struggling with understanding it but mostly I am struggling with how to help her (for now I just listen and extend sympathy and I don't think I can solve their problems but I have directed her to books or other resources that people have suggested).

So if you don't mind, would you tell me more about what you said? She works full-time in a demanding medical profession where she is out of the house and on her feet dealing with a lot of trauma at work. On top of that, she handles everything for the two kids because he just won't read the emails from the school about picture day, etc., and her youngest is too little to remember things like that on his own. The mental labor she talks about is being the one to keep track of and do everything, so how can she feel as though her husband isn't taking advantage of the fact that she keeps everything in place?

I’m not that poster, but this is a deeper relationship thing. It really isn’t just about getting him to understand. He understands.

It’s like when you are sitting down to dinner and your mom asks if she can have some ketchup, and you respond by getting up and getting some ketchup. But if your child asks if she can have some ketchup, you respond by saying “yes” and maybe telling them where to get it. They are both asking the same question, and you know that they both want the same thing, for you to get the ketchup, but your mom has more power than you and your child has less power, so the response is different.

Your friend’s husband isn’t an idiot. He knows that Christmas presents need to be purchased and food needs to be prepared. Creating this dynamic where she is responsible for asking him to do it is about establishing power structures. It’s not that he doesn’t understand what’s being asked of him.

I don’t know what the way is to get out of it. I mean, if you are the child in the situation I described and you ask for the ketchup…How do you get your mom to go get the ketchup, at least some of the time?
There is nothing you can do in the moment. You have to change the entire dynamic of the relationship.

Use the example of a woman who does the shopping for presents because she assumes her man won't and she doesn't disappoint the kids. She might be surprised to find he also doesn't want to disappoint the kids, but she's not willing to risk the kids' disappointment. He knows that, he knows she won't let them go without, and so he does nothing, knowing she's got it covered.

Drop it once, and you'll see just how quickly he learns how to shop for presents. Same with cooking dinner, shopping for groceries, etc. If you're doing those things because your spouse isn't reliable, your spouse isn't doing those things because you are. Either learn to get your satisfaction from being reliable/responsible/the one who gets it done, or stop doing it. If your spouse truly can't pick up the slack, well, you can buy presents, make dinner, etc. as a single parent without the dead weight.

Anonymous wrote:
Cool well I’m an UMC American and we have standards including a tree, stockings and some presents for Christmas.

PPs aren’t suggesting shifting the load to their husbands. They’re suggesting abandoning key work—like finding summer camps—altogether, insisting it isn’t actually necessary and that these women’s stressors are all in their heads.