Anonymous wrote:The issue is the system pressures kids, and they are still kids, into making a "binding" decision.
Its a total bait and switch for a very large percentage of the students who apply ED.
Throughout their sophomore and junior year they are told it is only for those who have a clear first choice and would be happy to attend. Then when senior year roles around they are told instead that it is the path for some schools (Tulane is one of those who admits almost no regular decision candidates) and that its actually their best chance way to lock in one of their target schools and they should commit and give up on their reach/dream schools.
Yes, it works out for some, but others end up with regrets.

Perhaps your kid is not ready for college, especially a T25-30 university if they cannot understand what it means to have a "top choice" and be willing to commit to it. Especially with you as a parent helping them. I mean really, if you can't understand that and that choosing to ED to a not top 1 choice means you are "giving up on your dream schools" then perhaps you need to grow up before attending college.

If you choose to use ED as a tool to anywhere except your Tippy top choice, then you must live with the choice. Not that difficult for a 17 yo to understand, especially one with a resume for a T25 school (supposedly)

Anonymous wrote:Here is the thing that seems like people are willfully ignoring in the ED argument. I agree BC does not offer merit ED, nor do they really offer merit in RD. That is also true of HYP and many other T20 schools. If you can’t afford it in ED you can’t afford it.

But there are a significant number of schools below that tier that do offer real merit aid, and also have an ED round. That feels like the spot where wealthy families have a distinct advantage to donut hole families. It is at that tier that it starts to feel like the benefit is designed toward the wealthy.

Why yes, if your parents choose to save fully for college, then you have some advantages. That is life. If you need to compare merit offers, then ED is not for you. It's not forced on you.

And hint, most donut hole families could have chosen to save if they wanted to. When they went from $150K/year to 200K as a family they could have saved 90%-100% for college for a few years and been set. It was a choice. Also most in the 30-70 range give excellent merit to many kids, and your highly qualified kid will get merit and admission in EA/RD and have many choices, so go that route if you need to compare. Just like most people do who haven't saved $400K for college.
Yeah, someone who has saved has advantages, just like everything else in life

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:Posters who complain about ED here want the cake and eat it too. What's why they're whining.

What does have your cake and eat it too mean in this context?

Your cake = get to ED and enjoy slight bump in admission chances

Eat it too = get to shop for merit after accepted ED

I happen to think there are more issues than the money issue. That’s the only one which will get people to stop and think.

Why are there more issues? Use it for what it is. If your kid has a top choice and is ready to commit, then apply ED. If NOT, then use EA/RD and compare choices/visit campuses again to make a choice.

But it's not hard for a 17 yo to have a top choice and know what they want in Sept/Oct of senior year, if you have done your research.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:That’s it. ED is for kids who have a clear first choice. Some kids know that by September if their senior year. Hopefully they have visited the school, researched financial aid, etc. by then. The kids who are less than 100% committed to any choice should not ED, just because they’re chasing prestige and want to avoid the unpredictability of the RD lottery. It may be hard to have to wait a few more months for a college decision. It harder to have buyer’s remorse and be enrolled at a college chosen for the wrong reasons.

Many don’t have a clear first choice winner and still go ED anyway - that’s the issue. They are just trying to figure something out so they don’t get left out.

Well that is just stupid and you cannot fix stupid (even among people who apparently think they are material for T20 schools).

It's not an issue for smart people. Only for people who are too dumb to understand it.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Abolish ED, limit everyone to 10 applications, limit SAT/ACT sittings to 2, get rid of the “commitment” system for Division III athletics, and maybe that can go some ways in making the process the way it was circa 1990- not perfect but much more transparent (even without internet!) and less stressful.

Nope!! ED is a good thing, and helps ensure schools fill their freshman class exactly (not over, not under---both are bad for the school for the next 4 years)
If you don't like ED, don't do it. Just like you don't buy a BMW if you can only afford a KIA. It's a choice

It’s amazing how much all of you get off on thinking the people objecting aren’t as wealthy as you. You are showing your true and nasty colors.

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Anonymous wrote:I can hold two thoughts in my head at once. I can recognize that people should honor their ED commitments, and I can recognize that colleges are the ones who gain the most by filling a significant % of the class through ED. The vast majority of students do not benefit from this system.

Majority of students also don't benefit from financial aid and don't benefit from having hooks. Should schools eliminate all these? ED is fine, just like giving needy families financial aid is fine. No system is fair to everyone. I cannot afford a Maserati or Porsche and am totally at peace with my inability.

I’m not in favor of systems that encourage 17 years to lock themselves into paying $$$$ without considered choice.

NPC. NPC. NPC. You just don’t like what the NPC says you owe because you don’t manage your money wisely.

No, I can afford full pay. I can also afford the Porsche mentioned earlier. I just happen to think kids should actually spend thoughtful time considering their options than what I see in real life with the ED push everywhere. In real life, tons of parents with older kids have also told me that think there are tons of issues with the increased push for ED. It’s only on DCUM that I see it get defended as vehemently as it does.

Then don't do ED. Nobody is forcing it on you and your kid.

The only issue with ED is if you use it on a school that isn't your TOP CHOICE. And that is a you issues, not an ED issue inherently. ED is for exactly that---you have a top choice and are happy to commit.

Anonymous wrote:I feel like posters whining about ED aren't willing to do the work for each school's NPC then compare. It's neither rocket science nor mysterious. You know ahead of time which school will give you the most aid, and you factor that into the decision-making process. The formula does NOT CHANGE whether ED or RD.

If your child doesn't have a clear first choice, why resent mine who does?

What they resent is not having "choices". They want to search merit at 20+ schools while still having the advantage of eD at a T25 school, in case their snowflake doesn't get great merit at a school in the 25-50 range, they will find a way to pay $90K for the T20. They want all advantages and that's not how it works.

Anonymous wrote:Abolish ED, limit everyone to 10 applications, limit SAT/ACT sittings to 2, get rid of the “commitment” system for Division III athletics, and maybe that can go some ways in making the process the way it was circa 1990- not perfect but much more transparent (even without internet!) and less stressful.

Nope!! ED is a good thing, and helps ensure schools fill their freshman class exactly (not over, not under---both are bad for the school for the next 4 years)
If you don't like ED, don't do it. Just like you don't buy a BMW if you can only afford a KIA. It's a choice

The “shop around” parents are just high income or high asset who want private school at a discount.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:I can hold two thoughts in my head at once. I can recognize that people should honor their ED commitments, and I can recognize that colleges are the ones who gain the most by filling a significant % of the class through ED. The vast majority of students do not benefit from this system.

Majority of students also don't benefit from financial aid and don't benefit from having hooks. Should schools eliminate all these? ED is fine, just like giving needy families financial aid is fine. No system is fair to everyone. I cannot afford a Maserati or Porsche and am totally at peace with my inability.

I’m not in favor of systems that encourage 17 years to lock themselves into paying $$$$ without considered choice.

No one is forcing you to do that. It's a choice. But for those willing to accept the NPC, they get to do ED. Anyone can do it.

Hint: what you mean is "I will pay $90 K for Harvard if my kid doesn't get in anywhere else that I consider good enough with good merit" So you can afford it, you just want to compare MERIT , and that is not part of ED.

Exactly right. And like a PP said, merit has nothing to do with need. It's parents looking for additional discounts. If they want to, that's fine. But it's not Ed's fault.

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Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:I can hold two thoughts in my head at once. I can recognize that people should honor their ED commitments, and I can recognize that colleges are the ones who gain the most by filling a significant % of the class through ED. The vast majority of students do not benefit from this system.

My student benefited. Like many she had an application appropriate for a top 10-20 school but none of the hooks, not a legacy. She applied ED to a school that isn’t known for valuing legacy, got in, and got almost exactly as much financial aid (a lot) as the estimate suggested. The system worked for her.

Because the system worked for your kid( it must be a good system?

What part of you can compare financial aid offers in advance using the NPC do you not understand? There is a system in place for comparing offers in advance, excluding merit. That means students who need financial aid are not disadvantaged by this system. If the NPC shows no aid, you get no aid whether ED, EA, or RD.

This! ED simply means you have a clear first choice, factoring in anticipated financial aid. We applied ED and received aid that corresponded to the NPC estimate. If a kid doesn't have a first choice or wants to drop tiers to chase merit, that's a matter of priorities. Merit, by definition, is independent of need.

There's nothing unfair about rewarding kids who've done their financial aid homework and are willing to commit to a given school. Anyone can do their homework and proceed accordingly.

+1

ALso, for those "searching for merit", they apparently are not smart enough to realize that T25 schools rarely give merit, so it doesn't matter when you apply. If you cannot pay $90K, you still cannot pay $90K in April. Nothing will change with EA/RD.

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:I can hold two thoughts in my head at once. I can recognize that people should honor their ED commitments, and I can recognize that colleges are the ones who gain the most by filling a significant % of the class through ED. The vast majority of students do not benefit from this system.

My student benefited. Like many she had an application appropriate for a top 10-20 school but none of the hooks, not a legacy. She applied ED to a school that isn’t known for valuing legacy, got in, and got almost exactly as much financial aid (a lot) as the estimate suggested. The system worked for her.

Because the system worked for your kid( it must be a good system?

What part of you can compare financial aid offers in advance using the NPC do you not understand? There is a system in place for comparing offers in advance, excluding merit. That means students who need financial aid are not disadvantaged by this system. If the NPC shows no aid, you get no aid whether ED, EA, or RD.

+1000

And most schools where ED really matters (T25-30) do NOT give merit (beyond 10-20 students), so the NPC is same for ED/RD/EA.
Everyone can choose to do ED. If you don't want to, then you don't get the "perks of ED" which is knowing where your kid is going by Dec 15.

Exactly. And if your kid doesn't want to risk ED by applying to a high reach then has regrets later them's the breaks. You apply ED because you have a clear first choice and understand the financial aid available. If you're applying to a school ED that really isn't your first choice, then you shouldn't be applying ED. Leave that to the kids who do have clear first choices.

Anonymous wrote:I’m interested to know the % of DCUM posters who had children who applied ED? And were accepted? You all seem very invested in keeping this crappy system.

My kid didn't get in ED, they were deferred and then rejected at a T10. Happily attending their 2nd choice

But Still like the ED option. For kids who are committed and have a top choice, it's an excellent tool.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I can hold two thoughts in my head at once. I can recognize that people should honor their ED commitments, and I can recognize that colleges are the ones who gain the most by filling a significant % of the class through ED. The vast majority of students do not benefit from this system.

Majority of students also don't benefit from financial aid and don't benefit from having hooks. Should schools eliminate all these? ED is fine, just like giving needy families financial aid is fine. No system is fair to everyone. I cannot afford a Maserati or Porsche and am totally at peace with my inability.

I’m not in favor of systems that encourage 17 years to lock themselves into paying $$$$ without considered choice.

No one is forcing you to do that. It's a choice. But for those willing to accept the NPC, they get to do ED. Anyone can do it.

Hint: what you mean is "I will pay $90 K for Harvard if my kid doesn't get in anywhere else that I consider good enough with good merit" So you can afford it, you just want to compare MERIT , and that is not part of ED.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I can hold two thoughts in my head at once. I can recognize that people should honor their ED commitments, and I can recognize that colleges are the ones who gain the most by filling a significant % of the class through ED. The vast majority of students do not benefit from this system.

My student benefited. Like many she had an application appropriate for a top 10-20 school but none of the hooks, not a legacy. She applied ED to a school that isn’t known for valuing legacy, got in, and got almost exactly as much financial aid (a lot) as the estimate suggested. The system worked for her.

Because the system worked for your kid( it must be a good system?

What part of you can compare financial aid offers in advance using the NPC do you not understand? There is a system in place for comparing offers in advance, excluding merit. That means students who need financial aid are not disadvantaged by this system. If the NPC shows no aid, you get no aid whether ED, EA, or RD.

+1000

And most schools where ED really matters (T25-30) do NOT give merit (beyond 10-20 students), so the NPC is same for ED/RD/EA.
Everyone can choose to do ED. If you don't want to, then you don't get the "perks of ED" which is knowing where your kid is going by Dec 15.