Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The problem, as the school adminstrator/counselor points out, is that for a host of practical reasons the counselor cannot and does not know what is going on. The kids on the other hand all do. Thus when a kid goes to see the counselor it's noticed. When questions, no matter how general or circumspect, start getting asked that's noticed as well.

Meanwhile the parents only find out after the damage has been done and are generally dealing with the immediate fall out from whatever straw was placed upon their camel's back.

Counselors are good for helping in the beginning, but the adults don't know what's percolating yet, and after the acceptance phase, but at that point it's usually too late and the issues are different.


There's also the slight problem that some of the potential solutions are not things that anyone who works at a school can ever recommend or suggest. A counselor can never, for ethical and liability reasons, suggest to punch back. By going to the counselor the "victim" is effectively limiting their own response options.


It's a horrible conundrum for kids, parents and school officials because there are no solutions and every action creates a reaction. Acknowledging both the pros and cons is important. Counselors can be helpful but are not a solution.

In the end, what's your advice to OP? What do you think is OP's best path to helping her DD get through this?

The one from page 8?

A lot depends on the grade and the size of the school.

The primary and very serious issue is her depression. She should see the counselor but not because of the bullying. That won't be fixed. Right now she needs to care about herself and you need to look at different schools. Going to the counselor will help with that because you are going to need the school's help finding a new school.

This summer I would suggest a longish trip. The type of trip she can come back from with a rebuilt persona. Hanging out with older but youngish family without you would also help. She has noone she feels she can trust or that understands her.

The hope is that over the summer she can rebuild her confidence and start with a clean slate

Short term, I would suggest embracing being the one that stands alone. Teach her to flail her elbows when they push her. One "accidental" whack to the nose will make them think twice. Come up with some cutting insults to use if needed. If she has dirt, now is the time to spill it. But otherwise advise her to stay as far away from them as possible. Join whatever it is that those girls look down upon (thats where her allies might be found) and hope she finds something she likes.

Other than that you have to leave her alone because you are also in danger of making things worse. She's in a chrysalis and needs to rebuild her ego. The child you knew is gone. Your purpose is now to help guide whatever 2.0 comes out of this.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The problem, as the school adminstrator/counselor points out, is that for a host of practical reasons the counselor cannot and does not know what is going on. The kids on the other hand all do. Thus when a kid goes to see the counselor it's noticed. When questions, no matter how general or circumspect, start getting asked that's noticed as well.

Meanwhile the parents only find out after the damage has been done and are generally dealing with the immediate fall out from whatever straw was placed upon their camel's back.

Counselors are good for helping in the beginning, but the adults don't know what's percolating yet, and after the acceptance phase, but at that point it's usually too late and the issues are different.


There's also the slight problem that some of the potential solutions are not things that anyone who works at a school can ever recommend or suggest. A counselor can never, for ethical and liability reasons, suggest to punch back. By going to the counselor the "victim" is effectively limiting their own response options.


It's a horrible conundrum for kids, parents and school officials because there are no solutions and every action creates a reaction. Acknowledging both the pros and cons is important. Counselors can be helpful but are not a solution.

In the end, what's your advice to OP? What do you think is OP's best path to helping her DD get through this?

The one from page 8?

A lot depends on the grade and the size of the school.

The primary and very serious issue is her depression. She should see the counselor but not because of the bullying. That won't be fixed. Right now she needs to care about herself and you need to look at different schools. Going to the counselor will help with that because you are going to need the school's help finding a new school.

This summer I would suggest a longish trip. The type of trip she can come back from with a rebuilt persona. Hanging out with older but youngish family without you would also help. She has noone she feels she can trust or that understands her.

The hope is that over the summer she can rebuild her confidence and start with a clean slate

Short term, I would suggest embracing being the one that stands alone. Teach her to flail her elbows when they push her. One "accidental" whack to the nose will make them think twice. Come up with some cutting insults to use if needed. If she has dirt, now is the time to spill it. But otherwise advise her to stay as far away from them as possible. Join whatever it is that those girls look down upon (thats where her allies might be found) and hope she finds something she likes.

Other than that you have to leave her alone because you are also in danger of making things worse. She's in a chrysalis and needs to rebuild her ego. The child you knew is gone. Your purpose is now to help guide whatever 2.0 comes out of this.

Wait, you think this girl should change schools over this situation?? Middle and high school are hard, the social drama sucks. It's also really common for things to get really uncomfortable because teens are learning to navigate hard situations and set their own boundaries. What are you teaching your daughter if the takeaway from the way these mean girls are acting (which is bad but not yet egregious or suspendable actions) is to totally disrupt all that is familiar to her and run to another school? What happens when she goes through all that, then her next school turns out to have typical teen social dynamics too? Still change schools again? Running away isn't going to develop her coping skills any better.

What do you think a parent should do if their child is engaging in self-harm, failing out of school and isolating themselves from family? That's not "typical teen social dynamics".

What "coping skills" do you think can be developed in their current situation?

I'm the PP you're replying to, and first off, stop catastrophising this situation. OP NEVER said her daughter is self-harming, and never said she's failing. She said this is taking a toll on her DD's mental health and her grades", but did not give details about either, so stop jumping to the worst conclusions.

Either way, what do I think the parent should do? Attend to her DD's mental health, first and foremost. Because if s/he doesn't attend to it, no matter where her DD goes to school, she's not going to be ok. OP has not named actually getting a therapist for her kid as one of her strategies or anything she's tried, so that is priority #1. Maybe OP should also see a therapist or parent coach too for herself.

Changing schools can sometimes be traumatic in and of itself, and maybe this is news to you but there probably isn't a middle or high school in the US that doesn't have at least some of these dynamics. So whatever is going on for OP in not knowing how to handle this, just moving schools does zero to actually help OP or OP's DD know how to handle this when it happens again. And it's likely to happen again.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The problem, as the school adminstrator/counselor points out, is that for a host of practical reasons the counselor cannot and does not know what is going on. The kids on the other hand all do. Thus when a kid goes to see the counselor it's noticed. When questions, no matter how general or circumspect, start getting asked that's noticed as well.

Meanwhile the parents only find out after the damage has been done and are generally dealing with the immediate fall out from whatever straw was placed upon their camel's back.

Counselors are good for helping in the beginning, but the adults don't know what's percolating yet, and after the acceptance phase, but at that point it's usually too late and the issues are different.


There's also the slight problem that some of the potential solutions are not things that anyone who works at a school can ever recommend or suggest. A counselor can never, for ethical and liability reasons, suggest to punch back. By going to the counselor the "victim" is effectively limiting their own response options.


It's a horrible conundrum for kids, parents and school officials because there are no solutions and every action creates a reaction. Acknowledging both the pros and cons is important. Counselors can be helpful but are not a solution.

In the end, what's your advice to OP? What do you think is OP's best path to helping her DD get through this?

The one from page 8?

A lot depends on the grade and the size of the school.

The primary and very serious issue is her depression. She should see the counselor but not because of the bullying. That won't be fixed. Right now she needs to care about herself and you need to look at different schools. Going to the counselor will help with that because you are going to need the school's help finding a new school.

This summer I would suggest a longish trip. The type of trip she can come back from with a rebuilt persona. Hanging out with older but youngish family without you would also help. She has noone she feels she can trust or that understands her.

The hope is that over the summer she can rebuild her confidence and start with a clean slate

Short term, I would suggest embracing being the one that stands alone. Teach her to flail her elbows when they push her. One "accidental" whack to the nose will make them think twice. Come up with some cutting insults to use if needed. If she has dirt, now is the time to spill it. But otherwise advise her to stay as far away from them as possible. Join whatever it is that those girls look down upon (thats where her allies might be found) and hope she finds something she likes.

Other than that you have to leave her alone because you are also in danger of making things worse. She's in a chrysalis and needs to rebuild her ego. The child you knew is gone. Your purpose is now to help guide whatever 2.0 comes out of this.

Wait, you think this girl should change schools over this situation?? Middle and high school are hard, the social drama sucks. It's also really common for things to get really uncomfortable because teens are learning to navigate hard situations and set their own boundaries. What are you teaching your daughter if the takeaway from the way these mean girls are acting (which is bad but not yet egregious or suspendable actions) is to totally disrupt all that is familiar to her and run to another school? What happens when she goes through all that, then her next school turns out to have typical teen social dynamics too? Still change schools again? Running away isn't going to develop her coping skills any better.

What do you think a parent should do if their child is engaging in self-harm, failing out of school and isolating themselves from family? That's not "typical teen social dynamics".

What "coping skills" do you think can be developed in their current situation?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The problem, as the school adminstrator/counselor points out, is that for a host of practical reasons the counselor cannot and does not know what is going on. The kids on the other hand all do. Thus when a kid goes to see the counselor it's noticed. When questions, no matter how general or circumspect, start getting asked that's noticed as well.

Meanwhile the parents only find out after the damage has been done and are generally dealing with the immediate fall out from whatever straw was placed upon their camel's back.

Counselors are good for helping in the beginning, but the adults don't know what's percolating yet, and after the acceptance phase, but at that point it's usually too late and the issues are different.


There's also the slight problem that some of the potential solutions are not things that anyone who works at a school can ever recommend or suggest. A counselor can never, for ethical and liability reasons, suggest to punch back. By going to the counselor the "victim" is effectively limiting their own response options.


It's a horrible conundrum for kids, parents and school officials because there are no solutions and every action creates a reaction. Acknowledging both the pros and cons is important. Counselors can be helpful but are not a solution.

In the end, what's your advice to OP? What do you think is OP's best path to helping her DD get through this?

The one from page 8?

A lot depends on the grade and the size of the school.

The primary and very serious issue is her depression. She should see the counselor but not because of the bullying. That won't be fixed. Right now she needs to care about herself and you need to look at different schools. Going to the counselor will help with that because you are going to need the school's help finding a new school.

This summer I would suggest a longish trip. The type of trip she can come back from with a rebuilt persona. Hanging out with older but youngish family without you would also help. She has noone she feels she can trust or that understands her.

The hope is that over the summer she can rebuild her confidence and start with a clean slate

Short term, I would suggest embracing being the one that stands alone. Teach her to flail her elbows when they push her. One "accidental" whack to the nose will make them think twice. Come up with some cutting insults to use if needed. If she has dirt, now is the time to spill it. But otherwise advise her to stay as far away from them as possible. Join whatever it is that those girls look down upon (thats where her allies might be found) and hope she finds something she likes.

Other than that you have to leave her alone because you are also in danger of making things worse. She's in a chrysalis and needs to rebuild her ego. The child you knew is gone. Your purpose is now to help guide whatever 2.0 comes out of this.

Wait, you think this girl should change schools over this situation?? Middle and high school are hard, the social drama sucks. It's also really common for things to get really uncomfortable because teens are learning to navigate hard situations and set their own boundaries. What are you teaching your daughter if the takeaway from the way these mean girls are acting (which is bad but not yet egregious or suspendable actions) is to totally disrupt all that is familiar to her and run to another school? What happens when she goes through all that, then her next school turns out to have typical teen social dynamics too? Still change schools again? Running away isn't going to develop her coping skills any better.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The problem, as the school adminstrator/counselor points out, is that for a host of practical reasons the counselor cannot and does not know what is going on. The kids on the other hand all do. Thus when a kid goes to see the counselor it's noticed. When questions, no matter how general or circumspect, start getting asked that's noticed as well.

Meanwhile the parents only find out after the damage has been done and are generally dealing with the immediate fall out from whatever straw was placed upon their camel's back.

Counselors are good for helping in the beginning, but the adults don't know what's percolating yet, and after the acceptance phase, but at that point it's usually too late and the issues are different.


There's also the slight problem that some of the potential solutions are not things that anyone who works at a school can ever recommend or suggest. A counselor can never, for ethical and liability reasons, suggest to punch back. By going to the counselor the "victim" is effectively limiting their own response options.


It's a horrible conundrum for kids, parents and school officials because there are no solutions and every action creates a reaction. Acknowledging both the pros and cons is important. Counselors can be helpful but are not a solution.

In the end, what's your advice to OP? What do you think is OP's best path to helping her DD get through this?

The one from page 8?

A lot depends on the grade and the size of the school.

The primary and very serious issue is her depression. She should see the counselor but not because of the bullying. That won't be fixed. Right now she needs to care about herself and you need to look at different schools. Going to the counselor will help with that because you are going to need the school's help finding a new school.

This summer I would suggest a longish trip. The type of trip she can come back from with a rebuilt persona. Hanging out with older but youngish family without you would also help. She has noone she feels she can trust or that understands her.

The hope is that over the summer she can rebuild her confidence and start with a clean slate

Short term, I would suggest embracing being the one that stands alone. Teach her to flail her elbows when they push her. One "accidental" whack to the nose will make them think twice. Come up with some cutting insults to use if needed. If she has dirt, now is the time to spill it. But otherwise advise her to stay as far away from them as possible. Join whatever it is that those girls look down upon (thats where her allies might be found) and hope she finds something she likes.

Other than that you have to leave her alone because you are also in danger of making things worse. She's in a chrysalis and needs to rebuild her ego. The child you knew is gone. Your purpose is now to help guide whatever 2.0 comes out of this.

Wait, you think this girl should change schools over this situation?? Middle and high school are hard, the social drama sucks. It's also really common for things to get really uncomfortable because teens are learning to navigate hard situations and set their own boundaries. What are you teaching your daughter if the takeaway from the way these mean girls are acting (which is bad but not yet egregious or suspendable actions) is to totally disrupt all that is familiar to her and run to another school? What happens when she goes through all that, then her next school turns out to have typical teen social dynamics too? Still change schools again? Running away isn't going to develop her coping skills any better.

DP.

While I don’t think changing schools is the right move (not yet anyway), this is a serious situation and needs to be addressed. The school hasn’t been named. But nearly every school counselor has by now been trained in restorative justice intervention strategies. To the op, could the school organize a restorative justice event to bring all those involved together and begin to effectuate healing here?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The problem, as the school adminstrator/counselor points out, is that for a host of practical reasons the counselor cannot and does not know what is going on. The kids on the other hand all do. Thus when a kid goes to see the counselor it's noticed. When questions, no matter how general or circumspect, start getting asked that's noticed as well.

Meanwhile the parents only find out after the damage has been done and are generally dealing with the immediate fall out from whatever straw was placed upon their camel's back.

Counselors are good for helping in the beginning, but the adults don't know what's percolating yet, and after the acceptance phase, but at that point it's usually too late and the issues are different.


There's also the slight problem that some of the potential solutions are not things that anyone who works at a school can ever recommend or suggest. A counselor can never, for ethical and liability reasons, suggest to punch back. By going to the counselor the "victim" is effectively limiting their own response options.


It's a horrible conundrum for kids, parents and school officials because there are no solutions and every action creates a reaction. Acknowledging both the pros and cons is important. Counselors can be helpful but are not a solution.

In the end, what's your advice to OP? What do you think is OP's best path to helping her DD get through this?

The one from page 8?

A lot depends on the grade and the size of the school.

The primary and very serious issue is her depression. She should see the counselor but not because of the bullying. That won't be fixed. Right now she needs to care about herself and you need to look at different schools. Going to the counselor will help with that because you are going to need the school's help finding a new school.

This summer I would suggest a longish trip. The type of trip she can come back from with a rebuilt persona. Hanging out with older but youngish family without you would also help. She has noone she feels she can trust or that understands her.

The hope is that over the summer she can rebuild her confidence and start with a clean slate

Short term, I would suggest embracing being the one that stands alone. Teach her to flail her elbows when they push her. One "accidental" whack to the nose will make them think twice. Come up with some cutting insults to use if needed. If she has dirt, now is the time to spill it. But otherwise advise her to stay as far away from them as possible. Join whatever it is that those girls look down upon (thats where her allies might be found) and hope she finds something she likes.

Other than that you have to leave her alone because you are also in danger of making things worse. She's in a chrysalis and needs to rebuild her ego. The child you knew is gone. Your purpose is now to help guide whatever 2.0 comes out of this.

Wait, you think this girl should change schools over this situation?? Middle and high school are hard, the social drama sucks. It's also really common for things to get really uncomfortable because teens are learning to navigate hard situations and set their own boundaries. What are you teaching your daughter if the takeaway from the way these mean girls are acting (which is bad but not yet egregious or suspendable actions) is to totally disrupt all that is familiar to her and run to another school? What happens when she goes through all that, then her next school turns out to have typical teen social dynamics too? Still change schools again? Running away isn't going to develop her coping skills any better.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The problem, as the school adminstrator/counselor points out, is that for a host of practical reasons the counselor cannot and does not know what is going on. The kids on the other hand all do. Thus when a kid goes to see the counselor it's noticed. When questions, no matter how general or circumspect, start getting asked that's noticed as well.

Meanwhile the parents only find out after the damage has been done and are generally dealing with the immediate fall out from whatever straw was placed upon their camel's back.

Counselors are good for helping in the beginning, but the adults don't know what's percolating yet, and after the acceptance phase, but at that point it's usually too late and the issues are different.


There's also the slight problem that some of the potential solutions are not things that anyone who works at a school can ever recommend or suggest. A counselor can never, for ethical and liability reasons, suggest to punch back. By going to the counselor the "victim" is effectively limiting their own response options.


It's a horrible conundrum for kids, parents and school officials because there are no solutions and every action creates a reaction. Acknowledging both the pros and cons is important. Counselors can be helpful but are not a solution.

In the end, what's your advice to OP? What do you think is OP's best path to helping her DD get through this?

The one from page 8?

A lot depends on the grade and the size of the school.

The primary and very serious issue is her depression. She should see the counselor but not because of the bullying. That won't be fixed. Right now she needs to care about herself and you need to look at different schools. Going to the counselor will help with that because you are going to need the school's help finding a new school.

This summer I would suggest a longish trip. The type of trip she can come back from with a rebuilt persona. Hanging out with older but youngish family without you would also help. She has noone she feels she can trust or that understands her.

The hope is that over the summer she can rebuild her confidence and start with a clean slate

Short term, I would suggest embracing being the one that stands alone. Teach her to flail her elbows when they push her. One "accidental" whack to the nose will make them think twice. Come up with some cutting insults to use if needed. If she has dirt, now is the time to spill it. But otherwise advise her to stay as far away from them as possible. Join whatever it is that those girls look down upon (thats where her allies might be found) and hope she finds something she likes.

Other than that you have to leave her alone because you are also in danger of making things worse. She's in a chrysalis and needs to rebuild her ego. The child you knew is gone. Your purpose is now to help guide whatever 2.0 comes out of this.

Wait, you think this girl should change schools over this situation?? Middle and high school are hard, the social drama sucks. It's also really common for things to get really uncomfortable because teens are learning to navigate hard situations and set their own boundaries. What are you teaching your daughter if the takeaway from the way these mean girls are acting (which is bad but not yet egregious or suspendable actions) is to totally disrupt all that is familiar to her and run to another school? What happens when she goes through all that, then her next school turns out to have typical teen social dynamics too? Still change schools again? Running away isn't going to develop her coping skills any better.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The problem, as the school adminstrator/counselor points out, is that for a host of practical reasons the counselor cannot and does not know what is going on. The kids on the other hand all do. Thus when a kid goes to see the counselor it's noticed. When questions, no matter how general or circumspect, start getting asked that's noticed as well.

Meanwhile the parents only find out after the damage has been done and are generally dealing with the immediate fall out from whatever straw was placed upon their camel's back.

Counselors are good for helping in the beginning, but the adults don't know what's percolating yet, and after the acceptance phase, but at that point it's usually too late and the issues are different.


There's also the slight problem that some of the potential solutions are not things that anyone who works at a school can ever recommend or suggest. A counselor can never, for ethical and liability reasons, suggest to punch back. By going to the counselor the "victim" is effectively limiting their own response options.


It's a horrible conundrum for kids, parents and school officials because there are no solutions and every action creates a reaction. Acknowledging both the pros and cons is important. Counselors can be helpful but are not a solution.

In the end, what's your advice to OP? What do you think is OP's best path to helping her DD get through this?

The one from page 8?

A lot depends on the grade and the size of the school.

The primary and very serious issue is her depression. She should see the counselor but not because of the bullying. That won't be fixed. Right now she needs to care about herself and you need to look at different schools. Going to the counselor will help with that because you are going to need the school's help finding a new school.

This summer I would suggest a longish trip. The type of trip she can come back from with a rebuilt persona. Hanging out with older but youngish family without you would also help. She has noone she feels she can trust or that understands her.

The hope is that over the summer she can rebuild her confidence and start with a clean slate

Short term, I would suggest embracing being the one that stands alone. Teach her to flail her elbows when they push her. One "accidental" whack to the nose will make them think twice. Come up with some cutting insults to use if needed. If she has dirt, now is the time to spill it. But otherwise advise her to stay as far away from them as possible. Join whatever it is that those girls look down upon (thats where her allies might be found) and hope she finds something she likes.

Other than that you have to leave her alone because you are also in danger of making things worse. She's in a chrysalis and needs to rebuild her ego. The child you knew is gone. Your purpose is now to help guide whatever 2.0 comes out of this.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The problem, as the school adminstrator/counselor points out, is that for a host of practical reasons the counselor cannot and does not know what is going on. The kids on the other hand all do. Thus when a kid goes to see the counselor it's noticed. When questions, no matter how general or circumspect, start getting asked that's noticed as well.

Meanwhile the parents only find out after the damage has been done and are generally dealing with the immediate fall out from whatever straw was placed upon their camel's back.

Counselors are good for helping in the beginning, but the adults don't know what's percolating yet, and after the acceptance phase, but at that point it's usually too late and the issues are different.


There's also the slight problem that some of the potential solutions are not things that anyone who works at a school can ever recommend or suggest. A counselor can never, for ethical and liability reasons, suggest to punch back. By going to the counselor the "victim" is effectively limiting their own response options.


It's a horrible conundrum for kids, parents and school officials because there are no solutions and every action creates a reaction. Acknowledging both the pros and cons is important. Counselors can be helpful but are not a solution.

In the end, what's your advice to OP? What do you think is OP's best path to helping her DD get through this?

Anonymous wrote:The problem, as the school adminstrator/counselor points out, is that for a host of practical reasons the counselor cannot and does not know what is going on. The kids on the other hand all do. Thus when a kid goes to see the counselor it's noticed. When questions, no matter how general or circumspect, start getting asked that's noticed as well.

Meanwhile the parents only find out after the damage has been done and are generally dealing with the immediate fall out from whatever straw was placed upon their camel's back.

Counselors are good for helping in the beginning, but the adults don't know what's percolating yet, and after the acceptance phase, but at that point it's usually too late and the issues are different.


There's also the slight problem that some of the potential solutions are not things that anyone who works at a school can ever recommend or suggest. A counselor can never, for ethical and liability reasons, suggest to punch back. By going to the counselor the "victim" is effectively limiting their own response options.


It's a horrible conundrum for kids, parents and school officials because there are no solutions and every action creates a reaction. Acknowledging both the pros and cons is important. Counselors can be helpful but are not a solution.