Anonymous wrote:He then also said to hang them.

Yeah, and…?

Anonymous wrote:I'm MAGA, and of course I tend to agree with Trump that their actual motive was to start an insurrection or coup. That said, I think it is plausible that they honestly believe their own strange assertions that Trump will send the military into the streets to harass soccer moms and put black people into concentration camps. Although I don't see any evidence that Trump wants to do these things, I've heard several democratic figures literally saying that Trump would send the military to round up black people and send them to camps. (This seems really expensive and unnecessary but whatever- it's their fantasy.) If you actually believe this kind of conspiracy stuff, it is rational to want to tell military members not to follow orders like that. And I agree, if Trump tries to send troops to round up the 50M black people in America, they should not follow that order. I just don't believe Trump will do that.

Like many, I remember Trump posting ads in newspapers calling for the death penalty for 5 Black and Brown teens — who much later were exonerated. I actually believe “this kind of conspiracy stuff”— because the best predictor of someone’s future behavior is their past behavior.,He’s now sending the sort-of “military to round up” Brown “people and send them to camps” — including citizens, without warrants, with the blessings of the majority of the Supreme Court. He has sent the military to several cities with Black mayors and significant Black populations supposedly because of “crime “. When I get off the train to walk to my nephew’s soccer games (yes, soccer auntie here) I pass through groups of armed soldiers, some with dogs. The pieces are already in place. Why don’t you believe that Trump will shift from rounding up Brown people to rounding up Black people? Where —and why — are you thinking he will somehow draw the line?

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:Another 80/20 topic that Democrats are on the wrong side of.

80% of Americans support the military obeying illegal orders? Got a link to that poll, chief?

NP. I have a feeling the orders Trump is giving about murdering fishermen around the world by using military weapons to blow up their boats are illegal.

It's also not very popular. https://www.reuters.com/world/us/just-29-americans-support-us-military-killing-drug-suspects-reutersipsos-poll-2025-11-14/

You don't have to even say they are fishermen. There is no authorization for the use of military force against these targets, there are no rules of engagement that allow the military's actions, and there is no legal authorization for the general use of the military to enforce criminal statutes, including those pertaining to drug interdiction in open waters. This is way, way too close to what Duterte was doing in the Philippines.

The patriot act gives POTUS the authority to be judge jury and executioner if the target is labeled a terrorist. (See Obama and Bush jr for further examples)

There has to be some basis in fact that the people being murdered are, in fact, terrorists and not, you know, dudes going fishing for the day.

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Anonymous wrote:Yes if the Democrats are telling the military to disobey orders because it's Trump that is not good. That is treason. They should at least say please use your Jag advisors. If you are concerned about illegality, they should not be doing blanketed requests to derelict their duty and disobey orders. The Democrats need to be put in some type of penalized status. Perhaps a tribunal that they need to be sent out?

if you actually watch the video that is the subject of this thread, all they are saying is that they swore an oath to the constitution. Y'all reading much more into it and projecting. I wonder why.

But why have a video at all?

Why not? what is the objection? First Amendment and all.

the only people upset about this are the ones who know they are giving illegal orders and the people who have consumed the koolaid defending them

Why not?

These Senators gave no specifics at all...... and they couldn't because nothing the president has ordered is unlawful. They have implied he has - and in doing this they are sending the message that if a member of the military or intelligence community disagrees with an order they are given that they can refuse to obey it.
Putting out a video like this is ridiculous. Do these Senators have such little faith in our armed forces and intelligence community that they believe these men and women don't know or understand the oath they took?

It was irresponsible for them to put out this video. They created potentially dangerous situations.

I am old enough to remember the GOP imploring everyone to tone down the rhetoric after the Kirk murder.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:Yes if the Democrats are telling the military to disobey orders because it's Trump that is not good. That is treason. They should at least say please use your Jag advisors. If you are concerned about illegality, they should not be doing blanketed requests to derelict their duty and disobey orders. The Democrats need to be put in some type of penalized status. Perhaps a tribunal that they need to be sent out?

if you actually watch the video that is the subject of this thread, all they are saying is that they swore an oath to the constitution. Y'all reading much more into it and projecting. I wonder why.

But why have a video at all?

Why not? what is the objection? First Amendment and all.

the only people upset about this are the ones who know they are giving illegal orders and the people who have consumed the koolaid defending them

Why not?

These Senators gave no specifics at all...... and they couldn't because nothing the president has ordered is unlawful. They have implied he has - and in doing this they are sending the message that if a member of the military or intelligence community disagrees with an order they are given that they can refuse to obey it.
Putting out a video like this is ridiculous. Do these Senators have such little faith in our armed forces and intelligence community that they believe these men and women don't know or understand the oath they took?

It was irresponsible for them to put out this video. They created potentially dangerous situations.

You think it was irresponsible for them to put out the video. I don't. Do you think it was irresponsible for Trump to call for their murders? I do.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Another 80/20 topic that Democrats are on the wrong side of.

80% of Americans support the military obeying illegal orders? Got a link to that poll, chief?

NP. I have a feeling the orders Trump is giving about murdering fishermen around the world by using military weapons to blow up their boats are illegal.

It's also not very popular. https://www.reuters.com/world/us/just-29-americans-support-us-military-killing-drug-suspects-reutersipsos-poll-2025-11-14/

You don't have to even say they are fishermen. There is no authorization for the use of military force against these targets, there are no rules of engagement that allow the military's actions, and there is no legal authorization for the general use of the military to enforce criminal statutes, including those pertaining to drug interdiction in open waters. This is way, way too close to what Duterte was doing in the Philippines.

The patriot act gives POTUS the authority to be judge jury and executioner if the target is labeled a terrorist. (See Obama and Bush jr for further examples)

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes if the Democrats are telling the military to disobey orders because it's Trump that is not good. That is treason. They should at least say please use your Jag advisors. If you are concerned about illegality, they should not be doing blanketed requests to derelict their duty and disobey orders. The Democrats need to be put in some type of penalized status. Perhaps a tribunal that they need to be sent out?

if you actually watch the video that is the subject of this thread, all they are saying is that they swore an oath to the constitution. Y'all reading much more into it and projecting. I wonder why.

But why have a video at all?

Why not? what is the objection? First Amendment and all.

the only people upset about this are the ones who know they are giving illegal orders and the people who have consumed the koolaid defending them

Why not?

These Senators gave no specifics at all...... and they couldn't because nothing the president has ordered is unlawful. They have implied he has - and in doing this they are sending the message that if a member of the military or intelligence community disagrees with an order they are given that they can refuse to obey it.
Putting out a video like this is ridiculous. Do these Senators have such little faith in our armed forces and intelligence community that they believe these men and women don't know or understand the oath they took?

It was irresponsible for them to put out this video. They created potentially dangerous situations.

Anonymous wrote:I'm MAGA, and of course I tend to agree with Trump that their actual motive was to start an insurrection or coup. That said, I think it is plausible that they honestly believe their own strange assertions that Trump will send the military into the streets to harass soccer moms and put black people into concentration camps. Although I don't see any evidence that Trump wants to do these things, I've heard several democratic figures literally saying that Trump would send the military to round up black people and send them to camps. (This seems really expensive and unnecessary but whatever- it's their fantasy.) If you actually believe this kind of conspiracy stuff, it is rational to want to tell military members not to follow orders like that. And I agree, if Trump tries to send troops to round up the 50M black people in America, they should not follow that order. I just don't believe Trump will do that.

Please cite the "democratic figures" who "literally said that Trump would send the military to round up black people and send them to camps." I've seen comments about detention camps for undocumented migrants, but not specifically for Black people. Also, please cite the comments about harassing "soccer moms." (Do you mean WHITE soccer moms? Because that's the stereotype of soccer moms that first comes to mind.) That's another one I haven't heard and I spend hours every day reading/listening to political content.

PS. Why are you still MAGA? I mean, you may be a Republican, but why are you STILL MAGA? Really curious to know.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Another 80/20 topic that Democrats are on the wrong side of.

80% of Americans support the military obeying illegal orders? Got a link to that poll, chief?

NP. I have a feeling the orders Trump is giving about murdering fishermen around the world by using military weapons to blow up their boats are illegal.

It's also not very popular. https://www.reuters.com/world/us/just-29-americans-support-us-military-killing-drug-suspects-reutersipsos-poll-2025-11-14/

You don't have to even say they are fishermen. There is no authorization for the use of military force against these targets, there are no rules of engagement that allow the military's actions, and there is no legal authorization for the general use of the military to enforce criminal statutes, including those pertaining to drug interdiction in open waters. This is way, way too close to what Duterte was doing in the Philippines.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes if the Democrats are telling the military to disobey orders because it's Trump that is not good. That is treason. They should at least say please use your Jag advisors. If you are concerned about illegality, they should not be doing blanketed requests to derelict their duty and disobey orders. The Democrats need to be put in some type of penalized status. Perhaps a tribunal that they need to be sent out?

if you actually watch the video that is the subject of this thread, all they are saying is that they swore an oath to the constitution. Y'all reading much more into it and projecting. I wonder why.

But why have a video at all?

Why not? what is the objection? First Amendment and all.

the only people upset about this are the ones who know they are giving illegal orders and the people who have consumed the koolaid defending them

Why not?

These Senators gave no specifics at all...... and they couldn't because nothing the president has ordered is unlawful. They have implied he has - and in doing this they are sending the message that if a member of the military or intelligence community disagrees with an order they are given that they can refuse to obey it.
Putting out a video like this is ridiculous. Do these Senators have such little faith in our armed forces and intelligence community that they believe these men and women don't know or understand the oath they took?

It's more about the oaths Hegseth and Trump don't even care they have taken.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Illegal is not how you feel at the moment. There s a protocol in the military being told to ignore. This is what the dems want, a breakdown of society and chaos.

The lawmakers in the video didn’t say any specific orders were illegal. The military is told as a standard part of training that they must refuse to carry out illegal orders. There is no reason for the President to be upset about this unless he believes his orders are illegal.

If the soldiers have already been trained to not follow an illegal order then why did the politicians feel the need to make a public service announcement?

You there, desperately seeking a scrap of justification for Trump's response:
Hegseth has ordered that servicemen and women are not allowed to contact members of congress without his say so (so they can be punished for whistle blowing), he is pushing out officers who raise concerns about legality, he has clearly stated his mission to prioritize "lethality" over military rules of engagement and conduct. He has also been firing JAG officers or assigning them to immigration hearings. Trump has accused the congress people of sedition and DOJ is poised to jump at any hint Trump wants them prosecuted.

So who can someone serving in the military feel they can safely raise a concern to or ask a question?

Anonymous wrote:I'm MAGA, and of course I tend to agree with Trump that their actual motive was to start an insurrection or coup. That said, I think it is plausible that they honestly believe their own strange assertions that Trump will send the military into the streets to harass soccer moms and put black people into concentration camps. Although I don't see any evidence that Trump wants to do these things, I've heard several democratic figures literally saying that Trump would send the military to round up black people and send them to camps. (This seems really expensive and unnecessary but whatever- it's their fantasy.) If you actually believe this kind of conspiracy stuff, it is rational to want to tell military members not to follow orders like that. And I agree, if Trump tries to send troops to round up the 50M black people in America, they should not follow that order. I just don't believe Trump will do that.

Wait, you really see no evidence of this? Like nothing at all? Wow.

Anonymous wrote:Following illegal orders was one major cause of PtSd among Vietnam veterans. In the heat of the moment, it’s hard to tell a superior telling you to shoot an unarmed civilian or burn a village, no I can’t do that. But those are the things that you have nightmares about for the rest of your life. I feel awful for these young people who signed up to defend our country and are being asked to do unlawful things. Trump has shown time and time again that he doesn’t care about the military or veterans. He treats them like a machine and treats injured or captured vets about like you’d treat a car that had engine trouble.

I remember some horrifying story about how soldiers were forced to shoot children who approached because they were regularly used as a delivery system for explosive devices and the soldiers couldn’t take the risk.

And someone whose gravestone was etched with something like, “to the old woman I shot on orders, may God forgive me”

I’m probably not remembering either in exact words, they stay in my thoughts even as I try to forget ever reading them in the first place.

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Anonymous wrote:Trump has repeatedly threatened to deploy the military against his own countries. Clear violation of the posse comitatus act. So yes, they're being proactive in letting the military know they can disobey an order to be deployed against the American people.

Cite?

OMG, look at his truth social feed and his repeated comments about deploying US troops in our "horrble" cities - literally hundreds of references.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes if the Democrats are telling the military to disobey orders because it's Trump that is not good. That is treason. They should at least say please use your Jag advisors. If you are concerned about illegality, they should not be doing blanketed requests to derelict their duty and disobey orders. The Democrats need to be put in some type of penalized status. Perhaps a tribunal that they need to be sent out?

if you actually watch the video that is the subject of this thread, all they are saying is that they swore an oath to the constitution. Y'all reading much more into it and projecting. I wonder why.

But why have a video at all?

Why not? what is the objection? First Amendment and all.

the only people upset about this are the ones who know they are giving illegal orders and the people who have consumed the koolaid defending them

Why not?

These Senators gave no specifics at all...... and they couldn't because nothing the president has ordered is unlawful. They have implied he has - and in doing this they are sending the message that if a member of the military or intelligence community disagrees with an order they are given that they can refuse to obey it.
Putting out a video like this is ridiculous. Do these Senators have such little faith in our armed forces and intelligence community that they believe these men and women don't know or understand the oath they took?

He has, though

The national guard deployments and the bombings of civilian boats and the deployment of US troops on mexican soil - all illegal.